What happens to my commentaries if Logos goes belly-up?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623089#Comment_623089

Logos has 2.5 million users, thats a substantial customer base; Logos is more likely to be purchased in the event something tragic happens in bellingham than simply left to go belly up. The titles in Logos, and contracts with publishers not withstanding, there is some significant value here.

PLUS should something happen, you can always use the final version of Logos inside a virtual machine.

IE you can keep using the commentaries pretty much eternally.

Mike Johnson

I considered the virtual machine thing, too - it just makes me nervous, because I'm in college now and have 50-60 years of needing the resources I'm purchasing ahead of me. I don't want to build a $10,000 or more library and have to repurchase it.

I should probably ask this in its own forum - but can logos libraries be resold? I'd love to purchase someone's library used.

Mark Barnes

Hi Mike,

This has been addressed before. Whilst there are never any copper-bottomed guarantees, here are some official responses to that question:

(Bob Pritchett is Logos' CEO.)

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623092#Comment_623092

I should probably ask this in its own forum - but can logos libraries be resold? I'd love to purchase someone's library used.

Yes. There are certain conditions (you can't re-sell academic-priced resources to make a fast buck, you can't sell one resource out of a bundle, you can't keep re-transferring the same licence), and you have to pay Logos a $20 transfer fee.

Erik

If Logos ceases to exist, what will happen to my ability to access my purchases? I am thinking about buying a base package and two commentary sets, but I'm afraid of what might happen if the company ever ceased to exist... Is there some assurance that I'd be able to continue using the software? Has Logos ever addressed this in the past?

As Mark points out, there is sadly never any guarantee. Even with print volumes you daily risk destruction from flood, fire, or other acts of God. The security we really have is articulated in Bob's previous comments. I try not to worry about such a thing...but if someone were willing to provide digital media insurance as a new market, I'd be one of the first in line. [:D]

Mike

Welcome to the forum.

First Logos is not some new start-up company.

They have over 400 employees, there are many people with thousand $$$ invested in there own Library. Your Library is downloaded to your computer or device that you use Logos on, and then updates to the resources are also as Logos post them.

For me Logos is a safe company to get a Great Bible software program that we use our commentaries on, my Library is only close 2,000 resources at this time which is kinda small but I have only been part of the Logos family of users for four years now.

Also on the Forum we try to help answer your questions and guide you to better use the Logos program.

Bob Pritchett the CEO has done a great job with the Logos Company and for my short time of four years it is only getting better.

Go ahead and order your Base package, and commentaries. And welcome again to a large new family in Christ brother.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623098#Comment_623098

3 things to remember, if Logos went under.

Your installed desktop software would still function fully. There would just be no ongoing support officially (but with such a huge user base there well might rise up user based patches).

You still would own your licences to the books you have (no updates would be happening and there would be no way to transfer purchases).

Lastly Mobile would be the biggest hit. With so much of their functionality needing Logos servers. Also the files you had on you mobile device would be it since it requires the Logos cloud to install books.

But as has been stated above it is very unlikely that Logos will be heading out of business anytime soon. Logos is a company that has been around a long time and seems to be from all signs a well run company.

-Dan

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623101#Comment_623101

Software that has developed the following of Logos would most likely be purchased in any financially insolvency - even if the purchaser merely kept the product running in changing OS environments, it would take some time for the resources to become unusable. Of course, if a tsunami wipes out Bellingham, Mt. Baker explodes and covers Bellingham in a lava flow (okay a lahar is more likely), if the Boulder Creek Fault pops up by 30 feet destroying all buildings in downtown Bellingham, if the terrorist take out Grand Coulee dam in a way that destroys all dams downstream and the PNW lacks electricity ... I'm not about to try to predict what sort of interruption of service some of us might have.[:O]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623101#Comment_623101

Mike ... speaking to your actual question (if Logos goes bellyup), you'll be up a creek without a paddle:

- Are you expert in the combination of Windows/Mac and Logos?

- Do you know what to do when Windows or Mac upgrades their operating system? And your Logos stops working?

- If your Logos hiccups, are you prepared to dial the Logos customer service number and get a message from the telephone company?

There are more questions, but these simply address your 'if' statement. Even now, you can literally count on one of your hands how many folks can help you here on the forum. Maybe some ex-Logos employees may want to start a company to help you?

Next, you say 50-60 years. Which planet did you arrive on? Think back 50-60 years. That'd be the Korean war. Early Vietnam. Remember any companies back then that are still in business? Doing what they used to do? Owned by the same people? (Like Bob). My parents owned a Kirby vacume cleaner. Kirby??

Are your questions realistic? If you're going into the ministry, Bible software is one of your tools. Nothing more. Tools break. You replace them.

Now, I share your concern, so I'm not trying to be offensive. I just don't appreciate pablum answers, when realistically, you'll need at some point to re-purchase. Just plan accordingly.

Greg

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623106#Comment_623106

If Logos goes belly up, I'm converting all of my resources to Word files and PDFs.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623106#Comment_623106

Now, I share your concern, so I'm not trying to be offensive. I just don't appreciate pablum answers, when realistically, you'll need at some point to re-purchase. Just plan accordingly.

Not to belittle you sound advice if Logos went under I would have a Virtual Machine set up so fast... I am still using old OS 9 software I liked in a VM it would take little to make one for OS 10.9 especially seeing i have Parallels sitting on my mac unused now.

-Dan

Ann Hudson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623106#Comment_623106

Mike ...

...you say 50-60 years. Which planet did you arrive on? Think back 50-60 years. That'd be the Korean war. Early Vietnam.

Are your questions realistic? If you're going into the ministry, Bible software is one of your tools. Nothing more. Tools break. You replace them.

Now, I share your concern, so I'm not trying to be offensive. I just don't appreciate pablum answers, when realistically, you'll need at some point to re-purchase. Just plan accordingly.

[Y][Y][Y]

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623106#Comment_623106

Logos may not be around 60 years from now.

If I buy a pretty new red Ford pickup it sure will be nice! But in about 20 years I may have to buy another. Ford may not even be in business.

Here is a bad case scenario: Imagine Mt Baker blew up setting off Rainier--yet today, mind you. Boom! Bye Bye Bellingham. Owell. America isn't my problem. I don't live there.

Where I live my current version of Logos still ought to work on existing computers and operating systems for another 5 years. If OS's and computers change too much, I will load Logos on the most recent working system and keep the old dinosaur around another 5 years.

That buys 10 years.

By then the Lord will return.

If that really happens and I'm stone cold flat broke (and the Lord doesn't return), I'll ask to use my pastor's software. He may be using something called "δυσἀστήρ ανάκτηση" or maybe "ἀνανήφω."

PS. Perfect Love casts out fear. Jn 4:18

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623106#Comment_623106

speaking to your actual question (if Logos goes bellyup), you'll be up a creek without a paddle:

What Denise meant to write:

"speaking to your actual question (if Logos goes bellyup and no one purchases the software development rights), you'll be up a creek without a paddle"

But she did write what she meant when she wrote:

If you're going into the ministry, Bible software is one of your tools. Nothing more. Tools break. You replace them.

Technology changes - storage media becomes obselete - what does and does not get converted into a new format is somewhat unpredicable...

William Gabriel

If Logos ceases to exist, what will happen to my ability to access my purchases? I am thinking about buying a base package and two commentary sets, but I'm afraid of what might happen if the company ever ceased to exist... Is there some assurance that I'd be able to continue using the software? Has Logos ever addressed this in the past?

We'll start a community effort at open source logos. It wouldn't be as good, but it would not be terribly difficult to write a decrypter and reader implementation for logos resources.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623120#Comment_623120

I wouldn't be surprised if people haven't already wanted to buy Logos. Lifeway bought two software companies. Wouldn't surprise me if they had made offers on Logos as well.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623092#Comment_623092

I'm in college now and have 50-60 years of needing the resources I'm purchasing ahead of me.

No, you don't. In 50-60 years, vast amounts of what Logos sells will be completely worthless, and the rest will be in the "personal firmware" of those who made it into the Kingdom.

"I know kung-fu!"

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623129#Comment_623129

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/4631.aspx

Is a thread on exactly this where Bob answers this question.

I am surprised to say it, but I agree with David - I wouldn't be surprised to see the Lord return before 60 years (yeesh, I'll be in my ninetys). Thats not a prediction. I'm not one to set dates. But I will be more surprised if Christ hasn't returned by then.

Kent

If Logos ceases to exist, what will happen to my ability to access my purchases? I am thinking about buying a base package and two commentary sets, but I'm afraid of what might happen if the company ever ceased to exist... Is there some assurance that I'd be able to continue using the software? Has Logos ever addressed this in the past?

¹⁹Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

²⁰But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

²¹For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623133#Comment_623133

¹⁹Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

²⁰But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

²¹For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

I wish the Logos forums had a like button.

[Y]

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623130#Comment_623130

I am surprised to say it, but I agree with David

LOL...This is the lead-in to the majority of the "I agree with David" statements I read or hear.

¹⁹Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

²⁰But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

²¹For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

I my estimation, Logos deals in some of both.

Lonnie Spencer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623134#Comment_623134

"Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher, vanity of vanities! All is vanity! What does man gain by all the toil at which he toils under the sun? A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever." Ecclesiastes 1:2-4

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623093#Comment_623093

Hi Mike,

This has been addressed before. Whilst there are never any copper-bottomed guarantees, here are some official responses to that question:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/4631/36347.aspx#36347

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/62707/442826.aspx#442826

(Bob Pritchett is Logos' CEO.)

Based on the CEO's response, I believe worse case scenario would be Zondercrooks (A.K.A. Zondervan) buying out Logos!!! That would be a total nightmare!!!

I hope and pray Logos stays a private owned company and not be purchased by some greedy company who doesn't care about customers (e.g. Zondervan).

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623143#Comment_623143

We may not know the time of his coming, but we can look at some sign that lead to his coming. But we should always seek to be ready for his coming.

Mark 13:32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623143#Comment_623143

The funny thing about these discussions is that 15 years ago, when I bought the entire NICOT/NICNT set in dead-tree format, I wasn't worried at all about whether it was a good investment, and would last, or not. But less then 10 years later I sold the lot for half what I paid for it, and bought it all again in Logos format. It was hard to sell. No-one really wanted to lose 10 feet of shelf space.

In other words, dead-tree purchases are a really poor alternative to Logos editions if the aim is to minimise future exposure and expense. In a changing market, everything's a risk – but Logos is less of a risk than the alternatives, I think.

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623219#Comment_623219

The funny thing about these discussions is that 15 years ago, when I bought the entire NICOT/NICNT set in dead-tree format, I wasn't worried at all about whether it was a good investment, and would last, or not. But less then 10 years later I sold the lot for half what I paid for it, and bought it all again in Logos format. It was hard to sell. No-one really wanted to lose 10 feet of shelf space.

In other words, dead-tree purchases are a really poor alternative to Logos editions if the aim is to minimise future exposure and expense. In a changing market, everything's a risk – but Logos is less of a risk than the alternatives, I think.

[Y][Y]

Come on in. The water is fine.

Paul C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623220#Comment_623220

HJ. van der Wal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623095#Comment_623095

Even with print volumes you daily risk destruction

Especially with books printed between 1850 and 1995. Many of these volumes have already turned to dust.

A comprehensive list of dangers can be found on the UNESCO website.

In other words, dead-tree purchases are a really poor alternative to Logos editions if the aim is to minimise future exposure and expense. In a changing market, everything's a risk – but Logos is less of a risk than the alternatives, I think.

[Y]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623245#Comment_623245

Actually quite the opposite. Many of them have risen in value to such a degree that PDFs and Logos are the only realistic choices.

I fully expect owners to defend their decision since they're pretty much in a lock. That's the name of the modern publishing game.

But it's naive to say 'books' are a major risk while digital is less so. One ignores the obvious probabilities. Logos ALREADY almost bit the dust. Hello.

I can read my Dad's books from the late 40s any time I visit (and do). I can also read his notes, little papers stuck here and there, and gather his thoughts. I can't imagine trying to turn on his PC, and use his Bible software. My sister makes a valient effort to at least get the emails to work.

Although I think people believe they own something valuable (they paid big bucks for it), the movement from person A to person B is tenuous, after a time. Even a paper library. Bible software should be viewed as an enhancement of the present, and a very good one at that.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623282#Comment_623282

Just think if we did not have Logos and had every book in print what would it take to carry all of your library with you. Mine is only about 1900 books or resources which I would have to have some kind of book truck... but every day just put ultrabook in my backpack and i'm on the road again. Logos is Great!

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623134#Comment_623134

I wish the Logos forums had a like button.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623143#Comment_623143

Hi Mike,

This has been addressed before. Whilst there are never any copper-bottomed guarantees, here are some official responses to that question:

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/4631/36347.aspx#36347

http://community.logos.com/forums/p/62707/442826.aspx#442826

(Bob Pritchett is Logos' CEO.)

Based on the CEO's response, I believe worse case scenario would be Zondercrooks (A.K.A. Zondervan) buying out Logos!!! That would be a total nightmare!!!

I hope and pray Logos stays a private owned company and not be purchased by some greedy company who doesn't care about customers (e.g. Zondervan).

DAL

Well I have no idea why Zondervan would want two Bible software package. Their parent company already bought Olivetree. I know it has been mentioned lifeway having bought two companies but I believe the merger of Quickverse and Wordsearch was in the works prior to lifeway.

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623300#Comment_623300

I wish the Logos forums had a like button.

Isn't that what Facebook is for??? [:D]

-Dan

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623394#Comment_623394

Punched that LIKE button so hard I cracked my screen.

John Goodman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623407#Comment_623407

If indeed there is a dark and stormy night when logos goes belly up then my plan is to purchase 2 or 3 cheap pcs and install it on each from my backups. Then said computers will become prized archives which need to be kept working at all cost!

btw not surprised if in the new creation we actually find time to read all our books... but then they won't seem so interesting when we can have a beer with Jesus;)

John A. Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623430#Comment_623430

There is always risk. My paper library, built over 34 years, cost me more than the dollars I've spent on Logos, yet I doubt the cost and value is the same for others. A flood, fire, etc. could cause me to lose it all tomorrow, and over the years I have had some loss and replacement cost. However, it's value is still worth it to me as long as I'm living, because it's a useful tool in my toolbox.

The same is true for my digital library, the biggest tool in that arsenal being Logos. That's why it's important to use the tools you have today, to accomplish the tasks ahead. Purchase what you will use, what offers you the most benefit for the dollars you spend, and what will make your ministry and personal walk of faith most effective.

Determine the level of risk that you're comfortable maintaining.

That being said, in my opinion, Logos has one of the smallest digital risk footprints of the resources I have purchased and managed. I have used it since 1998, and it continues to grow with my needs. When I first began using Logos, it wasn't my software of choice. I've used Bible software since about 1993, and over time invested in software products from five different companies between 1993 - 2000. Some of those have now gone by the wayside, some haven't grown with me, some have changed through mergers, etc. Logos has been the only one to hold its own for 16 years, and I expect that I could easily get another 16 - 25 years of use based on the company's current performance.

Should the company disappear tomorrow, the computing environment change dramatically, so that I was unable to run the software in 2 - 5 years, etc., I would still be happy with the value I've gained from the product. Unlike the purchase of a car, which depreciates over the years, Logos has continued to increase in value for me. It has been more cost-effective than my college degree, and I received more overall value as well, which I can carry beyond the life of the company should it unexpectedly go the way of the dinosaurs.

Silent Sam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623430#Comment_623430

If indeed there is a dark and stormy night when logos goes belly up then my plan is to purchase 2 or 3 cheap pcs and install it on each from my backups. Then said computers will become prized archives which need to be kept working at all cost!

[^o)] HHHMMMmmm~~~ [^o)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623135#Comment_623135

I am surprised to say it, but I agree with David

LOL...This is the lead-in to the majority of the "I agree with David" statements I read or hear.

¹⁹Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

²⁰But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

²¹For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

I my estimation, Logos deals in some of both.

So when properly used, one uses logos to store up treasures in heaven, but improperly used one is storing up on treasures here on earth. I'm with you there too.

Jeesh David, twice in one day

quick say something I disagree with wouldn't want to make a habit out of this.

Just kidding brother.

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/623498#Comment_623498

We old duffers still think the future looks like it did in 1970. Adobe has some interesting insights in digital trends worth noting, although I am inclined to trust the trends my children see even more.

They think computers are so last winter. Oh, they still use then for what they must. For them it's all about smart devices. In college. Out of college. In the work place. On the street. In church and at Bible study.

Yet, oddly, they still choose a lot of paper books. Maybe I am too old to get it. They don't have some future plan for technology investment. They say the future is changing so much so fast that that they need to be invest in being good stewards of what they have today, knowing they can't really imagine many tomorrows--but, technologically, tomorrow will probably work out just like today did. They just use what works fast and well for them now.

I wonder how youth see Logos--what the age demographics are for new Logos users?