Minor complaint

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71445#Comment_71445

Does it strike anyone else as odd that we still can't download many purchases immediately but must wait for an L3 disk? It seems to me like Logos didn't time this part of the implementation correctly - even if they had to manually update license with a 24 hour delay it would seem better planned.

May I ask a question? Or maybe more than one?

Do you think that Logos is aware of the issue?

Do you think that addressing it directly with them would have been prudent? (or at least polite)

Are you trying to get people to agree with you so that you can pressure Logos into acting on this more quickly?

I don't know the motivation behind the post, but neither do I see what this is going to accomplish other than getting people riled.

Floyd Johnson

They are aware of it. I confirmed my pre-pub order by phone. The order was placed and I asked about getting it installed in L4 (since my L3 machine is in for repairs). Though the gal from customer service did some checking, I was told there was no way for them to activate the L4 license until my L3 disk arrived with a serial number. Once the disk arrived, I could call with the serial number and they could activate the L4 product - but that cannot be done until I have the L3 serial number in hand.

Blessings,

Floyd

TCBlack

MJ.

I seem to recall way back somewhere here that the reason has to do with physical inventory and older licensing agreements. At that point not all of the publishing partners had signed the contract addenda for the new distribution system.

If I understand this correctly that means that currently inventoried items need to be gone through before they can (legally?) switch to the download method.

Mind you, this is guesswork based upon my sometimes questionable memory so ...

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71614#Comment_71614

that currently inventoried items need to be gone through before they can (legally?) switch to the download method.

Thomas, that makes sense for in-stock items. But for Pre-Pub's?

Regards

Steve F

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71833#Comment_71833

Stephen, there may be other factors like simply time to update everything, BUT even pre-pubs are under contract with a publisher so it is not unreasonable based on my experience to think that a contract modification is required for pre-pubs as well.

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71884#Comment_71884

BUT even pre-pubs are under contract with a publisher

Dear Joe:

In general, I agree with you, but the one i'm referring to was on Public Domain and came in through Community pricing.

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/2504

Commentary on the Psalms by E. W. Hengstenberg (3 Vols.)

(wow, "big" print, sorry!)

Regards Steve

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71895#Comment_71895

For many of these items I am given the choice - I can receive a CD (for L3) or download (for L4). However, because I was caught without a L3 machine, I could not install until my CD arrives and I have access to a serial number. I realize that it was my choice - but because the order was placed without verifying my choice, I essentially had no choice.

Because I do not have a machine with L3 installed, I will have to make another call, along with long hold times, to finish the installation process. Seems that L3 and L4 could have been integrated - especially given the ongoing concerns people have with L4.

Blessings,

Floyd

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71895#Comment_71895

In this case I would assume it comes down to Logos making the time for some employee to update this page. Logos has commented elsewhere that they have people going in to edit and change multiple thousands of pages on their site, so I can only assume this one has not been updated. But I am with you in hoping it gets updated soon so help smooth out the transition between L3 to L4.

Matt

Does it strike anyone else as odd that we still can't download many purchases immediately but must wait for an L3 disk? It seems to me like Logos didn't time this part of the implementation correctly - even if they had to manually update license with a 24 hour delay it would seem better planned.

Yes, it does strike me as odd, and I don't think anybody should get riled over your post. I took your post as not only a question, but, knowing that Logos staff do read these posts, as a gentle exhortation that the delivery (no pun intended) of this feature was not well executed and it has caused some users a minor annoyance. No one should be reprimanded for posting a rational, even-tempered post such as yours.

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71895#Comment_71895

In general, I agree with you, but the one i'm referring to was on Public Domain and came in through Community pricing.

http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/2504

Commentary on the Psalms by E. W. Hengstenberg (3 Vols.)

Many products were put into the pre-pub pipline long before 4.0 became a reality. Some were originally planned as CD-ROM only for whatever reason. Dan Pritchett recently told me that they "are working through thousands of pages right now making changes just like that. We've got a lot of hand editing to do for thousands of pages." Sounds like this is one of the pages that needs to be updated.

I would expect that this and any other pre-pubs that are listed as CD-ROM only but are not in contract with some publisher will be delivered as downloadable (and probably downloadable only, if my experience serves me). I wouldn't worry about it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71919#Comment_71919

I don't think anybody should get riled over your post.

No one should be reprimanded for posting a rational, even-tempered post such as yours.

Matt, would you mind pointing which post on this particular thread is riled? What wordage causes you to think there is anger involved?

Then once you have done that, would you mind pointing out the post that reprimands Martha?

Frankly what riles me, is having someone attributing an emotional content to a post that wasn't felt by the author, then reprimanding that person for something they didn't do (Sounds like conversations I use to have with my ex-wife). [:P]

Ms. Smith, would you please let me know if you felt my questions were angry (riled) and I was reprimanding you?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71445#Comment_71445

Do you think that Logos is aware of the issue?

I suspect that they are - but without feedback from the users they can't know the extent to which people do or do not mind.

Do you think that addressing it directly with them would have been prudent? (or at least polite)

Do you know if I did or didn't address it directly with them? Yes, I am answering a question with a question in order to expose your assumptions.

Are you trying to get people to agree with you so that you can pressure Logos into acting on this more quickly?

I am trying to determine whether or not this is something for which pressure should be applied. I suspect that sales of individual items are down because of the number of upgrades - in which case, the number of us concerned about waiting for individual items is relatively small. But if there is a significant number of us mildly annoyed by this gap in the conversion to L4, then yes, I am quite willing to pressure Logos.

but neither do I see what this is going to accomplish other than getting people riled.

Am I so well known for inflammatory statements? Bring out the flint stones. Rub the two sticks harder. Blow on the embers ... Okay, I should contain my humor But how do you suggest I get a pulse on the forum community without asking?

You are quite correct that forum users can get quite riled without justification (from my perspective) and that is a legitimate concern especially on posts such as my initial post. However, I did think that the title and the text were sufficiently low key to minimize that threat. The responses seem to generally support that.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71614#Comment_71614

I seem to recall way back somewhere here that the reason has to do with physical inventory and older licensing agreements.

Interesting and reasonable - it hadn't occured to me that there might be licensing issues.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71985#Comment_71985

Ms. Smith, would you please let me know if you felt my questions were angry (riled) and I was reprimanding you?

No, I did not think that you were angry; it did come across as a bit of a reprimand. I thought that you were considering only a small subset of my possible motives - a subset that did not include my actual motive. Luckily, my normal response to such misunderstandings is bemusement.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72015#Comment_72015

No, I did not think that you were angry; it did come across as a bit of a reprimand. I thought that you were considering only a small subset of my possible motives - a subset that did not include my actual motive. Luckily, my normal response to such misunderstandings is bemusement.

Wow, Martha, great way to handle this. Mind If I borrow your quote sometime for future use in other cases of online misunderstandings? I thought this was excellent: "I thought that you were considering only a small subset of my possible motives - a subset that did not include my actual motive. Luckily, my normal response to such misunderstandings is bemusement." You've got a real way of calming down fires on this Forum. I really appreciate you. (Terry, I don't thnk you were fanning any fires, I just liked Martha's wording and saw how it could be very useful if someone were feeling riled.)

Andy

Does it strike anyone else as odd that we still can't download many purchases immediately but must wait for an L3 disk? It seems to me like Logos didn't time this part of the implementation correctly - even if they had to manually update license with a 24 hour delay it would seem better planned.

As a customer based in the UK I agree with this wholeheartedly. Postage and import costs seriously add to the costs. For example, I am seriously tempted by the Tyndale Commentary set but not being able to download it seriously adds to the cos and makes it a less attractive proposition.

To echo M.J., however, this is only a minor quibble... I am otherwise pretty chuffed with Logos 4 [:D].

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72006#Comment_72006

m I so well known for inflammatory statements

Well, evidently I did offend you, please forgive me, it was not my intention. I pondered the wording of my post trying to make sure that wouldn't happen. I failed.

Ms. Smith, no, you are not known for inflammatory statements, or if your are known for them, I am not aware of it. I could not see the purpose of your post other then causing more people to agree with your complaint. So I tried to phrase it in a gentle way, and even through you may believe you uncovered assumptions on my part, you are incorrect. I had no way of knowing and was trying not to make those assumptions.

These forums are extremely helpful, they are also places where people with an axe to grind go to elicit reactions from those who share their grievances. Whether it was odd of not, Logos had their reasons, even if those reasons were a failure to look ahead. Until Logos tells us those reasons, we really can't address their oddity, for all we know, there may be legal issues that are driving the decision. Rosie posted a collection addresses for the different areas of Logos where we can address our concerns, I used it, my concern was addressed and what I thought was a failure on Logos's part was explained.

BTW, I was glad I caused you some amusement. [;)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72021#Comment_72021

You've got a real way of calming down fires on this Forum.

Thank you.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72029#Comment_72029

Well, evidently I did offend you, please forgive me, it was not my intention.

It genuinely is no problem and I do see why one might have a concern.

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71985#Comment_71985

Matt, would you mind pointing which post on this particular thread is riled? What wordage causes you to think there is anger involved?

Then once you have done that, would you mind pointing out the post that reprimands Martha?

Hi Terry, you mentioned in your original response to MJ that the only accomplishment of her post that you could see was to get people riled. I don't agree with that assertion. In my mind, your post came across with a denunciatory tone and it further implied that MJ was not polite. In my response, I was merely attempting to encourage her to not be put off to post her thoughts for fear of being upbraided, and to let her know she was not alone in her experience with the delayed downloads.

Hopefully, that answers your questions,

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72025#Comment_72025

As a customer based in the UK...

I am otherwise pretty chuffed with Logos 4 .

As a customer in North America, I had to look up "chuffed" (though I knew from the context it probably meant something positive).

From Collins English Dictionary (which I just downloaded - glad to put it to good use right away), for the benefit of y'all in my neck of the woods, no, it has nothing to do with trains; it means "pleased or delighted."

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72110#Comment_72110

Matt, please feel free to look at my original post, what I said was:

"I don't know the motivation behind the post, but neither do I see what this is going to accomplish other than getting people riled."

I never attributed motivation, I also admitted what I saw as the out come. How can you possibly disagree with an assertion that I never made? If I had believed that was her motivation and desire, I would not have couched it in the terms that I did, I would have called her on it. And if you believe for a minute that I could dissuade Ms. Smith in something she thought she was right in, you haven't read many of her posts.

Matt, forum posts are hard to read because of the lack of verbal cues that we derive so much information from in normal life. You accused me of motivations and actions that wasn't true because you read into my post something that wasn't intended. I will live, so will you. Have a good evening.

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72150#Comment_72150

Hi Terry, thank you for explaining away your use of 'riled' and that it didn't really mean what anyone who understands English would read it to mean. I'm sure you have a similar explanation for what only appears to be insulting when you implied that MJ's original post didn't even meet the minimum criteria of politeness. Oh well. Just don't be surprised when you're 'misunderstood' a lot. I would preface your posts with something such as "English is not my native language." People will be more understanding and not take what you write at face value.

Matt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72307#Comment_72307

Hi Terry, thank you for explaining away your use of 'riled' and that it didn't really mean what anyone who understands English would read it to mean. I'm sure you have a similar explanation for what only appears to be insulting when you implied that MJ's original post didn't even meet the minimum criteria of politeness. Oh well. Just don't be surprised when you're 'misunderstood' a lot. I would preface your posts with something such as "English is not my native language." People will be more understanding and not take what you write at face value.

Matt, Martha has already made peace with Terry. There is no need for you to keep fighting her battle on her behalf anymore. Thanks.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72340#Comment_72340

here is no need for you to keep fighting her battle on her behalf anymore

Besides, I have looked at Martha's picture [8-|]. That little lady looks wiry enough to defend herself, as she already did in a most gracious manner.

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/71445#Comment_71445

Gee Terry,

Did you have a bad day? If there is a problem I would hope (and I believe) Logos would appreciate it being aired. I found nothing hostile in the man's post.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/72938#Comment_72938

Gee Terry,

Did you have a bad day? If there is a problem I would hope (and I believe) Logos would appreciate it being aired. I found nothing hostile in the man's post.

Michael, greetings! MJ is a woman, and she and Terry have resolved their conflict. Please read an entire thread before piping in to defend someone you think has been offended. This thread has already gone on long enough on something that is no longer an issue.

People on this Forum are amazingly gracious and forgiving with one another. I am glad for that. But sometimes newcomers don't realize it and add unnecessary concerns.

Now if others want to continue it by responding to Martha's initial question...have at it.