Sometimes Logos makes me sad...

It does feel that way now, even on the phone. I've been presented with the passive-aggressively toned "That's the best price available to you" on more than one occasion (don't feel like calling in anymore...just evaluate the electronic price from now on).

I read in another thread that perhaps sales has a new mandate that doesn't give them flexibility anymore?! If that's true, they're "salespeople" in the Best Buy sense, not the real sense.

Perhaps the forums ruined it? I started calling in when the veterans said you could sweet talk sales and get a personalized offer. If everyone does that now, they're not going to have much in the way of margins.

I didn't know You could negotiate on small purchases. I made a $300 purchase + shipping (different items, including a base-package upgrade (Verbum+)) on December 3. 2013 with no problems. After Christmas things started getting difficult. I was promised a price of $16.xx on phone (can't remember the cents) on December 24. but couldn't pay at once (in the aftermath I should have and could have) so today the quote says $18.71 for the book, and it's public domain and they require me to add another book (so as a reply I just emailed a $70 book) - the negotiation was also about two more books that I had added to the open quote after Christmas. I have to wonder how come they couldn't give the first price anylonger. It's pretty much for a book from the mid-19th century.

Bruce, how often are those who call in going to accept the regular price and still make the purchase? If there would no longer be a way to get a lower price most people who have been negotiating would no-longer buy anything but pre-pub and CP:

Bruce Dunning said:

Why should people who call in get a better deal than people who shop on the web?

I understand your frustration.  I've had good and bad experiences with sales reps.  Today was a great experience, the guy was helpful and I'll definitely be calling him back in March, though he said he would be calling me to touch base on the particular purchase I wanted to make (that's how helpful he was).

Then there's the other side of the coin, sales rep that are not so helpful for whatever reason (bad day, bad mood, attitude, etc.? lol) and they tell you the line from the movie Taken: "The price is the price..." LOL so either you buy or you don't...LOL...at which point, I ask for the name and I call again and asked to speak to another sales rep except "X" sales rep.  I don't have to give details as to why I don't want to speak to "X" sales rep...LOL...I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

NOW, there's is yet another side of the story.  Logos used to almost every time give 25% off, now they've lowered their discounts to sometimes a mere 10% (or even 5%) on some items.  I guess it has to do with publishers's rules and royalties and what not.  Oh well, so far, I'm happy with what I've got and whatever I need, I know that sometimes it's worth calling sometimes is not, but if it's something I really need, I buy it anyway---after calling several reps to see which one offered me the better deal.

One that used to be good at giving you 25% off if it was available (and he'd tell you if the item had a discount or not) was Mr. Jim Ray.  I remember him denying a discount once and he apologized for not having a discount because he said it had something to do with the publisher.  I think it was a Zondervan product.  He was a great sales rep.  Now I go to Maggie or Darren (or Darrel) can't remember exactly.  They are both good - some times I go to Dave Kaplan - used to go to Santiago, but he's manager now, so it's hard to get a hold of him.

Anyway, patience and call again and speak to someone else...LOL...knock and you might receive.

DAL

My first experience with Logos customer service was with Jim-Ray in June 2007 when I bought Scholar's Silver.  From that point on he was the only sales person I worked with.  Now I will sometimes call and other times purchase online.  Just yesterday I contacted sales and was very satisfied.  However, sometimes I have felt like a potential sale instead of a real person.  I never felt this way with Jim-Ray.

In terms of capability and selection of digital resources there is no question of how superior Logos is to all the competitors. Same goes for the digital quality of the resources they produce. Furthermore there are now a lot of resources: Books, databases, video content, audio content and so on, which are exclusive to Logos. The company is no longer simply a provider of content, but a large scale publisher and educator as well. As an example, just look at what Logos is doing with their new Mobile education. I am completely amazed. 

Having said that, Logos is not superior in all ways. The desktop software is way too slow if you do not have the cutting edge hardware (although the mobile software is coming along nicely). Publishing bible translations in foreign languages do not seem to be a priority at all, even though this is by far the most important book in any theological library. Promised features take years to arrive. Users are badgered to by upgrades all the time. And I could go on. Most importantly, Logos is really expensive, compared to many other companies in the same field. For example a different company is now selling the NICOT series for $350, compared to $900 in Logos.

Here is the bottom line: If you are not satisfied with this, you are free to use some other software - at least legally, and in theory. But for most of us, not in practice. I can not afford to re-purchase every resource I have ever bought in Logos. (And I am really a little guy in this game, some users have spent a real fortune.) Well, I guess that I could make a switch, and then just purchase the resources that I actually use, and leave the rest behind. But I would still have had to make a considerable purchase. That is just not going to happen. I am almost irrevocably invested in Logos, and that is a weapon that can be used against me. Right now I really do want to stay with Logos anyway, because Logos truly is superior, but at the same time I recognise that I am not really free to consider an alternative. That nullifies the rules of free market competition.

Sakarias.

PS. From these forums I get the feeling that it is immoral not to be grateful to everything Logos has done for us. Either we are not showing brotherly love or we are attacking the right of Logos to make a living from this business. That may be well and true, but I feel that Logos should be grateful to us, the users as well. We have spent a lot of money on the software, as well as brought new customers to the company, and ultimately we are the ones who have made this all happen.

I completely ignored the latest phone-only sale because I'm tired of hearing lists of commentary sets and such, expensive author sets etc. - why can't Logos use the information from the big user survey they made earlier in 2013 - I told that I'm not interested in commentaries (even so I have been buying commentaries after that, but that has been at my discretion).
Individual volumes are much more interesting. If I'm for example looking at a commentary set or author set, I practically always go for one, two or three individual volumes. Individual volumes are extremely rarely on phone-only sale or weekly sale with coupon-code. They do show up in monthly sale and volumes from some sets show up in daily twitter deals with coupon-codes.

I have another software: Accordance. But they offer so few things that I only make a purchase about once a year. Their regular prices were not the reason why I bought it, I bought it because I got a set used really cheap. Later Logos offered that set on a sale twice. It would have been +/- 0 to just stick with Logos and buy the set on one of those sales, but I would have missed out on two items that are offered only by Accordance.
I will however look and see whether Logos or Accordance will be the better option for New Testament Greek work, and buy BDAG and NA29 or UBS5 in the best software of the two. Accordance seems to have BDAG on a sale more often - but there's not much price difference compared to Logos:

mike said:

so now I don't call anymore because its unpleasant, though they they're trying to FISH us with doing sale-phone only.. If I do make purchases, it'll just be online.

plus, I just try to look resources outside Logos first.. cheaper.

I'm sure Accordance isn't cheaper than Logos, but I'm not looking for the cheapest platform and store. I don't think there are more options if You want to use the best platform. And extremely few items are not sold by neither Logos nor Accordance but by some other competitor!

Bruce Dunning said:

I can understand your frustration Paul. Personally I would prefer that the price listed was the "best price" other than when special sales are offered. Why should people who call in get a better deal than people who shop on the web?

Well, I suppose because they go to the trouble to call in and to negotiate.  It is called capitalism.  Rarely does a seller list the lowest margin of profit he will take as the regular price.  You see this most often in the automobile market, but it is pretty much true in many markets.  Regular customers are often given a better price.  It usually produces more business, and is a way to build loyalty.  A seller is under no obligation to give a one time buyer the same price as a regular customer, and is not too wise if he does.

Sakarias Ingolfsson said:

In terms of capability and selection of digital resources there is no question of how superior Logos is to all the competitors. Same goes for the digital quality of the resources they produce. Furthermore there are now a lot of resources: Books, databases, video content, audio content and so on, which are exclusive to Logos. The company is no longer simply a provider of content, but a large scale publisher and educator as well. As an example, just look at what Logos is doing with their new Mobile education. I am completely amazed. 

Having said that, Logos is not superior in all ways. The desktop software is way too slow if you do not have the cutting edge hardware (although the mobile software is coming along nicely). Publishing bible translations in foreign languages do not seem to be a priority at all, even though this is by far the most important book in any theological library. Promised features take years to arrive. Users are badgered to by upgrades all the time. And I could go on. Most importantly, Logos is really expensive, compared to many other companies in the same field. For example a different company is now selling the NICOT series for $350, compared to $900 in Logos.

Here is the bottom line: If you are not satisfied with this, you are free to use some other software - at least legally, and in theory. But for most of us, not in practice. I can not afford to re-purchase every resource I have ever bought in Logos. (And I am really a little guy in this game, some users have spent a real fortune.) Well, I guess that I could make a switch, and then just purchase the resources that I actually use, and leave the rest behind. But I would still have had to make a considerable purchase. That is just not going to happen. I am almost irrevocably invested in Logos, and that is a weapon that can be used against me. Right now I really do want to stay with Logos anyway, because Logos truly is superior, but at the same time I recognise that I am not really free to consider an alternative. That nullifies the rules of free market competition.

Sakarias.

PS. From these forums I get the feeling that it is immoral not to be grateful to everything Logos has done for us. Either we are not showing brotherly love or we are attacking the right of Logos to make a living from this business. That may be well and true, but I feel that Logos should be grateful to us, the users as well. We have spent a lot of money on the software, as well as brought new customers to the company, and ultimately we are the ones who have made this all happen.

It is notoriously difficult to make money selling Christian books - just ask any author of Christian books (many donate the small cheque for royalties they receive to funds for teaching student Pastors - John Stott was a good example of this). Logos Bible software is unquestionably the "Rolls Royce" of Bible software systems. They have a good team that works hard to provide us with an excellent service. Their technical support team is outstanding. They deserve a decent wage and a sense of job security. As with anything else, you get what you pay for, and I for one do not mind paying a little extra for an excellent product. I wish them all God's blessings, and hope they achieve all their business targets in the year ahead.

Cadallac, James, Cadallac.   Within days of L4's introduction I had compared it to the Jag you leave in the garage when you go for groceries.  

But Logos self-identified as a Cadallac and continues to do so.  I suppose in England Rolls parts are not an issue. But we see Rolls on the large wrecker trucks going down to Phoenix ... can't go very far without the right parts.

I don't think Cadallac salemen 'deal' a lot.  Certainly not like the VW guys.

mike said:

not unless you have academic discount. It always have the lowest price

I would generally agree with you but just yesterday I got a phone call from an ambitious young man in sales who offered me a deal lower than the academic price. It was on the Baker Exegetical Commentary. He beat it by $8.

I did not bite.