Slow Logos 4

RobertLombardi said:

Alright, Mark, come back to reality. I work at Toshiba and we all have Windows machines. I don't know a single person in our corporation that reformats monthly or yearly. I haven't had to reformat at work, or at home for over a decade. Be careful taking the words from a couple people on the Internet for gospel truth. Your showing yourself to be more of a reckless fan-boy for Apple, but I could be wrong.

I was just responding to the posts I saw on this forum. I use Windows almost every day, along with a couple of Linux distros and OS X. Most of these run as virtual machines, so I don't have a lot of recent experience running Vista or Windows 7 in a native PC environment. It sounds like some of you that do a lot of beta testing might want to try running Windows in a virtual environment. Your entire installation is only a single file that can easily be backed up or replaced. You can have W7, Vista, XP and ME running on the same machine. (Just kidding about ME :-)

Let me add my voice to those who have observed that having "use internet" turned on causes sluggishness as the program tries to upload every single change the user makes in real time. Users alway have the option to turn this feature off, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. I think a better solution would be to have the program delay these unloads of user data at shut down or every 10 or so minutes.

Mark A. Smith said:

I appreciate the help and suggestions all of you have given me, especially the help and encouragement of Kevin and Dave.

Glad I encouraged you.

Bob Pritchett,

I'm glad you're aware of the performance trouble and would like to do something about it!

Can I please pass on a few random tidbits:

1. The text search speeds say that the data base schema, queries, and indexes are very well turned.
2. More hardware solves linear performance problems, but the troubles we are having aren't of that nature
3. For example, when I monitor the disk activity the logos process hits the disk 100,000 times for every key stroke looking up words in the Webster dictionary (That's the worst single feature for me).

From here (and I know I'm just a user) it appears there is some run away code that is hitting the disk way too often.

I know you guys are working hard and solving many things.  I just hope you get a chance to run the software under a profiler.  Over the years, I've been continually surprised at what I learned from empirical evidence.  90% of the time my performance problems were not where my thinking lead me.

Take care and keep up the good work,

Steve

Must be something specific to your pc - software - drivers.

I'm running Logos 4.  AFter about a 30 second start up delay, it runs great.  Fast, responsive, etc...

I'm a big fan of PcPitstops - PcMatic.  it corrects registry problems and in general speeds your computer up dramatically.  I am an expert pc user, (about 20 years), and I can tell you, Pcpitstops PCmatic will make a big difference in your computer.   www. pcpitstop.com   Use my name as a reference, maybe they'll give me a discount sometime.

But Logos 4 runs great.  My freind bought it as well and he has said the same thing.  Be sure, the problem is something with your pc, not with Logos4

No, but I wish I had the experience on such a computer. [:D]

I believe the Envy has its roots in the VooDoo line that seems to have momentarily disappeared from HP (I think they are toying with other high-tech geeky ideas at the moment) - so, it is very optimized for OS and hardware...

But, the big factors that seem to be what Logos says will help the speed are:

1. RAM- lots of it (and, anything over 3.5 GB means a 64-bit OS)- DDR 3 is faster than DDR2, etc.
2. Video Card with FAST memory and lots of memory
3. Multi-core processor - the i5 and i7 are very fast
4. Fast hard SATA drive (7200 RPM - most laptops don't come with this speed)

Also, the recent hinting revisions to the default font in 4.0a mean higher res. displays would be needed to see cleanly. 1920x1080 on a 15.6" screen is awesome but only if you have the abiblity to scale (as you do in L4).

Mark A. Smith said:

Yes, and I could, too. It just has to get faster so it will be 'a little slow.'

I think many of us are trying to be patient and want Logos 4 to succeed. I hope the patience pays off. I do undertsand those who might simply want to throw in the towel, esp. if they have money that they can get back.

I am sure others are having much better results than I am, so again, I don't want to seem like a squeaky wheel.

Hey Mark,

Have you tried the "run as administrator" option?  Sometimes this gets overlooked and some are hesitant to use it because others have made it sound kind of scary.  But I've used L4 in this mode for a couple of weeks and it is much better.  It's still not as fast as other programs on my machine, but it's much improved.  It's really worth a shot.  The only drawback is having to click the UAC box everytime you start L4.  But the speed improvement made it worth it for me.

Richard DeRuiter said:

I find the Windows UAC redundant, given the other security measures I take.

[Y] +1

Logos has now given users a place to input what their preferences (votes) are for new features, in this case a fix/feature to speed up the information window.  Be sure and go to cast your vote that some developmental resources be spent to speed up the info window.  Here is the link:

http://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-4

I recently upgraded to Logos 4 and it seems very slow compared to version 3.

I have a 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo, 4 GB RAM, 256 MB on a discrete GPU and an Intel G2 SSD (with all necessary SSD tweaks) on Win7 Pro x64. Logos 4 is fully updated and I allowed the indexing to complete, but he "feel" of the program is still very sluggish.

I'm testing different approaches to determine if it's indeed the program or something else on my system, but I keep my system very slim and speedy.

Observation #1 - Logos has always released ahead of the hardware... not a bad thing. Solution: allowing us to run L3 along with L4.... excellent move, until we figure out the hardware issues. (or can afford new system )

Observation #2 - My first steps in speeding things up were 1. shut off internet search, 2. re-set performance settings on XP  (Control Panel/System/Advanced/Performance/Settings/Visual Effects/ set for "Adjust for best performance"   - that sped up things greatly. 

Next move: ordered more RAM, but for pc2700 it is expensive -runs
$50-80 per g.  

I am running Dell 4600i; 2.8htz; 500g HD  2g ram; separate video card - running 2 monitors.... great for Logos spread out desktop!;

I am going to try to see what happens when I change the "Virtual Memory"  (under "Performance Options"/ Advanced/Virtual memory -paging. 

THANK YOU Bob for the best software in the world!

RickH

Burke Hamblin said:

and an Intel G2 SSD (with all necessary SSD tweaks)

Could you clarify what you mean by "all necessary SSD tweaks"?

Joan Korte said:

"Smooth edges for screen fonts" is something I have to have and I cannot set "adjust for best performance" and have smooth edges at the same time.

 

Joan,

actually you can. The "Best performance" setting is the 100% performance, but you can set that....and then go back and turn on "smooth edges of screen fonts, and it has a negliglble effect on performance.

Personally I use "Best performance" and then turn on:

• Smooth on screen fonts
• show shadows under menus
• smooth scroll list
• use drop shadows for icon lables
• use visual styles on windows and buttons.

Joan,

Yes...that's how it works...

The "custom" just denotes some deviation from the "best performance" setting....but it still works the same...

You can describe it as "best performance-with-one-or-two-things-I-like"....

Ok, here it is the middle of May, and I was hoping by now Logos 4 would have been optimized to run better, but after downloading the latest release, and letting the indexer run until it was finished, I still can't use this program on my PC. (Dell Dimension 8600 4 gigs of ram, Win7). I'm going to have to go back to version 3 until I can afford a new top-o-the-line super-duper 64 gig of ram PC, I guess...

(sorry, just frustrated that after spending so much to upgrade I can't use it.)

Just a simple suggestion for speed, especially for laptops, is to never, ever, leave a disk in the cd/dvd drive when you're not using it. It's easy to forget one in there, and it will slow your system down considerable even when it is not loading on auto-run.

Scott

I'm running an i7-720QM, 4 GB ram, 500 GB 7200 HD, NVidia GT 230M 1 MB. I noticed the last update caused a few seconds slowdown in assembling the commentaries within the Passage Guide; it was almost instantaneous before the update.

The main difference I noticed in moving from my Dual-Core Pentium, 2 GB ram, 120GB 5400 HD was the time for indexing. I have the Platinum version and the first index took well over six hours. The last index took less than 2 hours to complete.

Needless to say, I believe you will be pleased with the speed of your new acquisition.

Peace,

Monty

ChrisWalley said:

How I agree. See my post on Reindexing again. And please what about 3rd world pastors struggling with a Pentium and a Gig of RAM?

Someone at Logos needs to look at what Microsoft did when it went from Vista to Windows 7.

Chris,

A Pastor in the 3rd world with an older computer would be best served by using Libronix (Logos 3). Logos has repeatedly said that they design for the future. This has the unfortunate side-effect of meaning their software, in its early days, runs poorly on older machines.

Consider this post by Bob Pritchett (CEO) http://community.logos.com/forums/p/4318/35672.aspx#35672

Everyone likes to run the latest and greatest version. I do too [:)]. However, sometimes the hardware available just doesn't allow for it.

2011/01/11

Hi,

Bob Pritchett said: 

Bob Pritchett said:

The big decision we made that's hard to
undo is choosing .NET with WPF. This is Microsoft's brand new platform
for the future, and it basically involves loading a system within a
system on your computer. The program is compiled to a special assembly
language that's then re-compiled to your chip at runtime, there is a
whole set of system-level libraries running on top of Windows, and
there's a whole display system running on top of the Win32 framework on
your system. It's all a bit bulky, but it's the future. And it has lots
of side benefits, ranging from easier porting of code to Mac, the web,
etc. to easier coding of complicated features. The big negative is
memory use -- you're essentially loading a second operating
system/platform into memory.  -- Bob

Well, I think this post answers the question that I had.  I am looking to upgrade my hardware from "ancient" to "just old" which is all that my finances will allow.  But that is going from a single core CPU with 1 GB of RAM to a Core Duo with (hopefully) 4GB of RAM - which I think will give Logos 4 a big boost.

My question was how might I hasten the indexing on the new computer and I had toyed with the idea of swapping out my system disk from the "ancient" computer and putting it as-is in the "just old" computer.  BUT - I see from the quote above that the indexing also involves a step which recompiles the code to your specific CPU chip, so I MUST do the re-indexing to get the value out of my hardware upgrade in running Logos 4 on the "new" computer.  Is that correct?

Thanks, David

2011/01/11

Hi,

First I need to say that I purchased my Upgrade from Libronix DLS Scholar's Gold 3 to Logos Scholar's Gold 4 in January or February of 2010 when the upgrades were first being offered.  However, I did not install my Logos 4 upgrade until Christmas of 2010 because it was a gift from my wife for Christmas.  My main point in bringing this up is that I am basically at the point now where many people on this Forum were at in November of 2009 because I've just installed my Logos 4 software recently and I was unaware of some user's concerns with Logos 4 performance on older computers prior to purchasing my upgrade or installing it on my computer.

So even though Logos 4 has been out for a year, I am a very new Logos 4 user.

So today I read this post from 2009: 

Bob Pritchett said:

I'm sorry Logos 4 is slow for many of you.

I know that not everyone can afford to stay on the latest-and-greatest hardware. That's why we made a conscious choice to keep Logos 3.0 running side-by-side. But we decided long ago that there are plenty of Bible software applications that stick with old code and run great on old machines; we're going to keep blazing the trail to the future.

Computers are cheaper than ever, and even at $400 you can find more than enough power for Logos 4. (More memory can be a huge help, too, and it costs even less.) I know everyone can't afford to upgrade now, and I'm sensitive to that.  ...  If you continue to use Logos 3, and then switch to Logos 4 when you next upgrade your system, you won't have any worse an experience. And I think you'll appreciate then all the cool functionality in Logos 4 -- Bob

I have to say that from this post and many others that I have read on the Logos 4 Forum, that I am quite tired of hearing that I should stick with Libronix DLS 3 if my hardware can't support Logos 4 - especially from Logos employees! 

My present computer exceeds the minimum requirements for running Logos 4 and I could grow a beard between the point of entering a passage into the "Go" box and seeing the "Passage Guide" report.  Plus - Libronix DLS 3 users were bombarded with upgrade options and discounts to upgrade to Logos 4 - with never any mention of possibly having to upgrade your hardware.  So, I went by the suggested minimum system requirements and Logos 4 runs exceptionally slow on my "ancient" computer.  But that was my choice.

The thing that I find insulting in the post cited above is the implication that I shouldn't complain and that I should be happy with other "archaic" software that matches my "ancient" computer - and leave the cutting edge software (like Logos 4) to those of you who are fortunate enough to have a job and be able to afford today's technology today - instead of four years from now.

Also, $400 dollars may buy a great computer - but when you and your wife are unemployed and without unemployment benefits - $400 goes a long way in paying the rent!  A lot changes in a year.

David