sense searching within literary type

I'm trying to find every instance where a woman is found within the literary type "Commendation" within Paul's letters. The search is Bible, the settings are All Bible Text in Paul in the ESV. My search string is:

<Sense woman> WITHIN {Section<LiteraryType Commendation>}

I would expect that Rom 16 would appear, where Phoebe is commended, but it doesn't. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

mvh

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Doc B

<Sense woman> WITHIN {Section<LiteraryType Commendation>}

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

mvh

Quick read: put a space between "Section" and the < symbol.

I didn't test it, but believe a space is required there. I would test it, but my Logos is indexing right now, so I'm out of commission for an hour or two.

MVH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777705#Comment_777705

Thanks for the suggestion. I did try that, but still no results

MVH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777705#Comment_777705

Thanks Doc B. I did try that, but I'm still getting no results.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777708#Comment_777708

If you right click on Phoebe and scroll down the right hand side of the menu does it show she is tagged with that sense?

Sorry, don't have access to my computer at the moment so can't check

MVH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777711#Comment_777711

Graham--thanks, that solved it! I wonder why Phoebe wouldn't be tagged as a woman?

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777711#Comment_777711

If you right click on Phoebe and scroll down the right hand side of the menu does it show she is tagged with that sense?

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777712#Comment_777712

Graham--thanks, that solved it! I wonder why Phoebe wouldn't be tagged as a woman?

I didn't see anyone tagged as a woman in Paul's writings. Perhaps I don't understand that tag.

And because I can't resist, I'll insert the double-entendre here: "Houston, we have a problem."

(See what I did there?)

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777714#Comment_777714

I didn't see anyone tagged as a woman in Paul's writings. Perhaps I don't understand that tag.

Are references to "woman" tagged with the sense?

Try Romans 7:2 or 16:12.

I seem to remember that generic senses are not applied to named entities but I could be wrong

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777722#Comment_777722

The sense in this case involve the sense of generic noun(s) that carry the meaning "woman". It is from the Bible Sense Lexicon, which provides "sense" data for Hebrew and Greek common (not proper) nouns, verbs, and adverbs. So proper noun instances do not have a gender-specific sense applied to them.

The "sense" data is the data you see in the reverse interlinear 'ribbon' at the bottom of the window if active, like this in the ESV (for Rom 16). Have you tried the "Biblical People" section of Passage Guide for this sort of information (2nd image, after the below)?

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777736#Comment_777736

proper noun instances do not have a gender-specific sense applied to them.

OK.

So how do we search for 'women who were commended' (for example)?

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777766#Comment_777766

So how do we search for 'women who were commended' (for example)?

That's a great question. And it doesn't have an easy answer that I know of (I'm willing to be proven wrong).

One is to find all the commendation sections according to the Literary Typing data (so, search for "{Section <LiteraryTyping ~ Commendation>}") and then manually review them. A quick scan of the 46 hits shows Euodia and Syntyche in a section (of course, you then need to figure out if one or both of them are being 'commended').

There will be a number of judgment calls. You'll need to figure out if something like "the household of Stephanas" was intended to include females or not. And if generic references to "these" (e.g. 3Jn 5-8) include women or not.

Alternately, once you know the range of verses involved you can try plugging and playing female names if you have questions about them specifically: <Person Phoebe> WITHIN {Section <LiteraryTyping ~ Commendation>}

But I don't think there's an easy way there.

MVH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777798#Comment_777798

Thanks Rick. Very, very helpful!

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777798#Comment_777798

But I don't think there's an easy way there.

It's a real shame that we can't use some of the new search methods (e.g. labels) to specify additional metadata (e.g. {Label Person WHERE Gender=Female}). I hope that's in the pipeline at some point.

In the meantime, in the N.T. you can use ((<LouwNida ~LN 9.1-9.21>, <LouwNida ~LN 10.14-10.61>, <LouwNida ~LN 93.1-93.388>) WITHIN 0 WORDS <LogosMorphGr ~ N??F?>) OR <LouwNida ~LN 9.34-9.40> as an approximation for females.

Combined with commendations in Paul, it returns Phoebe, Euodia and Syntyche.

If you want a slightly wider search, you can also add feminine pronouns. The finished search looks like this: (((<LouwNida ~LN 9.1-9.21>, <LouwNida ~LN 10.14-10.61>, <LouwNida ~LN 93.1-93.388>) WITHIN 0 WORDS <LogosMorphGr ~ N??F?>) OR <LouwNida ~LN 9.34-9.40> OR <LogosMorphGr ~ R????F?>) WITHIN {Section<LiteraryType Commendation>} but doesn't return any more results:

MVH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/777805#Comment_777805

Thanks Mark. I'm a novice at constructing search strings. You are obviously a Jedi Master. Here's a question for you. I wanted to find every occurrence of Love within four words of either faith or hope. I thought the correct syntax would be this

love WITHIN 4 WORDS (faith OR hope)

... but I got no hits

The search is Bible, all Bible text in all passages in the ESV

What did I do wrong?

MVH (Padawan)

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/778395#Comment_778395

love WITHIN 4 WORDS (faith OR hope)

... but I got no hits

The search is Bible, all Bible text in all passages in the ESV

What did I do wrong?

That's a very common mistake. You need to replace the OR with a comma. There's an explanation here: https://wiki.logos.com/detailed_search_help#Using_lists