Heard this??? And.....
I was talking to a neighbor and he mentioned Rosh Shanah as being when Moses was born? He also mentioned something about Moses as a "type" of Christ.
I did a little searching but did not see anything. These two things above are not really important to me just wondering.
I was more thinking about......something else. I know this is theological but Im just not sure how to really search this....
Wandering for 40 years God judged with snakes or other times .....is it good or bad? one i think bad...God judged .....but...to live Christ to die gain....
This might be a both answer depends on what is needed Law or Gospel...
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Moses as type of Jesus - very common idea. Do a search Moses NEAR type ... Pulpit Commentary on Exodus is one example; or see The Life of Moses by Gregory of Nyssa ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I was more thinking about......something else. I know this is theological but Im just not sure how to really search this.... Wandering for 40 years God judged with snakes or other times .....is it good or bad? one i think bad...God judged .....but...to live Christ to die gain.... This might be a both answer depends on what is needed Law or Gospel...
Hello William
I think first we need to look at reason for the judgment of God, and that he could have just killed all that had sinned. But I see in his Grace God Chose to let them live as an example to others that would follow. God has given all of us his Grace to believe and have life, but when we rebel there is a judgment to follow.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
But the world has rejected him and is lost.
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William Bingham said:
I was talking to a neighbor and he mentioned Rosh Shanah as being when Moses was born?
Apparently (according to some stuff I've found on websites and in Logos) the Talmud says it's the anniversary of when Adam was born (created), though I cannot locate exactly where it says that in the Talmud.
From The Messianic Bible Study Collection by Arnold Fruchtenbaum (Logos link):
9. Legends of Rosh Hashanah
There are various legends concerning the Feast of Rosh Hashanah or Trumpets: the creation of the world occurred on this day as did the creation of Adam; Adam fell on this day; Cain was born with a twin sister and Abel was born with a twin sister; on this day both Cain and Abel offered their sacrifices; Cain killed Abel; the flood dried up; Abraham was born and died on this day and the same thing is true of Isaac and Jacob; on this day Isaac was offered up; Jacob arrived in Bethel; Sarah gave birth and so did Rebecca, Rachel, and Hannah; Joseph was liberated from prison; Samuel was born; the first Temple was dedicated; Elisha was born; and the sacrifices were resumed after the Temple was rebuilt.
Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, The Messianic Bible Study Collection, vol. 118 (Tustin, CA: Ariel Ministries, 1983), 12.
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Moses as a type of Christ:
A "type" as you may likely know, is a prefiguration: a person or event or thing that predates another and has parallel/symbolic elements that show the later one (the anti-type) as fulfilling the former in some sense. So for example David, as the King of Israel, is a type of Christ (King of the Jews).
There are several things about Moses that are recapitulated later in Christ:
Moses was saved (in Egypt) from an evil king (Pharaoh) who wanted to kill all the boy babies. Jesus' life was spared when his parents fled with him (to Egypt) after being informed in a dream that an evil king (Herod) wanted to kill him.
Moses was the great leader of Israel and its mediator. Jesus is our Lord and mediator.
Moses was the great Lawgiver of Israel. Jesus gave us a "new commandment" (love one another), summed up the Law and the Prophets in the two great commandments: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart..." and "Love your neighbor as yourself." He reinterpreted the Law in the Sermon on the Mount ("You have heard it said...but I tell you..."). And he fulfilled the Law.
There was a writer named John Jortin back in the 18th century who documented nearly 40 such correspondences between Moses and Christ. I've put them together into a Word document, which can be built into a Personal Book in Logos if you wish. http://community.logos.com/forums/t/79701.aspx
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You asked about this: "Wandering for 40 years God judged with snakes or other times .....is it good or bad? one i think bad...God judged .....but...to live Christ to die gain...."
I think your query revolves around the paradox: if "to die is gain" then did the people who died in God's judgment thus gain somehow by dying? I think we have to realize Paul (in Phil 1:21) was talking about himself, or perhaps by extension anyone who dies "in Christ"; he was not talking about those whose death was brought about by God's judgment. There is no guarantee they will be with Christ in the afterlife.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question. If so, please elaborate a bit.
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Everyone agrees on building a sub-forum space with "Rosie's Answers to you, in less than 5 sec"?
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Paolo russo said:
Everyone agrees on building a sub-forum space with "Rosie's Answers to you, in less than 5 sec"?
Ha ha! Come on, it took me several hours this time. I had to do all that copying and pasting from an OCR text (20 pages or so) and fix all the typos and formatting, and look up all the Greek text on Perseus and other places to figure out how it was supposed to be spelled. I'd never be able to keep up if there were a whole forum devoted to this service. I just do it when I feel like it, usually when I'll learn something myself from it. The "Moses as a type of Christ" question really got me digging and it was fun! [:)]
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sorry to ask - but does not this thread break the forum guidlines mentioned in the opening post
Shalom Kevin
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Kevin A Lewis said:
sorry to ask - but does not this thread break the forum guidlines mentioned in the opening post
Shalom Kevin
As it is not a theological debate, but a question as to how to research these things, I hardly think it violates the spirit of the law. I know it doesn't irritate me as much as the constant "Gotcha" that we see on this board.
If it is a flagrant and repeated violation, that is one thing. But, really...
Not intended as a personal attack on you, Kevin. But sometimes the cure is more harmful than the disease.
Then again, no one died and left me in charge either. But that is the way we clergy are. We just can't stand not calling sinners to repentance. Professional hazard, you know.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Yes, Kevin, it does. William knew that. MJ knew that (making the switch from messiah to 'Jesus'). And Rosie knew that but tried to re-direct to literal resources.
And Michael's demonstrating how to rationalize (doing it quite well, I might add!).
The issue isn't forum guidelines. It's whether a group likes a poster or not (which means likes Logos or not). Next time you see someone preceding their issue with 'this might be theological ...' or 'I really, really, really like Logos, but ... ', then the 'real' forum guidelines are used. Else the ones Bob introduced.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Ok - guys just asking - need to know how it works round here so I don't trip up myself
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Kevin A Lewis said:
Ok - guys just asking - need to know how it works round here so I don't trip up myself
Technically this is not the place for theology discussions but often the line becomes blurred when it comes to discussing theological resources. Personally I'm okay with this being a "grey" issue with occasional reminders to keep things on track.
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And I had simply read it as a request for resources and searches. I didn't know there was theological controversy involved although I did ignore the theological musings that extended the question. And Denise, I'm afraid I hadn't even noticed who the poster was. My answer would have been the same regardless of his terminology - read Gregory of Nyssa.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Well, I want to say 2 things. First, thanks to Rosie for the information on Moses as type.
Second, I am sorry. My post did break forum rules. Let me be truthful. I am Severely Mentally ill ( SMI ). Severe depression.... I Read 2nd Sam 6 7 and have been really struggling.
anyway, I was really struggling and still am with uzzah's "error". I am personally really wondering if my sin has just gone too far in Gods eyes. I really wonder if God is not treating me like Pharaoh (give me over to my own thoughts) or uzzah (enough is enough.)
Why in the world did God condemn "the fatal straw to the camel's back" uzzah for steadying the ark?
of course the response needs to be how to search and just deal with that.
This is really my only place to talk to Christians. I do look forward to responses because the post will be lead back to logos searching.
It is that I desperately need.
Here I am able to put my problem down and look forward to a response. I am able to let my boiling mind simmer instead of blow the top.
I still feel Logos needs one place for a bit of both theology and usage. We are in all respects the invisible church and some of us (MMEE!!!)
struggles.
Anyway, I am sorry.
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William, I am so sorry to hear you've been struggling with SMI / severe depression. I hope you have somewhere/someone local and in-person to turn to for help with that. It can go beyond the spiritual, so don't try to solve it entirely on your own by looking things up in the Bible and praying and asking questions in an online forum of hopefully safe, but often misunderstanding (due to the nature of online communication), Christians. Meanwhile, I will be adding you to my prayer list for the coming few days anyway, and perhaps until I hear back from you that you're out of the woods.
If it's any help to your present struggle, let me share a story about my mother. She struggled throughout her adult life with manic-depressive illness (now more properly called bipolar disorder) for which she was on medication which allowed her to function normally for the most part. However one time in perhaps her 40s, she thought she wasn't having enough faith in the healing power of God, so she prayed and believed she'd been healed and stopped taking her medications (without consulting her doctor or a psychiatrist). She soon went into a terrible relapse, and it affected her spiritually as well as mentally. (Our brain and the parts of our body where our emotions are felt are complex and intricate; fearfully and wonderfully made by God; somehow our ability to have faith is tied up in the physical structures of our mind and we have to take seriously those interconnections). My mother became excessively depressed and inconsolable. She thought thoughts that were not consistent with what I knew was her secure position in Christ. She thought she was evil, had committed the "unpardonable sin" and had lost her salvation. (She thought her sin against the Holy Spirit was having read some book on deconstructionism while taking a course towards her PhD in English lit; it was irrational of her to think that.) She wouldn't go to church because she was afraid she would pollute the other people there even just by shaking hands with them. I tried to console her by reading her passages like "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" but she wouldn't listen because she said that didn't apply to her if she was no longer "in Christ Jesus." She was really not making any sense at all, and my father finally had to have her committed to the psych ward and get her back on the medications to stabilize her mood. She pulled through that episode and went on to recover her joy in the Lord. But see, I'm telling you this because it could be your psychological situation which is telling you God is treating you like Pharaoh or Uzzah.
Your sin, whatever it is, is between you and God, but I can tell you it can never go too far for God. The only "unpardonable sin" is the perpetual decision to refuse God's grace, and if you were committing it, you'd know it and you would have chosen it. If your fear that God has rejected you comes from an unwell mind, it is not something God will blame you for, so try not to worry about that for now as you seek out help. And if it only causes you more stress and depression about this, then stay away from the parts of the Bible that are confusing and frightening to you for now. Focus on the parts that bring you comfort. Maybe Psalm 23, or some other favorite consoling passages.
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Rosie Thank You for your response to William.
William I will say one thing about this " I am personally really wondering if my sin has just gone too far in Gods eyes."
I think that as long as you are still seeking after God, then you have not gone too far in his eyes.
I am also sorry for your struggling with SMI.
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William Bingham said:
My post did break forum rules.
No, it really didn't - you asked for information that was easily answered by the use of Logos or the recommendation of resources. Your musings could be taken either as theological or as showing where you were going and thereby clarifying your question. Light grey - yes; break the rules - no. Feel free to continue to ask your questions - especially if you have few others to ask. I promise to call you on it if you come across as trying to initiate a theological controversy.[;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Peace, William! *smile* And Blessings for the New Year! ... and For Ever!
I remember many of your pleasant and helpful posts to the Logos Forums over the years, and thank you for them!
I DO thank God that you've been open to sharing with us at present some of your thoughts ...
Just a quick note that I -- like Rosie! -- and I'm sure quite a few others -- have placed you on my personal prayer list ... at least for now !
Rosie's Loving and Helpful advice would be my very own, William!
Also, I remember your self-learning Hebrew and I know you are into God's Word ... May the Holy Spirit of God help you Grow in the Grace and Knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .. *smile*
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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William, I appreciate you being vulnerable with us and glad you are able to be part of our community. May the Lord continue to work in you and through you and bring healing to you.
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Thank you all. I am seeing my pastor and I am regularly trying to listen to GOD. I do have other community supports as well.
Iam much better now and have not dwelt on the tough passage.
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That's good to hear. Thanks for checking back in with us, William. It's better to tackle tough passages when you're in a mindset that is not likely to become unnecessarily self-accusatory. So I trust the time will come when you can return to this one. And in the meantime, may you continue to grow in the abundant grace and endless mercy of our Lord.
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And He said to them, "Is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the Sabbath, to save a life or to kill?" But they kept silent.
If breaking the forum rules helps someone...break all you want.
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