help with clause search

+PAX

Greetings all! I've had Logos 5 for Mac for a while. Unfortunately the tutorial videos aren't ready yet, and I still haven't had much time to sit down and fiddle with it. So in advance, my apologies if this is a real basic question.

Is there a way to search for the phrase "work of the Lord,"? It's a common phrase in latin: opus Dei. I thought of the clause search because sometimes the same idea is used in the plural: works of the Lord or opera Dei. It would make sense to search for it in Greek: ergon tou Theo. But how?

The only way I can figure out how to do it is to do a Bible Word Study on the Greek verb. But there's a whole lot more info there than what I'm interested in for this particular inquiry.

Thanks for the help! God bless!

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Dave Hooton

A Bible Search is best for a phrase. So type "work of the lord" (with quotes) and tick Match All word forms in the menu. Most of the results are in the OT, so we need to work on the Greek phrase. The article is not always present so we need to search for "ergon" & "theo". The lemmas will give the best results so we have a Morph Search query:

lemma:ἔργον BEFORE 2 WORD lemma:θεός --> a separation of 2 WORDS allows for the article in between.

But "lord" is more literally κύριος, so search for both:

lemma:ἔργον BEFORE 2 WORD (lemma:κύριος, lemma:θεός) --> the comma separated list allows any of the enclosed words to follow ergon.

Milford Charles Murray

And Peace to you, Br. David! *smile*

David Hooton, Volunteer, is the person to go to for Logos advice and information. Always heed him well!

To supplement what Dave has shared with you, I just did a search on "Opus Dei" (in quotes!) ...

Just for the pure "joy" of it, I'll be looking up many of the references in the next couple of days....

Welcome indeed to the Logos Forums where volunteers from around the world attempt to help and support and inform one another .... *smile*

Br. David

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/523688#Comment_523688

+PAX

Greetings again! Many thanks for the rapid replies!! I was finally just able to try this out. FANTASTIC!

However, I'm a little puzzled by the results of doing the Greek search. The results are substantially smaller. That of course could (and I do mean could) be easily explained. However, just as an example, the reference in 1Cor 15:58 is missing from the Greek search. Looking at that verse myself, it's clear that the required words are there: ergon and kurios. So... what's not working correctly?

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/524342#Comment_524342

"haec locutus sum vobis ut in me pacem habeatis in mundo pressuram habetis sed confidite ego vici mundum" John 16:33

I don't know what part of the world you are in; however I'm not able to answer you tonight, but will tackle your question tomorrow...

Perhaps some other will notice it and give you a great answer sooner! *smile*

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/524342#Comment_524342

However, I'm a little puzzled by the results of doing the Greek search. The results are substantially smaller. That of course could (and I do mean could) be easily explained. However, just as an example, the reference in 1Cor 15:58 is missing from the Greek search.

The Greek Morph search lemma:ἔργον BEFORE 2 WORD (lemma:κύριος, lemma:θεός) includes 1 Cor 15:58 in every Greek bible I have! Please illustrate your Greek search.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/524342#Comment_524342

However, just as an example, the reference in 1Cor 15:58 is missing from the Greek search. Looking at that verse myself, it's clear that the required words are there: ergon and kurios. So... what's not working correctly?

It does appear in the results if you allow 3 words between them as opposed to 2 so there is a separation issue here.

It's as though the number of separating words in the English translation is being factored in here. If you do the search with 2 intervening words in NA27 1 Cor 15:58 does appear in the results.

I'm just going out so can't investigate it further at the moment but hopefully this will help

Graham

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/524353#Comment_524353

It does appear in the results if you allow 3 words between them as opposed to 2 so there is a separation issue here.

It's as though the number of separating words in the English translation is being factored in here.

If you search a Reverse Interlinear like ESV, the separation is determined by the English manuscript --> "work of the lord" has 'of' as an extra word, unlike a Greek bible.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/524356#Comment_524356

If you search a Reverse Interlinear like ESV, the separation is determined by the English manuscript --> "work of the lord" has 'of' as an extra word, unlike a Greek bible.

Thanks David - I wasn't aware of that.

Graham

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/524387#Comment_524387

Consider the phrase "ἐν τίνι" which has 10 occurrences in a GNT bible (NA27, LGNTI). The phrase search gets 4 results in ESV**, and not because the Greek word order is different. To get close use ἐν BEFORE 0-1 WORD τίνι; which omits Lk 18:2. When you use ἐν BEFORE 0-2 WORD τίνι it picks up Lk 18:2 (because of the extra English word) but also picks up Lk 11:1 because of the changed word order of the Greek.

For serious work, therefore, use a Greek Bible.

** I wonder if this might be a bug because it is equivalent to ἐν BEFORE 0 WORD τίνι