Logos 6 Best Feature: NO INDEXING !!!!!!!!!!

@GS

This is a user coming on to the forums for help. He is not the only user. There could be some pattern. Something COULD be broken in the indexer's algorithm / implementation. Unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE of your diagnosis and solution, I suggest you leave Logos to it.

There is nothing more infuriating for a user than to have a problem, get into some support forum, and be told there's no problem or there is something wrong on their end, which is not documented. More so, if it turns out to be a red herring.

George Somsel said:

Lee said:

@GS

This is a user coming on to the forums for help. He is not the only user. There could be some pattern. Something COULD be broken in the indexer's algorithm / implementation. Unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE of your diagnosis and solution, I suggest you leave Logos to it.

There is nothing more infuriating for a user than to have a problem, get into some support forum, and be told there's no problem or there is something wrong on their end, which is not documented. More so, if it turns out to be a red herring.

Unless you have good and sufficient reason to conclude that the problem lies with Logos rather than the user's setup, I would suggest that you butt out.

Abusive post, by one of the forum's long-standing denizens, who has very evident maturity issues. Unfortunately, here we have a pattern as well.

Personally, I've only had problems with the indexing process when there was a slew of updates last month. That problem went away. But some users are having problems, and they seek some kind of resolution. Something needs to be looked at.

There's no room for non-Logos employees pretending to be Logos, speaking up for Logos, or speaking as if they are God, making technical and even moral assessments about posters without more.

I am reporting your posts as abusive.

Note to self: Stay off Logos forums, even in threads with issues that are relevant, because of denizens like George Somsel who seem to "have the microphone" and is able to pick a fight and hurl insults anytime because he is one of Logos' more illustrious customers. Also, buy more product from competitor and recommend others do the same, to be sure that I don't put all my pennies in a company that knows too much and does too little.

Lee said:

I am reporting your posts as abusive.

Note to self: Stay off Logos forums, even in threads with issues that are relevant, because of denizens like George Somsel who seem to "have the microphone" and is able to pick a fight and hurl insults anytime because he is one of Logos' more illustrious customers. Also, buy more product from competitor and recommend others do the same, to be sure that I don't put all my pennies in a company that knows too much and does too little.

Teacher, teacher, Johnny …

I'll bet you were a little tattle-tale in school.

Dave, I did not follow the "written procedures" for method 3 or any such thing. I just got into the app when I was able and used "scan x:\logos\resources" from my Drobo NAS, as I did not want the delay, cost and network load to Logos while I downloaded the 30 GB of source that I already had sitting on my backup drive.
When I wrote of "Core modules" it was my made up name for the three kinds of things in Logos 5, being 1) The actual application or progam and its dlls and the likes, 2) stuff it needs or it cant really work so has to download first (hence "core modules") such as the databases that support Controlled Vocab and assorted stuff, then 3) books or resources, which it should be able to work without and does not need unless you want to read and/or index.
My view is that phase (1) should take but minutes, (2) should take as long as the download needs, but still not so long, and (3) takes as long as a piece of string due to different libraries and network speeds. I believe a fresh install should begin being useful within the first hour or so, not 18 hours.
I guess I could have different subsets and scan my 50 fave titles first while keeping it offline so its forced to index those before getting its hands on the next part of the resources. It does not seem like I should have to hack its default modes so hard to lessen the pain.
My laptop is NEW with over 800 GB still free. The indexing took about another 5 hours after when I posted. I think it was some 18 hours from start of installing Logos 5 until it was complete and indexed. Hence my view that Logos 5 is weak for large libraries.
As for the flame wars - guys I don't much care for that, nor being told I must be doing something wrong because it works fine for someone else. I'd like to hear from those that have over 20 GB in their resources directory please: anyone else saying it works fine for them is not important in this context. (But of course I'm well pleased its working fine for them.)
And no, the new laptop does not have an SSD. It was not an option on the type I machine I wanted and can afford. It does have 8 GB ram and an i7-4700MQ so its not short of memory and power in that regard. Maybe just a slow drive.

@MJ:

Report GS? Sufficient? As far as I know, he's still around, and he still does pretty much gets to do what he wants to do. Wasn't it you who advised: "Let George be George"?

 

mike said:

Lee, this is the second time I see you acted with same behavior ....

"adding fuel to the fire" "reporting unnecessary stuffs" ... ( i don't want to bring up the thread)

please... stop it. period.

mike said:

John MacArthur agrees with Gordon D. Fee on his video here.. 

Fast forward on 8:00 mark

This from the originator of this post. Enough said. Let the reader understand.

Maybe on weekends some folks have a lot of time on their hands and certain strange behaviour emerges. I for one don't have the luxury of such time. But going forward, I sincerely hope that the technical issues are sorted out. I think that finetuning the indexer is not beyond Logos' reach. If there's any pattern (e.g. specific hardware or drivers) that comes up, I think it will be very helpful to identify it.

Dave Hooton said:

Lee said:

This is a user coming on to the forums for help. He is not the only user. There could be some pattern...I suggest you leave Logos to it.

Then let's wait for JimT to respond to my questions, because Logos doesn't look for software issue in this (General) forum i.e. a new thread in the Logos 5 forum is best.

Perhaps if Dave or some other MVP can alert Logos staff about this. These cases are not routine. Logs are needed but may not be sufficient. You might need to know specific hardware and software config. Logos needs to reach out to these users privately.

Abusing the forum is something that is not on my mind. Thanks for your reminder. As for your moral judgment, I return it with thanks.

Dave Hooton said:

But I trust you can see that a custom install like Method 3 will allow you to get into the app fairly quickly and scan your 30 GB folder of resources? Logos provided the custom option to not download resources following user requests some years ago.

Dave, is this the recommended method of migrating to a new system? Coincidentally I am migrating to an i7-4700MQ platform (similar to JimT's). I want to save time, but I want to make sure that the result of this method is identical (e.g. file permissions) to a fresh install with download-everything.

Dave Hooton said:

Lee said:

Dave, is this the recommended method of migrating to a new system?

It is not official but it is just as safe because the (Logos) Scan command replaces the normal download from the server.

Thanks. This could save some time.

Dave Hooton said:

Denise said:

Well, I agree with Lee (got my 5 gallon approved fire-igniting container ready).

Is 5 gallons (US gallon?) more than 25 litres

1 (US) gallon = 3.75 liters. Ergo 25 liters = 6.59allons. Imerial gallons are larger than US gallons.

I am absolutely fed up with Logos. I have been a user for almost 20 years and I want my money back! The program is a memory hog and the download has rendered the search engine for Logos completely logos.

I suggest we all boycott purchasing the product until they fix this issue.

Michael Samuel said:

I am absolutely fed up with Logos. I have been a user for almost 20 years and I want my money back! The program is a memory hog and the download has rendered the search engine for Logos completely logos.

I suggest we all boycott purchasing the product until they fix this issue.

The behavior you describe may be a wide-ranging bug, a bug that shows up on your machine, or something wrong with the software and/or hardware in your setup.

I would suggest posting a thread with specifics and logs, or calling Tech Support.

My computer is an HP desktop that normally runs very quickly and efficiently. However, every time I turn my Logos program on, it always tries to download the files. Even when I tell it to pause, it still renders the search feature useless. Four hours later, the same problem occurs like an endless loop. 

The Logos is a useless program as it now stands. I am very sorry I paid tens of thousands of dollars purchasing the software. Wordsearch never gives me this kind of trouble, and it also has the advantage of pdf file integration/managements and HTML--qualities lacking in Logos. Frankly, a few extra changes in the file index means nothing to me if the program is non-functional. 

I spoke with Tech Support and he said, "Your problem is the first I have heard about the indexing being an issue." Obviously, he was either totally ignorant, or he was a liar. The forum thread completely repudiates his belief that I am the first person to complain about the indexing feature.

Michael Samuel said:

My computer is an HP desktop that normally runs very quickly and efficiently. However, every time I turn my Logos program on, it always tries to download the files. Even when I tell it to pause, it still renders the search feature useless. Four hours later, the same problem occurs like an endless loop. 

I know you're trying your best, but your post still does not have the level of detail required to troubleshoot.

More than that, if there is something that strikes you as a bug, you can get help by posting a separate thread. This thread was started for different reasons, and airing your problem here will not get you the proper attention.

Indexing not a big deal to me. Super fast PC engine.

mm.

Bradley, 

Im sure this has been suggested, but, in case it has not, is it at all possible for Logos to do updates and indexing once a month? 
There is no super solution, Im sure, because everyone wants their books (oops, resources) 20 minutes before they're finished being finalized, but, there's a ton of complaints about indexing; and, the indexing is obviously, the single most important facet of Logos. Yet, it does seem rather pointless to have a resource added today, index, tomorrow, re-index, and again on Friday (for examples). If the downloads are limited to once a week or once per month, then the indexing would be limited, right?

Im not really sure how Indexing works. Are only the "unindexed" resources indexed, or, does everything get reindexed? 

There's been a lot explained about Indexing, what it is, and why it is. But, somehow, that is not getting out. Perhaps on our homepage, we could periodically get the "Purpose of Indexing" articles (although, Im sure it still will not get read). But, I'm sure people will be more accepting, when we understand what it is, what it does, and why we want it. Obviously, or apparent to me, Mike is not aware of these issues, because he thinks no indexing would be the best feature in future editions. 

Anyway, I hope that people can understand just what indexing is, why we want it, and have Logos know when we want it. Like I said, maybe less frequently. Perhaps this is a possibility? When we buy and download books, we could be asked, "Do you want to index this resource now, or at the next scheduled indexing?" This would force people to make a decision to index immediately, or at a later date. They would then know their new books would not be included in searches, until they have been indexed. 

Bradley Grainger (Logos) said:

mike said:

I'm sure those smart programmers guys at Logos will know how to fix this (I'm praying for a miracle)

One possibility is to move the index from your computer to our servers (similar to what is done for the mobile apps right now). Would it be an acceptable solution to require an Internet connection for searching to work?

Michael Samuel said:

My computer is an HP desktop that normally runs very quickly and efficiently.

That doesn't mean much in real terms. What does it normally run quickly and efficiently? Logos is a powerful piece of professional software. A computer that can run Microsoft Word and a web browser without any trouble can't necessarily be expected to run Photoshop, Final Cut, or Logos with the same performance.

Could you provide the actual specs of your machine? The CPU (make, model, and clock speed), RAM amount, and hard drive speed are the most important components of this equation.

I suspect, in fact, that your hard drive may be to blame. An old drive that's not able to read/write at sustained high speeds will dramatically slow down an I/O intensive process like indexing. This is the sort of issue that's also unlikely to affect most other processes on your computer so significantly that you would notice. Do you hear noises when your drive is in operation? What's the RPM speed of the drive? Answers to those questions might help us make progress in figuring out your dilemma.

This indexing thread has certainly attracted some comments.

I used to have TERRIBLE indexing problems and thought about indexing all the time. At the moment things are going smoothly.

Is it possible to have SEVERAL INDEXES?

At the moment we have 2 indexes, one for Bibles and one for everything else.,

How about 5 indexes .... an index for commentaries, an index for journals, an index for dictionaries, an index for devotionals etc

If this works it would have the advantage that if I purchase a new commentary only one of my indexes will have to be redone. The others could still be used.

Stephen Miller

Sydney, Australia

Michael Samuel said:

What will it take for Logos to take responsibility for this crazy issue?

If you encounter some kind of unexpected behavior, you could report it in a separate thread, and furnish details that would help troubleshooting. I've also criticized Logos for bugs before. But I think reporting bugs is the way to go, both for yourself and other users.

The problem has been solved according to my satisfaction; the tech support's higher tier knew what they were doing, unlike the lower tier that didn't.

Secondly, I beg to differ. If a lot of people have problems with Logos indexing, they need to seriously look at that. The whole world is not crazy.

Thirdly, having someone who knows what they are doing at the Tech support is the only solution. Blaming the customer for product defects is unacceptable to most loyal customers.