indexing fails every time new resource is added...

anyone have the link to how to start logs and find them? I assume someone will want to see them.

anyway, here is the symptom: whenever I get a new book/resource and the index needs to start, it fails. no error messages, it just stops. it appears that it is all running on the screen. in L5, the yellow message bar says indexing is taking place. when I move the cursor to the task bar to hover the Logos icon to see how much is left, the icon disappears. I have tried leaving it this way for days, but nothing is happening. I have tried exiting and restarting l5, and it appears to restart indexing. when I leave it alone for a long period of time, a day or more, and again hover the icon to get percentage (the message bar in logos does not say), the icon disappears.

my workaround is that when this happens, after several attempts at trying to let it go on its own, I simply give it the command to rebuild index. when I do this, it never fails, but since it is a full rebuild, it takes a long time, usually a couple days.

ASUS EP121 tablet PC (not a tablet device, this is not running win8rt, it is full win8.1 pro with media, 64bit)
win 8.1, 4 gig RAM, C: 128g SSD (118g noted, over 33g free)
128g SD card available as well (35g free)

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anyone have the link to how to start logs and find them? I assume someone will want to see them.

Please see http://wiki.logos.com/Diagnostic_Logging

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/598425#Comment_598425

perfect, thanks. logs enclosed0358.logs.zip

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/598427#Comment_598427

Hi Brent,

It looks like we are getting an "Unauthorized access" exception. THis means there are permissions issues somewhere before in in the Logos directory. Please follow our "Error Writing to File" article will walk you through what that looks like: https://www.logos.com/support/logos5/windows/error-writing-to-file. Don't bother with the "Temporary Workaround." If fixing the permissions to the folder doesn't' fix the issue try troubleshooting the index.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/598715#Comment_598715

I will try this. though I am surprised that it started "al of the sudden", with no special changes to my configuration, or other software installations. my tablet PC, almost never has changes, other than MS updates and Logos updates. and really can't test until I get another resource added - since it always works when I start a manual "rebuild index".

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/598718#Comment_598718

part one comments. using win8.1, I had to go to the start/metro screen for the icon. when I followed the instructions, it lead me to:
C:\users\MyLoginName\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Progrms

This appeared to be incorrect based on the screenshots in the above link for troubleshooting.

I noticed that there was a L5 shortcut there, so I performed the steps on THAT shortcut, and lead me to the place that it seemed to show in the screenshots (leaving me at "local", and changing permissions to Logos5).

Part 2 - open advanced settings - this seemed to go okay, but the notes mention that I am getting this error because I am not the owner of this folder, It says I am, but the note also says: even if the owner appears correct), continuing...

part 3 changing owners - following the win8 instructions - (step one did not mention that I would have to approve UAC). everything else seemed to go as noted. (though I see no difference in ownership or advanced system security information).

restarted that computer.

went shopping! (woohoo I love these excuses to go shopping for Logos library resources.)

bought a resource (wow, I thought I had all those, good thing I checked)

started L5 on the Tablet PC, waiting for it to come up... (playing jeopardy them in my brain)

received email confirmation of resource

initiated "Update Now" command, "Checking for updates"...

waited 5 minutes (while waiting, this automatically happened on my desktop, so I restarted and it is indexing as normal, but beside the point for this thread, other than to portray performance/speed challenge) - started download, finished. I clicked to restart...

L5 restarting and loading, ("preparing library" showing, looks okay so far)...

(desktop is at 21% at this point, again besides the point, but since I started, thought I would mention it. - oh and desktop is network-wired to router, tablet PC is wireless; which is what I blame for these minor performance issues)

Tablet PC is coming up to main screen now, without touching anything or moving the mouse, the screen has the yellow bar that mentions that the library is indexing (not first time, as it does when I give the rebuild index command).

once the main screen came up, and there is no more "clocking", I moved the mouse to task bar to see the index status. as soon as I hover over the L5 icon, it disappears.

that did not fix it. (closed L5, launched again, just to be sure, and it does the same thing, closed again)

here are the logs again.

0654.140603Logs.zip

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/598727#Comment_598727

I had to go to the start/metro screen for the icon.

Do you have a Logos icon on your Desktop or the Task bar? If not ignore Step 1.

Part 2 - open advanced settings - this seemed to go okay, but the notes mention that I am getting this error because I am not the owner of this folder, It says I am, but the note also says: even if the owner appears correct), continuing...

This is the error

Error IndexerProgram Unhandled exception: System.UnauthorizedAccessException: Access to the path 'C:\Users\Brent.Hoefling\AppData\Local\Logos5\Data\anpd45s3.3ux\LibraryIndex\supplemental-build.lxn' is denied.

There is some permissions problem somewhere down the path. You could remove the Library index or just that single file, but I would first try verifying permissions first as it is less time consuming.

If you're unable to access the Logos directory in the way prescribed in the article try pasting the file path into the Windows Explorer address bar: C:\Users\Brent.Hoefling\AppData\Local\ and then following steps 3

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/598750#Comment_598750

There is an icon on the task bar. but right-click has no option to open destination'

I was able to follow step 3 previously as noted. also, I can tell it to perform a "rebuild index" - and this works. the only time this issue happens is when a new resource is added and the secondary index build happens. This is not a folder permissions issue, and if it is a file-permission issue, that is something within L5 that is causing it, that probably needs addressed.

When I go to that folder, there is no file named supplemental-build.lxn, it is apparently a transitional file. so when I check permissions on the local folder and even specifically check the LibraryIndex folder, permissions are full for my id. (and have reset them as delineated above as well).

don't these get removed and rebuilt upon a rebuild index command (which I have had to perform manually each time I receive a new resource, so at least weekly, the last couple months)?

I need the system tomorrow evening, so is there anything else I can try (while it is in this state of non-index-completion) before doing the full rebuild again, as it takes overnight and through tomorrow to complete.

perhaps something to do with the index.idx file being nearly 8gig? surely I am not the only one with a huge library.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/598758#Comment_598758

I think you should probably call us at this point. We're open until 6pm PDT. The number is 800-875-6467.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/598766#Comment_598766

i will try to call when I get a chance, and tech support is available. one more additional note. I just replaced my tablet PC with another, newer model tablet PC. got it all loaded and installed L5 great. between downloading all resources and first time indexing, took only two days (this is actually a good time, it took 3 days on the previous system and well over 2 days on my Lenovo desktop.

In any case and back to this topic. I have now had the new system a week or so and guess what (rhetorical) - yehp, received a new resource (ambrose letters) and I also acquired the free book of the month for July - and yes, even on the new system, the indexing fails and the only way to make it complete is to use the "rebuild index" command, that takes all evening and overnight to complete.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/606575#Comment_606575

From what I've observed, this niggling problem with indexing does come up from time to time. Unfortunately nobody's figured out exactly what causes it. The problem could go away on its own.

It would be great if you could call support and turn your computer over to the tech folks. Maybe they can isolate the problem and its causes.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/606577#Comment_606577

just got update 5.2 sr7, then some resource updates after that. a reindex is starting. it appears to be going. we'll see...

edit - spoke too soon... my desktop is now indexing, but my new laptop/tablet PC died at index initiation. I'll call tech support in the morning.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608290#Comment_608290

talked with tech support this morning.

Essentially, they said the same thing as last time I called for this issue. essentially (I can't quote him, because I didn't record the call) there is a permissions issue. when looking at the log report, it showed there was a rights issue. So, I let him in and set my user ID to take ownership of the Logos 5 folder structure in the OS.

here's the interesting part.

On my laptop, he took control and went through the process to give my login ID the ownership permissions to the Logos 5 folder.

question/comment, this is a brand new computer, why would this need to happen? sounds like a problem in the installer.

then he deleted my index folders, and when L5 was launched, it started a first-time index. (indexing now). but that wasn't the issue! I could always set the command "Rebuild Index" and that always worked! it was only when adding new or updating resources were added - when the supplemental indexing and merging fails.

On my desktop, I already did that when I talked to support a while back when I first saw this issue. I had him connect to the desktop and verify. sure enough the permissions were correct. then he went in and renamed BibleIndex folder to .OLD, and same for LIbraryIndex folder (maybe he did other things, but didn't catch them, I had another call about then, I had to take)

so now my desktop seems to be doing a full index as well.

so now the waiting game begins again. wait for the indexes to complete, and then wait for another resource to be added or for me to buy one so that the supplemental index can start and my guess is - fail. (my negative experience here based on previously doing these very things - maybe I will be pleasantly surprised)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608387#Comment_608387

talked with tech support this morning.

Essentially, they said the same thing as last time I called for this issue. essentially (I can't quote him, because I didn't record the call) there is a permissions issue. when looking at the log report, it showed there was a rights issue. So, I let him in and set my user ID to take ownership of the Logos 5 folder structure in the OS.

This is strange indeed.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608389#Comment_608389

This is strange indeed.

especially considering the laptop/tablet PC (win8.1pro x64) was brand new, and the only thing I did before loading Logos was to update all the MS OS patches, then install McAfee AV (then disabled it prior to install of L5) didn't load any other software until after L5 was loaded and indexed for the first time.

wait and see...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608391#Comment_608391

This is strange indeed.

especially considering the laptop/tablet PC (win8.1pro x64) was brand new, and the only thing I did before loading Logos was to update all the MS OS patches, then install McAfee AV (then disabled it prior to install of L5) didn't load any other software until after L5 was loaded and indexed for the first time.
wait and see...

Well, I couldn't wait. bought a resource on my wishlist. having my systems check for updates; downloading; restarting desktop/restarting laptop...

(supplemental, not full reindex) indexing started for desktop/(supplemental, not full reindex) indexing starting for laptop...

indexer crashed on desktop (as I expected - bah)

indexer crashed on laptop also.

well, I guess I call tech support in the morning again.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608552#Comment_608552

well, I guess I call tech support in the morning again.

Don't let them perform a full index! The thing with permissions in Windows is that propagation to lower levels (or inheritance) can be hit, miss, or take a long time and permissions sometimes get messed up by MS during an upgrade/installation. Files created by Logos during indexing should not be an issue if its parent folder permissions state 1. "Full control" and that it applies to 2. "This folder, subfolders and files" AND that 3. "you" are the current Owner.

So I can only advise that you check all three conditions before getting onto Logos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608565#Comment_608565

Tech support MUST know what they're doing if they get remote access.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608565#Comment_608565

1. "Full control" and that it applies to
2. "This folder, subfolders and files" AND that
3. "you" are the current Owner.

So I can only advise that you check all three conditions before getting onto Logos.

These are set already. that is how they were set on the desktop from the last time I called tech support.

the laptop is brand-new, so part of my question is; why does this kind of file system level change even need to take place! the laptop has this set also.

yet the supplemental index failed on them both. I will call tech support again today. very frustrating.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608647#Comment_608647

update:

talked with the same second level tech.

action - desktop: disabled .net in control panel, rebooted, re-enabled. verified permissions and ownership. launched L5 and supplemental index seemed to start. one minor point of note. the indexer in the taskbar showed 0% complete the whole time, then finished. I know it actually finished instead of crashing, because when it completed, the yellow bar (indicating that indexing was taking place) in the L5 program went away; AND when I relaunched l5 (after a reboot, just to be sure) - no more indexing occurred. I tested by doing various searches with the new resource and it was very fast. Subnote: this was a supplemental index, not a full-first-time/rebuild - it only took 15 minutes or so, not the many hours it takes for a full index rebuild.

action: laptop: well, we just verified that the permissions and ownership were correct, then launched L5, and it performed the supplemental index as appropriate.

so, apparently they are fixed (again)...

I am going to buy another single resource and try again...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608729#Comment_608729

update: ...

so, apparently they are fixed (again)...

I am going to buy another single resource and try again...

went to Logos.com, bought 99cent - Being Shaped by Freedom: An Examination of Luther's Development of Christian Liberty, 1520-1525.

desktop: downloaded, install/restart; laptop: downloaded, install/restart

supplemental indexing commencing on laptop and desktop, and appear to be working for both! Woohoo!!

... (minutes passed since above text written) Yes! (arm pumping motion) they both indexed appropriately!

Conclusion from my perspective: Logos needs to further examine it's installation processes, AND the update processes as well. the tech mentioned and my experience verified that with win7/8 there are some issues with permissions changing or not set correctly. I say that Logos needs to further examine this because this issue happened on my brand new laptop, that hadn't even had a chance to be used and abuse to acquire any "corruption" at the file system level.

Further, I can also see that .NET corruption may have occurred on my desktop (the additional action item that was not checked on the laptop). Something, again, that Logos should be investigating for the above processes and perhaps a troubleshooting step that does a .NET verification during install/update, etc. so that this kind of issue is remediated.

These things only from my current experiences in Indexer troubles. I have a sticky note on my computer with the case number. why do I keep it, after everything seems to be working? My experience tells me that we aren't done yet. One final thing that I can not manually initiate for testing to verify that this is actually resolved: upgrade the L5 program.

Next time there is a service or version release, My plan will be to do this again. (if there are not resource updates following the code update, I will acquire a new resource and make sure supplemental indexing occurs appropriately.) - yes my confidence is shaken a bit at this point, even though everything seems to be working right now.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608733#Comment_608733

supplemental indexing commencing on laptop and desktop, and appear to be working for both! Woohoo!!

The Supplemental index is merged with your full index when the updated/new resources have been indexed, and it is deleted if the merge is successful. If it exists afterward, therefore, the indexing failed at some point. When the Indexer resumes it will attempt to re-use the supplemental index and this can result in another failure and thus get into a loop of crashing and restarting.

So if permissions are affected it is not directly caused by Logos, but it is a point of failure that they should address (and not only for this particular error), if only to prevent looping.

Further, I can also see that .NET corruption may have occurred on my desktop (the additional action item that was not checked on the laptop). Something, again, that Logos should be investigating for the above processes and perhaps a troubleshooting step that does a .NET verification during install/update, etc. so that this kind of issue is remediated.

I don't think this is realistic as .NET can be corrupted for many reasons that lie closer to its creator (or your hardware) than Logos!

I say that Logos needs to further examine this because this issue happened on my brand new laptop, that hadn't even had a chance to be used and abuse to acquire any "corruption" at the file system level.

Brand new machines are not exempt because corruption could occur in the original .NET installation or subsequent MS updates before you installed Logos.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608917#Comment_608917

I understand how that process works. the point is that the process itself should not assume that permissions are already available - unless that is a fully documented direction (this is not the best option, though as it requires the end user to perform technical checks).

As an application packaging engineer (not a developer), I do know that there are things that can be done as prerequisites for installation; including verifying functionality of needed resources and "middleware" resource installs and their functionality, especially when that functionality is required for the main application being installed.

I realize they are not exempt, the point was that this should be highly unlikely, and again, these prerequisite checks and functionality checks can be part of the installation and launching processes. I know, I have made this happen, and I am not even an application developer.

apparently this indexing issues is not as rare as I had thought, both techs I talked with recently, first and second level support at Logos, mentioned as much. my suggestions may be things they have already thought about in development, but perhaps not; and thus my suggestions listed and the reason I tried to follow up each time there was a call on the issue. as a packaging engineer, and as a technology manager, it has always been my motto, so to speak - the more documentation, the better. why? because almost without exception, IT and technology people thrive on building and developing with nearly no documentation, so when it is provided, they tend to resist, then accept, and review it.

jes' tryin' ta help.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608929#Comment_608929

update:

yesterday, received the Hebrew and Aramaic Pronunciations (finally!). no indexing required.

today received updates to: half a dozen resources:
New Sermons, Addresses, and Prayers
Revival Addresses
Sermons and Addresses
Sermons on Gospel Themes
Sermons on Important Subjects
Twelve Select Sermons

(supplemental) indexing has begun on both systems.

laptop/tablet PC completed - Desktop PC completed.

Yea!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609697#Comment_609697

Yea, indeed!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609756#Comment_609756

Lexham Bible Guide: Romans - added, indexing works. will stop updating now. am a very happy camper.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609875#Comment_609875

well, it started again. several updates recently and I notice the last two crashed on both systems. the second to the last crashed, and when I closed and restarted L5, it appeared to re-start (supplemental) indexing and complete. the last resource update did the same thing, only would not complete, and crashed/stopped a second and third time. finally just commanded the rebuild index for them. very disappointing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/625384#Comment_625384

Keep us informed, but start a new thread with logs if you want us to help, or contact Logos Tech Support for online diagnosis.

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