You MUST bid on Witherington video course! *

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604340#Comment_604340

I've been in on this since it came out, but I have a question. I know that there will be a written transcript. If someone wants to quote BW3 (or any other mEd instructor), what will the "bibliographic" info look like? Will the transcript be paginated or will it include a time stamp, or something else?

I would also like to see these regularly close in the $50 range as well. [Y]

Kent

I'm in Bob. In addition, I'd really like to know when the apologetic courses will become available?

JohnB

Bob, it is a brilliant offer and especially for lay Christians like myserlf who have even more problems justifying purchases to their spouces than ministers do 8-) . I was in from the start and would be even more delighted if it dropped down to $50.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604374#Comment_604374

Dear Bob,

Please do inform us which books Dr. Ben Witherington will use during his lectures so we wouldn't go "goo goo gaa gaa" ...

It is very important for us to have the books which he will use/discuss from..

Furthermore, please give us discount towards those books if we purchase Dr. Witherington's mobile ed.

Thank you.

ps: Dr. Moo's Romans' mobile ed came out after the sale Romans Commentaries ended. I think someone made a mistake internally and did the opposite. You could've had more sale on those Romans commentaries if you ended the sale after the Romans' mobile ed came out.

James Milne Smith

It would be great if this goes through at this price! It would allow us to see what Mobile Ed is really like, and might whet our appetites for more modules.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604340#Comment_604340

If someone wants to quote BW3 (or any other mEd instructor), what will the "bibliographic" info look like? Will the transcript be paginated or will it include a time stamp, or something else?

I don't know if this will help you, but I Have Douglas Moo's Romans course. There are no page numbers, the 4 search fields are Footnote text, Heading Text, Surface Text, and Large Text. There are no Indexes according to the About page. If I copy a block of text the citation looks like this:

Paul’s Use of Old Testament Scripture

We remember that Paul’s overall purpose in Rom 9–11 is to try to show how the gospel he is preaching does indeed fulfill OT promises to Israel. It should be no surprise, therefore, that Rom 9–11 is filled with quotations of the OT. Indeed, one third of all of the quotations of the OT in Paul occur in these three chapters. It’s a fascinating thing to read Paul’s use of Scripture going back to the OT itself to see what’s going on there and compare them. Paul is reading Scripture in a certain way in the light of Christ to make sense of things for his Roman audience.
There are problems along the way, however, when we do that comparison. Sometimes we read what Paul says an OT verse is saying (or its significance and meaning), and we go back to the OT, and we don’t perhaps initially see as clearly that that’s what the OT text is indeed saying. This problem of the OT in the NT has been an enduring issue in the history of the Church. And while we can’t say a lot about the matter here, we want to at least touch on the issue in relationship to one quotation in Rom 9.

Douglas J. Moo, NT331 Book Study: Paul’s Letter to the Romans (Logos Mobile Education; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014).

From the About Page, using SBL Handbook of Style, it shows this:

Moo, Douglas J. NT331 Book Study: Paul’s Letter to the Romans. Logos Mobile Education. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604403#Comment_604403

Thanks. It was curiosity more than anything, but I do expect that I will quote from this course here and there.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604424#Comment_604424

I have also been in since the beginning, and I am very excited about this offering!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604425#Comment_604425

I also have been in for a while

It would be great to see Community Pricing deliver this for a fraction of the regular cost, and while the $105 price is a great deal, it would be even better if twice as many people could get it for $50!

https://www.logos.com/product/42481/logos-mobile-education-nt221-the-wisdom-of-john-a-socio-rhetorical-commentary-on-johannine-literature

Noticed $ 105 and $ 90 have peaks 88 %. If enough bidders with amounts higher than $ 90 reduced their bids to $ 90, projected price would drop to $ 90 that could attract more bidders.

- Each course includes a full transcript of each video segment right after the video. This aids those who prefer reading over listening, lets you search for things you heard to find them later, lets you highlight and annotate within the lecture, and lets you copy and share quotes from the lecture.

Please add a line to Product Details:

Title: NT221 The Wisdom of John: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary on Johannine Literature
Instructor: Ben Witherington III
Publisher: Lexham Press
Publication Date: 2014
Product Type: Logos Mobile Education
Resource Type: Lectures, Video
Courses: 1
Video Units: 13
1 video unit = 1 full hour of video course material
Transcripts: 1 Logos resource with ##,### words

Keep Smiling [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604452#Comment_604452

Noticed $ 105 and $ 90 have peaks 88 %. If enough bidders with amounts higher than $ 90 reduced their bids to $ 90, projected price would drop to $ 90 that could attract more bidders.

This seems to be the prevailing belief. On a recent thread this belief seems to be debunked. Anyone want to comment?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604455#Comment_604455

Noticed $ 105 and $ 90 have peaks 88 %. If enough bidders with amounts higher than $ 90 reduced their bids to $ 90, projected price would drop to $ 90 that could attract more bidders.

This seems to be the prevailing belief. On a recent thread this belief seems to be debunked. Anyone want to comment?

Every bid amount above $ 90 is included in the $ 90 progress. Reducing $ 105 bids to $90 would keep the $ 90 peak as is while reducing $ 105 progress. Below 100 % coverage of estimated production costs, projected price shows bid amount with the most progress. When community pricing has a closing bid date, projected price shows lowest amount across all bids that covers 100 % of estimated production costs.

Keep Smiling [:)]

It would be great to see Community Pricing deliver this for a fraction of the regular cost, and while the $105 price is a great deal, it would be even better if twice as many people could get it for $50!

https://www.logos.com/product/42481/logos-mobile-education-nt221-the-wisdom-of-john-a-socio-rhetorical-commentary-on-johannine-literature

I have access to the internal Community Pricing numbers. I know that if this course gets the same number of bids as our most popular CP titles... it could go for a lot less than $50!

I think it's a pure pipe dream to think this could ever sell for under $50, or even close to $50 for that matter, at least as CP is currently implemented. The main impediment is the time limit triggered between crossing the line and "price lock". While I have seen a few items display a significant drop in price after crossing the line, the current window of a couple of days to about a week just isn't enough time to allow this resource to reach the "desired target price" of $50. The reason is pretty simple...it will trigger the countdown with too much distance to be covered. If it crosses at $90 it probably won't make it to $60. It could, but it's not likely...unlessssss Logos decides to increase the simmer time to two weeks or even longer.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the simmer time increased across the board, but especially for these mEd offerings. But I have a better idea, I think. Why not just set the price at the desired price point (i.e. PrePub) and just wait for it to cross the line? It seems to me that tons more people would have jumped on this if it had been set at $50 to start. Granted, whether that point was really viable may not have been evident at the get-go, but now that it appears to be possible, why not pick an interesting topic and give it a whirl? Try an OT topic, if you don't mind, to complement BW3's NT topic.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604473#Comment_604473

While I have seen a few items display a significant drop in price after crossing the line, the current window of a couple of days to about a week just isn't enough time

Personally wish for every Community Pricing to have 4 days after 100 % coverage to closure, which could be done by changing cutoff from Wednesday at Noon in Bellingham to Monday at Noon.

But I have a better idea, I think. Why not just set the price at the desired price point (i.e. PrePub) and just wait for it to cross the line?

Looking at pre-publications sorted by oldest => https://www.logos.com/products/search?Status=Pre-Pub&start=0&sort=oldest&pageSize=60 has an intriguing mix. Perhaps some pre-publications that are gathering interest with less than 50 % of estimated production cost coverage could be converted to Community Pricing: e.g. Cascadia Syntax graphs of the Apostolic Fathers and Septuagint by Lexham Press.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604488#Comment_604488

Personally wish for every Community Pricing to have 4 days after 100 % coverage to closure, which could be done by changing cutoff from Wednesday at Noon in Bellingham to Monday at Noon.

Yes Yes Yes! [Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604492#Comment_604492

Personally wish for every Community Pricing to have 4 days after 100 % coverage to closure, which could be done by changing cutoff from Wednesday at Noon in Bellingham to Monday at Noon.

Yes Yes Yes!

If you mean at least 4 days, then I fully agree. I see no harm in letting them go 2 weeks, especially since there are so many folks who still won't commit to bidding a CP until it has already crossed the line. Give folks who aren't forum hounds a chance to find these closing items.

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604452#Comment_604452

I'll look into word count... but online calculators report ~ 8,000 words per minute at average speed, so the transcript alone for 13 hours of video would be 104,000 words, which is something like a 300 page book.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604508#Comment_604508

~ 8,000 words per minute

I think you meant "per hour". [:$]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604376#Comment_604376

I just realized that it's kind of ironic that you guys are offering a course on John's Wisdom by Ben Witherington, but you don't offer his book John's Wisdom: A Commentary on the Fourth Gospel. I know you would if you could, but it is still kind of odd.

mike

Dear Bob,

Please do inform us which books Dr. Ben Witherington will use during his lectures so we wouldn't go "goo goo gaa gaa" ...

It is very important for us to have the books which he will use/discuss from..

Furthermore, please give us discount towards those books if we purchase Dr. Witherington's mobile ed.

Thank you.

ps: Dr. Moo's Romans' mobile ed came out after the sale Romans Commentaries ended. I think someone made a mistake internally and did the opposite. You could've had more sale on those Romans commentaries if you ended the sale after the Romans' mobile ed came out.

Joseph, this!

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604473#Comment_604473

I think it's a pure pipe dream to think this could ever sell for under $50, or even close to $50 for that matter, at least as CP is currently implemented. The main impediment is the time limit triggered between crossing the line and "price lock". While I have seen a few items display a significant drop in price after crossing the line, the current window of a couple of days to about a week just isn't enough time to allow this resource to reach the "desired target price" of $50. The reason is pretty simple...it will trigger the countdown with too much distance to be covered. If it crosses at $90 it probably won't make it to $60. It could, but it's not likely...unlessssss Logos decides to increase the simmer time to two weeks or even longer.

Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the simmer time increased across the board, but especially for these mEd offerings. But I have a better idea, I think. Why not just set the price at the desired price point (i.e. PrePub) and just wait for it to cross the line? It seems to me that tons more people would have jumped on this if it had been set at $50 to start. Granted, whether that point was really viable may not have been evident at the get-go, but now that it appears to be possible, why not pick an interesting topic and give it a whirl? Try an OT topic, if you don't mind, to complement BW3's NT topic.

That's exactly what I was thinking! As soon as that puppy hits the $90 bucks mark, the time limit to bid will kick in. Let's say if we reach $90 Tuesday, then it will say "bidding closes 6/27/2014 at 12pm Pacific time. That being the case, when will we ever see the "less than $50" mark? Exactly, never! Unless they adjust it and give us an extra week or two to get more bids in order to drop the price more.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604508#Comment_604508

I'll look into word count... but online calculators report ~ 8,000 words per minute at average speed, so the transcript alone for 13 hours of video would be 104,000 words, which is something like a 300 page book.

Page estimates for transcripts would be appreciated and allow "sizing" comparison with other Logos resources. Quick estimate is 23 pages per hour since 13 hours * 23 pages per hour = 299 pages.

Key Features describes digital transcript. Product Details of "Resources: Lecture, Video" does not quickly convey magnitude of what is in a course. Product Details elaborated on Video with hours and course units. Hence suggestion to add digital Lecture sizing (initially thought of words since did not know if Lecture resource had a page index).

Keep Smiling [:)]

Mike Childs

An Asbury graduate has to bid on Ben. I'm in!

Michael

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604575#Comment_604575

I'm in at $50 and would love to see what these courses are about, but I can't really justyify spending more to my wife. I hope you're right Bob.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604771#Comment_604771

I'm not sure whether the $50 really will come true - but https://www.logos.com/product/42481/logos-mobile-education-nt221-the-wisdom-of-john-a-socio-rhetorical-commentary-on-johannine-literature is (not counting the free book at #1) now the fifth-best bestselling CP.

It looks like it will cross at $90 rather than the current $105, and might go further down, given the slope of the percentage curve - but simple math will tell that for $50 to cross the line we need twice the number of bidders than for $100.

Unlike other authors I don't recall BW3 doing massive self-promotion for new offerings on his blog - but I can imagine if he wrote an article (or linked prominently to the Logos promo blog) this would get us some new bidders.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604771#Comment_604771

I'm in at $50 and would love to see what these courses are about, but I can't really justyify spending more to my wife. I hope you're right Bob.

The suggested bid is now at $90 and somewhere in the upper 90s%. Judging from the slope of the graph, it is doubtful that it will close at less that $80, if it can get that low. Of course, that all depends on how many jump on the bandwagon once the line crosses 100%.

Michael

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604789#Comment_604789

I saw a slight bump at $60, so Iincreased my bid.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604805#Comment_604805

I think quite a few people have changed their bids as it is now below 100%.

Kent

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604845#Comment_604845

Looks like it stalled out!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605042#Comment_605042

I dropped my bid from $135 to $90 a couple of days ago, and I just dropped it again to $60. I think more should do the same. I realize that a bid of $90 is also a bid for $60, but that's not the point. The point is, we don't want the deadline to trigger prematurely. Bob has openly endorsed and promoted a lower price, and I'm sure he fully comprehends that means it will take a bit longer to get this to his target price. Personally, I'm all for this being less expensive, even if it takes an extra month or two to hit the target.

I encourage everyone to drop their prices to $60 so that a higher price doesn't activate the countdown too early.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605049#Comment_605049

In another thread I just wrote on his book, I was also looking at Prof Gary Rendsburg's lecture series on Great Courses (DVD). They had a big sale from 2009, marking it down from $250 to $70.

So there you go. That was 5 years ago, so maybe $80 now (for a sale). CP should at least match a Great Courses sale.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605053#Comment_605053

I hate to say it, but I think Bob's speculation that this could go to $50 sunk this, at least in the short term. I see this as eBay. If everyone would just bid what they think it is worth and leave it alone, then the market would work. I am sure that it will still go over eventually, but I was really looking forward to this crossing sooner than later, which it did, but it seems bids were changed to follow Bob's projection.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605053#Comment_605053

Bob should feel bad and give it to everyone for $50 anyway! [:P]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605097#Comment_605097

I was really looking forward to this crossing sooner than later

It looks like $60 is only about 5 percentage points behind $90; it shouldn't take that long to cross the line. Besides, I'm thinking this thing is mostly "in the can" already. Obviously the video portion has been completed. I suspect it will be ready to ship out the door in a matter of days once it crosses the line.

James Milne Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605099#Comment_605099

I agree. Many retailers offer a "loss leader" in the hope that the customer will be tempted back. If we can buy this series for $50 we will see how good it is and we might well come back for more. This whole thread has brought MobileEd to my attention, and I am thinking that if it as good as I think it might be then I will regret missing out on the Doctrine Pre Pub.

JohnB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605100#Comment_605100

If this ends up messing around for months Bob might be put off trying CP again with courses. If it pulls more people in and crosses over in a few days we might get a lot more on CP.

I hope that you are right David and it does not take long.

A bit of a gamble.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605100#Comment_605100

It looks like $60 is only about 5 percentage points behind $90; it shouldn't take that long to cross the line.

But it is still less than 80%. It was in the high 90s @ $90 before several people decided to lower their bids and pulled it back from reaching 100%. If it had reached 100% @ $90, then it would have had a chance of closing lower. Now, it will take sometime to reach 100%.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605118#Comment_605118

Hmm, yes, I seem to have misread the chart. It seems it is closer to 10% behind. Funny how that can happen, even though something is right there in front of you and you see it and comprehend it, some niggly little brain fart can introduce a dichotomous operation sequence that makes sense in itself, but is not in sync with the bigger picture. It happens in Bible study and theological contemplation all the time--in other people, of course. [;)]

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605118#Comment_605118

It looks like $60 is only about 5 percentage points behind $90; it shouldn't take that long to cross the line.

But it is still less than 80%. It was in the high 90s @ $90 before several people decided to lower their bids and pulled it back from reaching 100%. If it had reached 100% @ $90, then it would have had a chance of closing lower. Now, it will take sometime to reach 100%.

The point for those lowering their bid was probably to avoid it going over today (and closing Friday) and give it until next week. But then again, since it's #4 on the bestseller list (save the freebie), I don't expect a couple of users changing their bids to make such a difference - unless it really was a very significant number who followed David's advice.

Maybe Logos just finalized their production calculation and the threshold grew by a small amount.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605145#Comment_605145

I don't expect a couple of users changing their bids to make such a difference - unless it really was a very significant number who followed David's advice.

Well, I've never found that I've had that much pull in the past, so I don't see why that should change now. [:P]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/604459#Comment_604459

Noticed $ 105 and $ 90 have peaks 88 %. If enough bidders with amounts higher than $ 90 reduced their bids to $ 90, projected price would drop to $ 90 that could attract more bidders.

This seems to be the prevailing belief. On a recent thread this belief seems to be debunked. Anyone want to comment?

Every bid amount above $ 90 is included in the $ 90 progress. Reducing $ 105 bids to $90 would keep the $ 90 peak as is while reducing $ 105 progress. Below 100 % coverage of estimated production costs, projected price shows bid amount with the most progress. When community pricing has a closing bid date, projected price shows lowest amount across all bids that covers 100 % of estimated production costs.

Keep Smiling

I have always believed this reasoning to be correct and it is still the view that I have despite the fact that on a recent thread, this belief was debunked by a few people, particularly MJ Smith, fgh, Denise, NB Nick, Steve and Bruce Dunning.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605157#Comment_605157

I have always believed this reasoning to be correct and it is still the view that I have despite the fact that on a recent thread, this belief was debunked by a few people, particularly MJ Smith, fgh, Denise, NB Nick, Steve and Bruce Dunning.

Read again.

KS4J is not saying the same as you were. He's saying the same as the rest of us.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605162#Comment_605162

Thanks fgh. I have re read it as you suggested and still completely agree with what KS4J is saying and always have agreed with that strategy.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605164#Comment_605164

Here in Sedona, quite a number of people strongly believe the sun comes up in the north and goes down in the south. Actually, they believe it comes up in the east and goes down in the west, but the compass is moved 90 degrees. And so, north is where the sun comes up.

Interestingly, everyone laughs about it, since we all went to elementary school, high school and college. But intuition (and presumably the iron-laden sandstone here) completely over-rides 'logic'. I've read similar stories in other areas too.

Not referring to Mark, but CP does have an intuitive feel that doesn't match what Logos actually does.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605180#Comment_605180

Thanks Denise [:)]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605145#Comment_605145

unless it really was a very significant number who followed David's advice.

Maybe Logos just finalized their production calculation and the threshold grew by a small amount.

Either one is possible. Time will tell if David's strategy is correct. I did lower my previous bid to $90.

JohnB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605100#Comment_605100

Obviously the video portion has been completed.

See http://www.patheos.com/blogs/bibleandculture/2014/06/24/my-godfather-starring-in-apocalypse-soon/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bibleandculture_062514UTC010604_daily&utm_content=&spMailingID=46308094&spUserID=Nzg4MDYwMTI4MzQS1&spJobID=463256029&spReportId=NDYzMjU2MDI5S0

>>Who knew that when I went to film a course for Logos in Everett Washington, they would turn me into the Godfather? I suppose they thought that when they offered my course on Johannine Literature they were making ya’ll an offer you couldn’t (or shouldn’t refuse)<<

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/605157#Comment_605157

I have always believed this reasoning to be correct and it is still the view that I have despite the fact that on a recent thread, this belief was debunked by a few people, particularly MJ Smith, fgh, Denise, NB Nick, Steve and Bruce Dunning.

This is a case which is easily proven one way or the other. Do the math. Don't trust your intuition when it disagrees with math.