Latest update and E-Ink E-Readers
I have two E-Ink E-readers here that run Android: a Boyue T62 that runs Android 4.2.2 (the one I use most often now) and an Onyx Boox T68 that runs Android 4.04. I have recently upgraded both to the latest Verbum Android app. Before the upgrade, both ran Verbum/Logos very well. Now, the Boyue continues to do well, after initially telling me that it couldn't write to the SD card. The Onyx, however, didn't have the "write to sd card" issue, but when I go to read any resource, each page is completely black. Not sure what that is about. Good thing I have the Boyue. Anyone else with the Onyx T68 have that problem?
Comments
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I just upgraded the Logos app on my Onyx Boox T68. Now the reading screen is completely black. My device is worthless now. I hope Faithlife fixes this right away. I'm dead in the water.
I am surprised that Faithlife is not embracing the open E-Ink devices. They are such a perfect solution for what many potential buyers consider to be the largest drawback to a digital library: The inability to have easy access to your library in an eye-friendly format.
Until today the Boox T68 fit the bill perfectly! The only drawback was that the Logos app did not utilize the physical page turn button and one had to rely on swiping. When I emailed Faithlife about this they replied that they had no intention of supporting e-ink devices... !?! What a missed opportunity! Now, the new update has broken by Book completely. I invested over $5k in Faithlife products in the last 3 months once I found an compatible e-ink reader. I sincerely hope that Faithlife will respond and correct this problem.
Evan
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E-Ink devices are not currently supported and I don't know whether this will change in the future.
I've asked the team if we can increase the minimum API level of our 4.4.x apps which will allow E-Ink users to stay on the working Logos 4.3.9 version instead of getting updated to the newer 4.4 branch of the Faithlife apps.
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Kevin, that would be a great idea. I have met a number of people online who have purchased Android E-Ink devices (as I have) - and they are NOT easy to find - mainly to read our Logos/Verbum resources, as any Kindle or Kobo or Nook would do for eBooks alone. An E-Ink device is often easier on the eyes. What I don't understand is why one E-Ink eReader (the Onyx T68) has the black pages, while the Boyue T62 does not. That would suggest to me that the problem may not be E-Ink as such. In any case, people with E-Ink devices could revert to 4.3.9, that would be a help. Wasn't the main purpose of this upgrade simply to make the app more compatible with Lollipop anyway?
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I have found that my Verbum Android app has worked very well on my E-Ink devices (up until now for the T68!). The only things that Faithlife would need to do to make the app more E-Ink friendly, IMHO, are (1) offer a new "theme" that would make everything look even better in grayscale, and (2) make some change so that the page turn physical buttons will turn pages in the app. As it is, the page turn physical buttons on both devices turn pages on iBreviary and Divine Office.
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I'm not sure that any effort whatsoever will be going into supporting E-Ink devices. I'll find out more tomorrow.
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Kevin,
Thank you for your reply. I am pleased to hear a response from Faithlife and a possible solution.
I wholeheartedly agree with Mark. It's not like there is a plethora of e-ink devices that need 'supported'. There are only several out there run an open Android platform and thus Logos. Adding a grayscale option (user pref) and allowing the use of physical page buttons would be about all the 'support' these devices would need. It makes such good sense to me, I don't understand why Faithlife wouldn't be all over this. A near perfect reading device that runs Logos!!
Kevin or Mark, do either of you have any idea of how to roll back my Logos App?
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I know you folks at Faithlife deal with at least four OS's and several apps, and so you may not be able to put much effort into a "niche" group. But I, for one, will appreciate anything you can do.
Now, if Kindle started using Android as their OS (fat chance, I know), wouldn't that be a game-changer?
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I think open Android e-readers will quickly become the future and even Amazon will be forced to open things up. Faithlife would do well to pay attention to this coming trend.
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Evan Scamman said:
Kevin or Mark, do either of you have any idea of how to roll back my Logos App?
I haven't been able to figure that one out yet. We'd need access to the 4.3.9 app, for one, but I've never tried rolling back before.
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Evan Scamman said:
Thank you for your reply. I am pleased to hear a response from Faithlife and a possible solution.
The possible solution would simply allow you to run Logos 4.3.9 and be stuck there forever, unless something else changes.
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Evan Scamman said:
I think open Android e-readers will quickly become the future and even Amazon will be forced to open things up. Faithlife would do well to pay attention to this coming trend.
Thanks for the advice, but until trends become fact it's hard to make a business case.
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Yikes. Glad I'm at 4.3.9 on the T68. But disappointed something happened with the latest Android version to cause a dark screen.
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In order to support scrolling, the view the text is rendered to had to be changed to a hardware accelerated view (TextureView for those curious).
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For me, this is a good reminder to root my device and use an app like Titanium Backup. That way, I can easily revert to a previous app version when there is a glitch.
I solved my problem. I remembered that I had an sd card I had used in a Kobo Aura HD to run Android with. I got the 4.3.9 app from that, uninstalled from the T68 and reinstalled. Now, the app is redownloading my resources. Next time, I use Titanium Backup!
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What about an option to turn TextureView off? This would expand the number of devices that can run the app.
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[Y][Y][Y]
[H]
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Kevin Byford said:
Thanks for the advice, but until trends become fact it's hard to make a business case.
It is a certainty that the demand would be there for a device that could run Faithlife apps in the future. We're just early adopters. I was just speaking to a colleague yesterday who had a physical library of 15000 plus books who hasn't invested anymore into Logos because they cannot stand reading on a computer screen. I personally just got an Onyx Boox Afterglow 2 and the experience of Logos on it is so much easier on the eyes. The app is also quite functional.
I'm confident that if Logos was to do a deal with Onyx and package e-readers with pre-installed software on a trial - you would see them get snapped up very quickly!
P.S. for those still swiping, a tap on the side of the screen will also turn the page
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Randle,
I completely agree. I held off on my purchase of Logos software until I found the Boox device. I wasn't going to invest until I had a solution for extended reading on the couch.
If Faithlife doesn't decide to do a full-blow solution like you suggest, at least I hope they will recognize that e-ink addresses a huge concern for users. A small investment of programming time to minimally ensure that future updates don't 'break' the e-readers would pay dividends.
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If Faithlife were to do a customer survey, and if in that survey they asked about interest in E-Ink devices, they might be surprised at the level of interest out there. The reverse may also be true. Apps like Logos and Verbum could help sell Android E-Ink devices. Not everyone needs to play Angry Birds or Candy Crush on the same device they use to study Scripture!
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Well - this is the tool they've given us to voice our opinion. I just created a suggestion
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I'm happy to see conversations about this here, and I also hope that faithlife begins to notice ereaders as a viable option. I'm also a Onyx Boox T68 owner, but I'm disappointed with the quality of the device. I guess that's the price of being an early adopter.
When I upgrade to Logos 6, I will try the send-to-kindle feature, but I like having the ability to highlight and put notes in Logos from the ereader.
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I think I'd be happier if they had a more accurate touch screen and more application space. Overall I'm happy it serves the purpose. What would you like to see improved?Frank H said:I'm disappointed with the quality of the device. I guess that's the price of being an early adopter.
Me too. I can't be bothered with the inefficiency of having my highlights in another place where they are less useful!Frank H said:but I like having the ability to highlight and put notes in Logos from the ereader.
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Randle Bond said:
What would you like to see improved?
I have many of the same problems that people have in the Amazon reviews here
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Kevin,
Are you aware of any solution for those of us that need to roll back to the previous version in order to have functional e-readers again?
Thanks!
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Evan Scamman said:
Kevin,
Are you aware of any solution for those of us that need to roll back to the previous version in order to have functional e-readers again?
Thanks!
Since the Faithlife 4.4.x Android apps require Android 4.0 *and* hardware accelerated graphics (which E-Ink devices might not have), we're looking into creating a download site for version 4.3.9 of the apps.
Note that newer features implemented in future versions of Logos Desktop and/or the mobile apps will *not* be implemented in 4.3.9.
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For those who may be thinking of buying an e-ink device to use with Faithlife apps, let me point out that the Boyue T62 works just fine with 4.4.6 and gives a better overall user experience than the Onyx T68. The Boyue is smaller (6 in. display) but it has more room for apps and data and, with a little tweaking, very good battery life. It also costs less than the T68. Onyx now offers the AfterGlow 2, which has similar specs to the T62.
I wonder if there is any way to know what percentage of Faithlife customers use e-ink devices. Whatever the percentage may be, I hope that Faithlife can keep us in mind. Yes, the send to Kindle feature is great for reading Faithlife resources on a Kindle device. But that's not as satisfying as being able to work with resources from within a Faithlife app!
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Please alert us when the download site is ready. Thanks![Y]
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I have uploaded my Verbum 4.3.9 apk to my Dropbox site. I don't know if it's legit to paste a link here. If it is, I'll do so.
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Mark,
Thanks for uploading the file. Perhaps you could email me the link?
My email is escamman at iCloud dot com.
Thanks!
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Anyone know if the newer Onyx BOOX Afterglow 2 can handle the newer Logos Android release without showing a black screen? Thanks!
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Yep, I'm using the afterglow 2 and loving it!0
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No black screen issues and I believe it is now available on Amazon. Check out my review here https://community.logos.com/forums/p/97340/671222.aspx#6712220
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Randle... Thanks much!
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Kevin Byford said:
Since the Faithlife 4.4.x Android apps require Android 4.0 *and* hardware accelerated graphics (which E-Ink devices might not have), we're looking into creating a download site for version 4.3.9 of the apps.
Note that newer features implemented in future versions of Logos Desktop and/or the mobile apps will *not* be implemented in 4.3.9.
Kevin
Shall I wait for this download site? I've got my eink reader mainly for the Bible softwares, though OliveTree & CBD reader still can be used in my eink device, portion of my books(around 3800) are in Logos, do hope that Logos can be use on it.
Blessings,
Nit
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Bible 4.3.9 is available for direct download at http://downloads.logos.com/Android/Logos/stable/Logos-287.apk.
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Many Thanks Dave. Glad to get back my Logos on the e ink device.[:D]
Nit
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Will this work on a kindle paper white? if so, how?
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No, this is an Android app that runs on the Android operating system. The Kindle PW uses a different operating system. The closest you can come, if you have Logos 6 on your desktop or laptop, is that you can send individual resources to your Kindle to read them there.
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Today I was trying to open one of my commentaries, Baker Exegetical Commentary on Acts, to find out that my T68 with Logos app 4.3.9 won't display this commentary.
Does this mean I'll have to buy another e-reader to keep reading my books/commentaries?
If so, do you have some suggestions for e-readers supporting the new Logos for Android app?0 -
It sounds strange that one commentary wouldn't open. If it is offline perhaps the commentary is corrupted and needs to be downloaded again?
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Simon said:
Today I was trying to open one of my commentaries, Baker Exegetical Commentary on Acts, to find out that my T68 with Logos app 4.3.9 won't display this commentary.
This resource requires Logos 4.5.0 or higher in order to display properly.
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Really, Logos ought to get their act together and update the app, so that e-ink screen android devices can read the Logos ressources!
More and more E-ink devices will surface in the future. And more and more E-ink devices will also be Android powered. Simply NOT supporting them is not a viable sollution to an issue like this.
And abandoning users on an old version, with more and more ressources that are not backwards compatible is not acceptable. Even though we might not be a HUGE group of Logos-users on E-ink screen devices. We have payed resonably large amounts of money for a product, that used to work, and then suddenly doesn't work on our devices. And then we are told that - that's just how it is.
We are Christians, but you (Logos) also need to treat your paying customers with respect, and try to work out a fix for this.
Thank you. Looking forward to see a timeline for an update...
Regards
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On your Android support page you even make a deal our of E-ink devices saying:
Look for an e-ink device with a full version of Android, with access to our app via the Google Play Store. Such devices are quite new; several have been released abroad, and will be available in the US soon.
And the devices mentioned in this thread are Android devices, with access to the Google Play store. The Onyx Boox devices all feature Android, Google Play Store, and android settings like any other android device. The Boox T68 has been mentioned, and I own the new Boox i86.
According to your website our devices should be supported, as the meet the outlined requirements.
Waiting in anticipation,
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It is the e-ink reader manufacturers that need to update the version of Android they run, if they run an outdated operating system you cannot expect that new features will work on them. To do so Logos would have to cease taking advantage of the new features available in the operating systems which over time would kill Logos. I may want all new Logos resources and datasets to run on Windows 98 but to expect it to do so would be unreasonable.
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The problem here isn't so much with the version of Android that some e-readers run, but with their hardware. Logos apps should run fine on Android 4.0+. The latest versions of the Logos apps don't run on the Onyx Boox T68 because the T68 itself is limited (in a number of ways). The latest Logos apps run just fine on the Onyx Boox C67 and the Boyue T61 & T62, to name a few. These devices all run Android 4.2.2.
What I would like to see is some US-based company (like Nook) release an e-Reader that runs a newer version of Android. Then, one wouldn't have to order from China or return a problem device to China!
That may be unlikely any time soon, as the NY Times reported today that eBook and e-Reader sales are both down this year so far, while sales of print books are up. Still, we can hope! Logos and E-Ink are a great combination.
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All you need is a US based importer.
The devices will be produced in China anyhow, no matter where the company is based...
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Jan Krohn said:
All you need is a US based importer.
The devices will be produced in China anyhow, no matter where the company is based...
Don't I remember correctly that current Logos Android apps use some 'hardware acceleration' functions for display which only work on tablets/phones with their kind of screen hardware and thus no way to correctly display on e-Ink devices regardless of Android version?
I may be wrong, or not up to date, though.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Yes, you can get Onyx or Boyue devices through Banggood.com, for one.
I have an Onyx Boox C67ML and a Boyue T62+. Logos runs just fine on both, as both have the hardware acceleration capabilities. Unfortunately, the Onyx Boox T68 does not.
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Mark Nolette said:
Yes, you can get Onyx or Boyue devices through Banggood.com, for one.
I have an Onyx Boox C67ML and a Boyue T62+. Logos runs just fine on both, as both have the hardware acceleration capabilities. Unfortunately, the Onyx Boox T68 does not.
That's good to hear about the C67ML and the T62+ - I somehow had the impression that this hardware acceleration was something that technically was unavailable on e-Ink devices.
Have joy in the Lord!
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I also was unaware that e-ink devices came in the hardware-accelerated variety. Between the two aforementioned devices, is there a clear winner in performance and storage terms when running logos?
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