The EULA says "As of 10/2007 the fee is equal to 10% of the manufacturer's suggested retail price of the products being transferred"

 My comments below are predicated on the fact that I understood the above correctly and that the policy is still valid

That means that if you bought the AB commentaries on prepub for $1500 you will have to pay (or the recipient will have to pay) 10% of the so called suggested retail price of $3,985.00 (not 10% of the $1,500 you paid)

almost $400 just to transfer the license of a resource that cost $1500 to begin with . That is more than 25% of the cost just to transfer it

This is strange since no one pays the suggested retail price for anything and everyone pays at most the sale price and many pay less than that (i.e. academic price)

I am curious to see the rationale for such a prohibitive transfer fee, blaming the publishers will not do this time since it applies to all resources and I doubt that the publishers came together and agree on such a fee just for Logos products

To put it mildly , I am not happy about it and I am very disappointed that such policy has been implemented

I would like to convince myself that this is not just a cheap ploy to force loyal (and not so loyal) customers to cough up up  to 25% of the price they paid when a resource or a set of resources change hands

If the EULA is still is force, I know it is legal, but is it ethical (considering that such transfer fees are usually restricted to company buying professional license and not individual making sacrifices to buy resources for the ministry)?

I would like to see Logos addressing that, if it is not properly addressed, I will consider taking my business somewhere else, even if it is just by principle and also to protect  my future acquisitions

Alain  

I can understand there is a fee for total transfer. After I bought Scholar's Golden Edition I gave my previous license of Bible Study Edition (since I did not use the upgrade option) to my son and paid about 60 USD for that. However I felt very disappointed as I found I am not able to transfer some downloads to him. Since I buy everything possible in downloads because the mail fee is just too high to get it here in Europe, I just don't know what I would do if I would need to transfer all my library to somebody else after I don't need it anymore (I heard rumors, Logos doesn't come to Heaven with me). [:)]

I just can't believe Logos would not change that policy eventually. There is too big competition out there to keep this kind of discouraging thing. One of the reasons you buy Logos (at least that's what I thought till now) is to make your investment into books safe. 

Have a great day

JF said:

This policy is just not right at all.  Do I own the product or not?  If I want to give the product to someone ( such as my Pastor ) it should be my right.  I made the sad mistake one time of buying two of the same product on CD from Logos.  One was for me and one for by Pastor as a gift of love.  Boy was I shocked to find out when he tried to load it on his computer that it was licensed to me and we had to pay a transfer fee.

I can fully understand that there would be a transfer fee since there is labor involved for Logos in reassigning the licenses.  I think this would best be handled on a flat fee per license basis to cover the employee's wages and a bit of a profit for Logos as well.  What I don't understand is that this should be a percentage of the list price. 

In the case of a gift to the pastor, I may not understand what has transpired.  If you purchased the product but never installed it on your computer, then whoever installs it should be able to install it with no further charge.  I gave some resources on apologetics to a friend of mine who is scientifically oriented (Anapolis grad, retired Navy, works as a consultant for SAIC frequently at the Pentagon).  If he had to pay a transfer fee, he never told me.  I'm assuming he didn't.

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

can understand there is a fee for total transfer. After I bought Scholar's Golden Edition I gave my previous license of Bible Study Edition (since I did not use the upgrade option) to my son and paid about 60 USD for that. However I felt very disappointed as I found I am not able to transfer some downloads to him. Since I buy everything possible in downloads because the mail fee is just too high to get it here in Europe, I just don't know what I would do if I would need to transfer all my library to somebody else after I don't need it anymore (I heard rumors, Logos doesn't come to Heaven with me).

There is a solution to passing on your resources to your next of kin if you keep the entire collection intact.  That is to simply pass the license to them as well so they can then access the resources under your license.  Logos may not like it, but I see no way they can stop it.  The only fly in the ointment is if the recipient of your largesse then wishes to add resources.  That could create a problem -- though perhaps not if they were able to purchase them using your account.

BTW:  Who says you're going to heaven anyway?  Do you think old farts like us make it?  [:D]

I hope we can get some official word on this during business hours on Monday.  I have spent thousands of dollars over the years and knowing I cannot give this to one of my sons someday without paying a huge fee is like the government taxing income twice.  If you buy a paper book, you can give to anyone without paying the publisher twice for the book.  And what happens to my download purchases?  Can I pass those on or not?

I LOVE logos since the first beta test days through the Mac beta test, but these kinds of policies do have an impact on how I promote Logos to others... maybe I will even need to blog on this depending on the response.  I hope this question is asnwered soon.

Thanks Logos.

i believe the transfer fee applies to partial transfer of resources. This subject came up on newsgroups a year ago or so. Bob posted and said that when it involves a whole library transfer due to death, etc. that it can be done for a nominal fee. It just involves entering the database and showing a change in ownership.

I am looking at seeing most of my paper library shredded in a few years. International shipping fees are so much more expensive than they used to be. I am glad that I can take my Logos library with me. When it is time to pass it one, it will go to one of my kids or some new theological student. But since I don't have to pack it each time that I move I intend to keep it for many years. My paper library with or without Logos will be left behind. Most retired ministers/missionaries end up leaving their paper libraries behind due to not having strength and energy to take it along with them on each move. I plan to take my Logos "parchments" with me.

I agree that it is necessary for Bob to respond.  It would be good if on the website there was an actual policy written up.  This IS an issue.  Paper books get inherited by children or church library or to friends.  Libronix books I hope also to pass onto my  child or children if possible...or if no children...obviously I would want to will it to someone.  I dont think it should just die with me...

Well, history is history.  When a company grows and gets very big...they begin to lose the the very things that caused so many to be attracted to them.  I can see the old time prophets of the past years gearing up with their "i told you so' follow up messages. 

What we all want is to be sure our investment is not going to disappear with new technology. My kids loved playing educational games on our xp PC.  Then Vista came and the games dont work.  That is my greatest fear.  The day will come when logos discontinues their product line in the form that it is in and technology will leave what we have far behind...or when we wish to leave our vast investment with a younger disciple or sell it for dirt cheap consider the expense we paid to have it (as we would with paper books), we wont be able to do so.

This is my reasoning behind encouraging open format for Libronix.  The fear has always been that as other companies have folded or gone under or have become irrelevant, or have changed the course of their business, our investment in book purchases will dry up and we will not have our digital books.

Any amount of 'encouragment' from the CEO that they wont let this happen are to me, empty promises because they are promises that cannot necessarily be fulfilled, as much as they wish to fulfill them...unless Logos puts safe guards in their product to ensure use for at least our lifetime, if not, the lifetime of our children

Mark

George Somsel said:

BTW:  Who says you're going to heaven anyway?  Do you think old farts like us make it? 

George -

They may need you in the other place - there won't be many down there telling them what you have to say.

Blessings,

Floyd

Bob might have addressed the issue a few years ago but the answer is far from being  satisfactory

He argues that under most circumstances one cannot pass individual licenses to another person “because we offer a really good price in exchange for licensing to one user”.

This statement is ambiguous because there is a difference between “one user at a time” and “one user only and ever”. The price structure of logos resources is not that different from that of vendors who allow the free transfer of licenses  (if one excludes programs like prepub and the academic program). As such, the argument of low cost does not stand when justifying restricting a license to only “one user only and ever”

This conflicts with the EULA since one can transfer a resource by paying 10% of the retail price of the resource.

I agree that one cannot break up collections and sell resources in that collection because individual resources were not separately licensed in the collection

However, this is different from individual collections and standalone resources in a library. They were bought separately and one should be able to sell or give them away separately (as a collection or as a standalone resource) with a “small service fee” if necessary (how is it different from everyday free customer support, I do not know)

I highly doubt that 10% or the retail price (not the real price which is the sale price) qualifies as a “small service fee”. It takes the same effort to make changes in a database for a collection of 80 titles like Anchor Bible Commentaries or for a standalone book that costs $15.

However, the fee for the former would be $400 and the fee for the latter would be $20 (the minimum transfer fee being $20)

One should be able to transfer entire individual collections or standalone resources for a “small service fee” per transfer not per resources (if such fee is needed at all). It should be a flat fee that is independent of the price of the collection or resource

Maybe Logos should work towards automating transfers, the same way purchases are automated online (having done programming myself, I know that the implementation would not be that complicated especially since Logos already has an interface compatible with that task)

The “small service fee” (as opposed to the 10% transfer fee for resources) should not be restricted to the entire library because one might wish to donate or sell individual collections or standalone resources related to area of study in which one does not specialize anymore while wanting to keep the rest of the resource. This all or nothing approach (apart from keeping individual collections together) does not make much sense. To take a music analogy, I understand that if I buy an album, I cannot sell individual songs (I need to sell the whole album but it would be ridiculous to ask me to sell my entire library of songs just because I want to get rid of my collection of country songs).

The bottom line is as follows

It is a good thing that Logos recognizes that users have the right to transfer resources

However, it does not make sense that only the entire library can be transferred (per Bob post) or that one would have to pay 10% of the retail price for individual collections or standalone resources

Alain

Bob's answer does not look like an official policy nor does it seem adequate enough to be an official policy.  From what I get from his past post, when I die or retire, I can give my entire library to my wife or a child for a fee that is 10% of the retail value.  If I have purchased thousands of dollars worth of books at prepub prices, I cannot imagine what retail value of my library would be today.  But it probably would be too much and yes, I am beginning to feel as if I dont own my purchases and have to start thinking of whether this type of library is what I really want.

I realized that, since I learned about that policy, I am thinking about buying new resources ONLY because I have strong hope this issue will be clerified. Otherwise I would have to stop buying any next collections and think about the alternative. I don't want to come back to the paper books however. But that looks to be the only safe way to really own the resources. Well, we will see... I hope.

Greetings

I agree 100%.

I was under the impresssion that logos did not charge for the transfer of titles in the begining, but it was labor intensive for customer service and felt they needed to charge something for the service.

My personal feeling is that there need to be a fair way to sell books no longer wanted or needed, after all we paid good money for them. If we are required to sell our complete library to someone in order to not pay a 10% fee is not fair. What happens to those that inherit our library and want to sell because they need the money? Some of us have large enough libraries that it would be almost impossible to find a buyer for the whole sheebang. At that point our heirs would have digital files that we have paid thousands of dollars for that would not benefit them. Hopefully they would use them, but who knows?

Bobby T