Help understanding logos course and how to use

Could someone help me understand how exactly to use a logos bible course. Earlier this week I posted about a free course (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/125722.aspx ) and this is my first time using one. It seems to me that all a (or in this specific one) course is, is 60 or so 4 minute videos with links to resources. I'm a gold user but in the first session after the intro, none of the suggested reading is open, as a gold user wouldn't own any of them. I don't mean to sound cynical but is all a course is, is a way to sell more resources?

I haven't been to college in a while but in my past experience, usually there is one or two main books that you work of. Am I doing this wrong?

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NB.Mick

It seems to me that all a (or in this specific one) course is, is 60 or so 4 minute videos with links to resources

The Mobile.Ed courses are videos, a textbook with transcript accompanying the videos, and an audio version of the videos. So you get - according to the product page - six hours of video training by Professor Darrell Bock, a world renowned scholar. The textbook would probably be several hundred pages if printed as a book.

Included into the courses are some Logos usage training sections, unit quizzes (multiple choice) and two exams.

Regarding the "suggested reading" and "see also" books, the courses I've seen so far don't interact with these, so there is no strong emphasis on selling those. Each course has a Faithlife group which shares a note file for these additional readings and a spreadsheet giving the names of those resources and how often each are referenced. Often, they give three or four suggestions that treat the same material, but one wouldn't need to have all of them.

Typically, the courses assume a platinum level library which should give access to most of these readings. I'm not a platinum owner but buy widely beyond the packages, thus I fare pretty well.

Mobile.Ed are much better than the classroom video captures found on Youtube or iTunesU - I personally compare them to high-quality Udemy courses (such as those taught by NT Wright) and find Mobile.Ed better in terms of the full transcript textbook and the complete integration into Logos. The filming by Logos is much more professional (actually too sterile for my liking, but that's taste, not content), too.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819110#Comment_819110

Thank you sir. I guess I should progress further in then

Bernhard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819111#Comment_819111

Actually, in this case Challis said on his page (http://www.challies.com/resources/would-you-like-to-take-a-new-testament-course-with-me ):

"The course is driven by videos but includes two kinds of option reading: “Suggested Reading” (which you have full access to) and “See Also” readings for which you may need to purchase supplementary materials."

This is definitely not correct so far, I am just waiting for Monday, when his reading plan officially starts.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819118#Comment_819118

Interesting well I jumped the gun I guess so let's see how it works when it gets started.

All the book is, at least so far as I can tell, is a transcript of the videos

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819118#Comment_819118

Actually, in this case Challis said on his page (http://www.challies.com/resources/would-you-like-to-take-a-new-testament-course-with-me ):

"The course is driven by videos but includes two kinds of option reading: “Suggested Reading” (which you have full access to) and “See Also” readings for which you may need to purchase supplementary materials."

This is definitely not correct so far, I am just waiting for Monday, when his reading plan officially starts.

Could be Challies is wrong about the Suggested Readings too.

Jan Krohn

Platinum is recommended. Most resources are locked for me as well. Anyway, 6 hrs of video is still awesome.

DBR

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819132#Comment_819132

I own Silver and Baptist Silver and found that I have all the main resources in the Suggested Reading (those that are read 2 or more times) and several in see also. I have several courses and I have found that the extra readings really help to point me in the right direction for further study. I research the books I don't own and sometimes find that the book would be a really great tool for study. I may even come back and study the full book further. If it doesn't look interesting, I don't bother. I hope you enjoy working through the course. I am looking forward to it as well.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819133#Comment_819133

I own Silver and Baptist Silver and found that I have all the main resources in the Suggested Reading (those that are read 2 or more times)

I just checked, and I'd need to buy NAC Mark to be in that position, too. Among the 16 "main resources" as you defined them are 5 commentaries from the NAC series and the rest are very solid works (mostly dictionaries/encyclopedias) that probably are in most Logos libraries of decent size. The most-often "suggested" resource is - and was in I think every m.Ed course resource list I've seen so far - the free LBD.

Dave Thawley

I've used a couple of these courses and I do love them. I have a platinum library and most of suggested readings are open along with a few of the additional readings. For me the additional readings (if you can get any of them) do add a lot of value to the course as they go into a lot of detail. I guess the lecturer (whoever it is) selects the readings as well which is pretty cool because not only do we get the direct video but we also get guided reading by the world experts. For me - I read most of the suggested reading as it seems very integral to the course . The lecturer gives an overview and the suggested readings go into the topic properly so it seems that both are equally useful. The "See Also" books go into a lot more depth - perhaps a chapter of a book but some of the chosen material is fascinating. Also in my experience the "see also" books don't tend to occur that often but as NB Nick said, the faith life group has a list of books and shows the amount of times they appear so if you feel like investing you can chose the one(s) that is most relevant to the course. For this course the LBD seems to be used quite a lot. This is another trick as well though - often the suggested reading or "see also" is a reference to a dictionary so if you haven't got the one in the link you can search one that you own for the same topic and get (I guess) roughly the same information. I would also just say that I saw EJ:ETJ appear throughout so I decided to invest. I didn't like it as within the first couple of pages it claimed that the NT was biased !!! I am sure there would be useful information in there as well but this fact really put me off it so I returned it. There is a book By DeSilva in there as well and I honestly though this one was second to none - its interesting and extremely clear (to me anyway). Im not sure how often its going to come up later (I'm about half way though) but I thought it was worth buying and plan to read it more after I finish.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819152#Comment_819152

Wow thanks Dave. What desilva book are you referring to?

Doc B

I don't mean to sound cynical but is all a course is, is a way to sell more resources?

I haven't been to college in a while but in my past experience, usually there is one or two main books that you work of. Am I doing this wrong?

I too am a bit underwhelmed so far. For the price Challies' course cost (free), I think it is great. Had I paid over two hundred dollars for it, I'd be spitting nails.

The videos are good, no doubt. But for the list price, I'd think there would be a lot more.

So what am I missing?

Dave Thawley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819155#Comment_819155

Wow thanks Dave. What desilva book are you referring to?

Hiya, It is called "An Introduction to the New Testament: Contexts, Methods and Ministry Formation". I guess like with any book we all get on with different things but for me this book speaks in a way I think and absorb.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819159#Comment_819159

But for the list price

Rule of Thumb for mobile Ed. Never pay list price; Either purchase on pre-pub or wait till it goes on a sale for 30-40% off the list price.

The videos / transcripts are only one third of the value of these courses IMHO. Having a broad library (Platinum is the recommended level) so that you are able to access both the recommend and suggested readings is the second third of the value of these courses. The final third component of the value of these courses is the independent work you put into them yourself - digging further into the scriptures and other resources in your library in regards to particular topics / sections within the course that are of particular interest to you personally.

If you simply want information presented to you that you can consume mobile Ed. will be of limited value, if you want a tool to facilitate your learning about a specific subject or book of the bible then you will find mobile Ed to be of value and the more you put into it the greater that value..

NB: owning Platinum won't guarantee you have access to all of the resources - in some courses they are books authored by the presenter that are in Vyrso format and in other cases they are included in higher level base packages, or not included in any base package and available as a stand alone resources or as parts of a collections - but this is an exception.

For a list of resources used by this course a spreadsheet is availble for download from the courses faithlife group: https://faithlife.com/nt211/documents

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819152#Comment_819152

I would also just say that I saw EJ:ETJ appear throughout so I decided to invest. I didn't like it as within the first couple of pages it claimed that the NT was biased !!! I am sure there would be useful information in there as well but this fact really put me off it so I returned it.

This particular book is about Early Judaism and so I would expect it to present a message like that. This is a course about the background of the NT and reality is the world in which Christ and the disciples lived was not a christian world. And the value of this book is it helps us to gain insight into that world - the world of Second Temple Judaism, into the historical and cultural context of the NT.

These courses will present to us ideas and concepts that do have have a bias we don't agree with theologically or otherwise - we all have a bias. Doing theology is about understanding our own bias. Engaging with a bias different to our own helps us to better understand or own bias and question and challenge it where necessary. This ensures that which we are teaching to others - whether it be from the pulpit, in a classroom or over coffee with a friend is based on the truth of scriptures and is not simply our bias that results from our own historical and cultural context.

So to use these courses don't immediately dismiss readings and the resources they are contained simply because they have a bias different to what you believe - if I did that I'd probably have to dismiss a lot of my library.

For the record I think the NT does have a bias and it's bias is the one we should all hold that bias because it is the way, the truth and the life.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819152#Comment_819152

I would also just say that I saw EJ:ETJ appear throughout so I decided to invest. I didn't like it as within the first couple of pages it claimed that the NT was biased !!! I am sure there would be useful information in there as well but this fact really put me off it so I returned it.

To put it the way Bock presents it in the first segment of this course, some of these readings are going to be about helping us understand the cultural script of this time period and how that influences what is going on in the text of the NT. When looking at these readings always go back to the learning objectives of the segment and the overall learning objectives of the course and ask how does this reading help me with those learning objectives. Use those objectives to frame the context of why the reading has been presented to you as something worthwhile to consider.

For the record I think the NT does have a bias and it's bias is the one we should all hold that bias because it is the way, the truth and the life.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819152#Comment_819152

it claimed that the NT was biased !!!

And this bothered you why? Bias is not necessarily a negative term ... it basically means that the NT is written from an identifiable point of view ... as I would expect that a Jewish writing recounting the same period of the life of Christ written in the same time period or a Roman version would be quite different, it sounds reasonable to me.

Dave Thawley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819174#Comment_819174

it claimed that the NT was biased !!!

And this bothered you why? Bias is not necessarily a negative term ... it basically means that the NT is written from an identifiable point of view ... as I would expect that a Jewish writing recounting the same period of the life of Christ written in the same time period or a Roman version would be quite different, it sounds reasonable to me.

I guess it depends on the meaning being attributed to the word "bias". I interpreted it as "not accurate" or "not complete ". It seemed to imply that the bible was somehow lacking and the author of the book was going to be kind enough to correct it for us. Since my view of the bible is that it is "God Breathed", any sense that someone is going to correct it is wrong because it can't need correcting. I guess my interpretation of bias may be biased though :-)

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819177#Comment_819177

I guess my interpretation of bias may be biased though :-)

Isn't that true of us all [;)]

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819184#Comment_819184

I'm unable to take the course quizzes on my iPad and iPhone. Is that normal?

When I click on take quiz, it says resource not available

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819351#Comment_819351

I'm unable to take the course quizzes on my iPad and iPhone. Is that normal?

Yes - they only work on the desktop (at least the ones I have tried)

Dave Thawley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819172#Comment_819172

To put it the way Bock presents it in the first segment of this course, some of these readings are going to be about helping us understand the cultural script of this time period and how that influences what is going on in the text of the NT. When looking at these readings always go back to the learning objectives of the segment and the overall learning objectives of the course and ask how does this reading help me with those learning objectives. Use those objectives to frame the context of why the reading has been presented to you as something worthwhile to consider.

So to use these courses don't immediately dismiss readings and the resources they are contained simply because they have a bias different to what you believe - if I did that I'd probably have to dismiss a lot of my library.

For the record I think the NT does have a bias and it's bias is the one we should all hold that bias because it is the way, the truth and the life.

I can understand what you are saying here but for me the bible is the only unbiased text there is because it was produced by God. Therefore it is as it is - My interpretation of the text will contain bias based on my lack of knowledge and the cultural lens I tend to see the world though. God cannot produce anything biased though. I think though it depends on the use of the term bias in all of this. I am in the UK and it may be that we have a slightly different social construction of the word meaning than people have in the US. I know Desilva approached this topic from a point of view that I do agree with in that it is not really possible to understand why the Pharisees behaved the way they did unless we can understand the historic context. And after following the course I agree with him. My own interpretation of the word Bias doesn't fit this situation though.

JeremyS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819355#Comment_819355

is this course unlocked forever or is this gonna diappear from my library after challie's walkthrough is done?

Dave Thawley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819448#Comment_819448

is this course unlocked forever or is this gonna diappear from my library after challie's walkthrough is done?

From my understanding it is for a limited time only. The original website seemed to suggest 8 weeks but I would ask FL to make sure. I paid for it and half way though it and in my opinion it is well worth following :-)

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819396#Comment_819396

I'm not from the US but Australia, so a different part of the world again. I understand what you are saying as thinking about bias having a negative connotation - after all the Oxford Dictionary defines it as an inclination or prejudice and prejudice is defined as a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. I believe you are referring to the reading in the book about STEREOTYPES OF JUDAISM and the fact it says the "New Testament’s treatment of Judaism is, on the whole, biased." I understand where you are coming form in saying the bible is the only unbiased text since it was produced by God and then have concern about this statement. To me I read this as saying the NT has a particular focus when it comes to the presentation of Judaism, and there are aspects of the religion not touched upon by the NT writers which we need to ready more widely if we are to get the full picture and not develop an uniformed stereotype of Judaism. From this short reading of this one section of the book I don't take this as saying the NT is wrong in its presentation of the Judaism, but is saying the NT only presents those aspects of Judaism that are opposed to the teachings of Christ which of course is what the NT writers were inspired to write about in order to make the message of the gospel clear. That said as I read further into the book I quite possibly will find statements I dont[ agree with about the NT but that is true of just about any book I pick up an read because my knowledge and understanding is not perfect and is biased just as is that to the writer of the particular book I may have in hand at the time is also.

But I'll leave it there because if I have not already, I am in danger of going outside the scope of these forums. I appreciate and respect your viewpoint because it has challenged me to think more about why I hold the view I do, so for that thank you Dave.

https://ref.ly/logosres/coed11;hw=Prejudice