Logos' Notes Are Counter-Intuitive - QUOTES/Highlights - Please Reconsider...

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John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jan 30 2015 2:01 PM

I know this has been discussed at length, but I'm frustrated and want to express my thoughts about highlighting.  The truncated way Logos developers have chosen to implement highlighting leaves me with incomplete and nearly unusable information.  When I highlight, Logos will put into the note file the first three words, an ellipses, then the last three words.  I frequently desire to review all the highlights of a book, print, copy, or export to Evernote through copy and paste.  They get tagged in my own database for sermons or lessons that are upcoming.  This is not available because of the counter-intuitive, truncated highlights in the note files.

There has been a step forward with the "QUOTES" tab.  (See screen shot)

The problem still exists IF I print...you only get the first 3 words, an ellipses, then the last three words.  I cannot even copy and paste.  (This has been discussed here https://community.logos.com/forums/t/94348.aspx and Bradley mentions this is a BUG with no response on implementation.)  But, I want to address the truncated highlights to begin with.  Even in the documents.logos.com site, these highlights are truncated.  (See screenshot)

It would be so easy to use webclipper for evernote to move these to a notebook in Evernote through this site if they were not truncated.  Logos, would you please reconsider your implementation of notes and highlights to include to entire text or at least allow us to intuitively use the Quotes tab to copy/paste and print?

Let me address that I know that Clippings is different from Notes and Clippings will allow to a small extent this to work.  However, with thousands of highlights already made over the years since Libronix, this is not an option to change everything over to clippings.  Is there any hope that this will change?

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Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 30 2015 2:25 PM

John Fugh, Jr.:
The problem still exists IF I print...you only get the first 3 words, an ellipses, then the last three words.  I cannot even copy and paste.  (This has been discussed here https://community.logos.com/forums/t/94348.aspx and Bradley mentions this is a BUG with no response on implementation.)  But, I want to address the truncated highlights to begin with.  Even in the documents.logos.com site, these highlights are truncated.  (See screenshot)

John, I checked on the bug tracking case for fixing Print/Export for Quote view in Notes, and it is still active. There was some discussion that had to be ironed out on the implementation, which has accounted for the delay since Bradley's post. I don't have an estimate yet on when it will be implemented, but we haven't lost track of it. Sorry for the inconvenience until this is changed. Sad

Dylan Rondeau, Software Tester

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 1:05 AM

A quick clarification re: Bradley saying it was a bug ... I think he says it is an unimplemented feature. It matters only in the sense of affecting the priority of the report.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Rosie Perera:
the new "Quotes" feature in L6 which shows the entire content of the note

Nitpick: the "Quotes" feature shows the text that was highlighted in the resource. (The "note" is the text you add, which isn't shown at all in Quotes view.)

Rosie Perera:
One might consider this a bug or defect with the Quotes view, that it can't be printed.

It's an unimplemented feature; I'll file a bug report.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 103
mwk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 10:05 AM

Just hit this today trying to export my highlights.

Bradley says it's an "unimplemented feature" which I find disappointing, maddening, bewildering, frustrating and any other similar word one might choose only because it was an "implemented feature" in the prior version of Logos.

I'm slightly confused if this isn't implemented now because of a technical hurdle, or because of an internal discussion of whether we should even be allowed to export full highlights.

If it's technical, what changed between Logos 5 and 6 that allows us to export content some content as John mentioned, but not full highlights?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 10:55 AM

mwk67:
it was an "implemented feature" in the prior version of Logos.

Could you clarify what was an "implemented feature" previously? There isnt anything I am aware of in this thread that was "implemented" previously. The quotes view is new to L6. Highlighting notes in L5 have always truncated the quote in the "subject" line of the note. The mobile app (at least on iOS) had a "bug" which caused the full quote to be shown in the "subject" line.

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Posts 103
mwk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 11:41 AM

Unfortunately, with L5 replaced by L6, I can't go back and give a step-by-step of what I had done or how the options were labeled.

In L5, I read about 10 Logos books on a particular topic. As I read through the books, my highlighted text was put into a Note that I created to be the hub for all these highlights from the different books. When I was done, I exported what was probably two hundred highlights (in full) to a Word doc and then transferred over to Evernote to arrange as a starting point and reminders for lessons I was teaching.

At the time, I couldn't figure out how to export it on my own, but it was a question raised at Camp Logos and we were told how to do it. Otherwise, there's no way I could have moved hundreds of highlights from Logos to Evernote without manually typing all of them.

For Bible study software like this, if Logos allows the ability to put highlights into a Note, they can't be shocked by the idea that people would want to export and use those highlights, not just use them to click to where those highlights were created.

You can't say it's a protection mechanism to prevent someone from highlighting a whole book and then copying it to another place. Because, to a small degree, that's what I was doing as I saw your post. I'm having to open the book I just read in Logos, move to each highlight, then copy/paste it out of the Logos book and paste it into Evernote. I get the same result as I had in L5, just takes more time and is less efficient.

If exporting full highlights was ever considered a "bug" prior to now, that's rather sad in my opinion. I'm not clear what the rationale behind preventing full export of highlights would be.

But if that's the way they look at it, it's back to Amazon when a book is available there. While I know some books there seem to have an upper limit of the amount of highlights you can make, I've yet to hit it with Amazon. For me, at least, it makes Logos less of a complete go-to source and one I would not invest more money in unless there's a resource that's only available through Logos.

Based on what you're saying about a "bug" in allowing you to do it previously, and what Dylan is saying about fixing a bug so you can export, I'm not clear now whether this is something that will be implemented or not in the near future. If not, as I mentioned, I'd sure be curious as to why.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 12:21 PM

mwk67:
If exporting full highlights was ever considered a "bug" prior to now, that's rather sad in my opinion.

I don't know anyone who said that "exporting full highlights" was a bug. What I said is that 1) there was NOT a "quote" view in L5 and 2) the only place in L5 to see "quotes" in the notes document was the subject line of the note. The subject line was never intended to be a means to view highlighted text, let alone to export it. AFAIK, L5 always truncated quotes with an ellipsis. If it didnt always do so, it has been a very long time since the behavior was otherwise (~ 18 months or more?) If you have any notes with the full quote in the subject line, it was likely because you used the mobile app to create the highlight OR you pasted the quote into the subject line. Did you use the mobile app?

mwk67:
But if that's the way they look at it, it's back to Amazon when a book is available there. While I know some books there seem to have an upper limit of the amount of highlights you can make, I've yet to hit it with Amazon.

There is no limit in Logos to how many highlights you can make. There is a limit to how much you can cut and paste within Kindle. 

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Posts 103
mwk | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 12:43 PM

I was putting together my highlights through the first half of 2014. So whatever was allowing me to grab full highlights was in effect then. To be honest, I read so much through different platforms, I couldn't tell you with 100% certainty which platform I used to read each book. My guess is most of it was mobile. I did not paste anything into a subject line. I'm way too lazy to want to do something like that, especially hundreds of times.

As far as Kindle, I wasn't referring to a copy/paste, just the highlighting limits within books bought through Amazon. Certain publishers did set a limit on the number of highlights you could create in books you bought through Amazon. I once got a warning for one book that I was getting close, but I never reached it. In fact, I made quite a lot of highlights after that point and still never hit it. This was a real problem for some people on the Amazon forums at one point because it was affecting them.

I couldn't say for sure if those limits still exist today because I only hit it once about a year or two ago, but I know it did exist for some books in the past which caused an uproar.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 1:19 PM

What is being lost in this discussion is that users have been using Notes to achieve what Logos intended to be done in Clippings. Most likely, this was done because Clipping does not highlight the text clipped while the users wanted it highlighted.

IIRC, L4-L6 Notes never displayed the full highlighted text once it reached a particular (but unknown) length.which is why I went the clippings route. As I rarely export the notes, I don't recall that portion of their behavior.

The question at this point is, given the expansion of types of notes in L6, should the note and clipping functions be combined if a convenient workflow can be designed. If not, should the highlighting function be added to clippings as has been suggested several times?

The second question is are there a sufficient number of users who used Notes as it the title was a clipping to necessitate Faithlife writing a conversion routine?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 604
John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 2:39 PM

MJ. Smith:
What is being lost in this discussion is that users have been using Notes to achieve what Logos intended to be done in Clippings. Most likely, this was done because Clipping does not highlight the text clipped while the users wanted it highlighted.

Yes.  The reasons that I don't use clippings are highlighting the text and shortcuts.

As the OP, here's my bottom line: Is there any intention from logos to reconsider the truncated highlights in the notes?  I guess if I knew what was their plan, it would help me know whether Logos is going to be a "reading" and "studying/research" application or just a "studying/research" application.  With VYRSO and the 10,000's books released on VYRSO, it seems that they would want to be both.

MJ. Smith:
The second question is are there a sufficient number of users who used Notes as it the title was a clipping to necessitate Faithlife writing a conversion routine?

This would certainly help those of us who for years used highlights.  However, there would need to be two corrections with clippings IMO: (1) the ability to highlight the text with shortcuts and (2) the ability to format how the information is displayed (sort of like the copy bible verses allows you to format how the information is outputted).

Posts 494
Greg Masone | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 2:43 PM

Just as a average Logos user who tends to use the iOS app more then the desktop app, I find the highlighting to be counter-intuitive for the reasons talked about here. There is no easy way to review them.

Clippings sounds great, but why are they not on the mobile app?

Posts 22
Ken | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 3:20 PM

If it is just Bible verses you can do this.

1. Open your Highlighter note file and select the Quotes view.

2. Click on the book or ribbon (not sure which it is) icon on the top left to open the menu you use to print/export

3. Click on "Save as Passage List."

4. In the new window which opens click on the book or ribbon icon again in the top left of the window and click on the print/export option.

Posts 604
John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 4:54 PM

Ken:
3. Click on "Save as Passage List."

Thank you, Ken, but when I click on "Save as Passage List, the new window that opens is empty.  For example, if I take the note file used in my original post from Haddon Robinson, when I get to step three, there is nothing in the new passage list.  I always thought that "passage list" was for Scripture passages and not highlights from a book.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 5:15 PM

John Fugh, Jr.:
I always thought that "passage list" was for Scripture passages and not highlights from a book.

It is. Ken said if you were highlighting only bible verses. 

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Posts 604
John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 31 2015 5:16 PM

alabama24:

John Fugh, Jr.:
I always thought that "passage list" was for Scripture passages and not highlights from a book.

It is. Ken said if you were highlighting only bible verses. 

::BLUSH::

I got so excited at the possibility that I missed the fine print...  ;)

Posts 3
Maurice Blackwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 2 2015 9:55 AM

I would like to join in the request to allow exports of highlighted text.  While studying, the flexibility provides great value.  I agree with John and others that this should be designed into the system...

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 2 2015 10:08 AM

John Fugh, Jr.:
I got so excited at the possibility that I missed the fine print...

I do that too. Selective hearing. Smile

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Posts 40
Kevin Todhunter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 4 2015 9:41 AM

In Logos 6 I can click on the Clippings icon, select Print/Export and send all of the clippings in the clippings file (from various books and commentaries) to an RTF file. The option to export to a new Microsoft Word doc fails with an error about COUNT, but at least I can get the full text of all these clippings into Word in almost one step. 

Posts 55
Anne H | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 4 2015 1:27 PM

Maurice Blackwood:

I would like to join in the request to allow exports of highlighted text.  While studying, the flexibility provides great value.  I agree with John and others that this should be designed into the system...

Today was the first time that I actually tried to print the highlights from a theology text for one of my classes to study.  As I use my iPad to read the book on my logos app,  it was very problematic to find out today that I cannot simply print out my highlights from the note file. I can see them in full in a note file with the "quotes" view but cannot get them to print out in full.  The only way I could get a printout was to use clippings and individually add the highlights to a clippings file, then export to word.  Each clipping has the bibliographic information which made the printout twice the length.

It would be extremely beneficial if this could be addressed.

Thank You!Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 4 2015 1:38 PM

Okay, guys & gals ... who's game to try this

  1. Open the resource you highlighted
  2. Do an inline search for the highlighting
  3. Adjust the unit size (verse, paragraph, pericope) to you best fit
  4. Under the resource menu select Print/Export

This ought to come quite close to what you want.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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