Search for preposition used in a certain case.

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J R | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Feb 2 2015 8:53 PM

Is there a way to, for example, search for:

    περι + genitive

Thanks!

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 12:25 AM

This works, on the Morph tab:

(περί BEFORE 1 WORDS @NG) OR (περί BEFORE 1 WORDS @DG) OR (περί BEFORE 1 WORDS @JG) OR (περί BEFORE 1 WORDS @R??G) OR (περί BEFORE 1 WORDS @V?????G) 

Ideally this search could be done like this, but it doesn't work... a bug maybe? (I opened a thread to ask).

περί BEFORE 1 WORDS (@NG, @R??G, @JG, @V??P??G, @DG)

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 12:55 AM

I would swear that I saw a post by a Logos employee recently that specified multiple values for a single column in the morph coding which would allow the collapsing of the @NG, @JG and @DG ... but for the life of me I don't remember enough about it to find it in a google search.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 12:58 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
περί BEFORE 1 WORDS (@NG, @R??G, @JG, @V??P??G, @DG)

It looks as though you only need one "@"

But this does give slightly different results to the longer form of the search - still 222 verses but 482 results as opposed to 504 and I can't work out why

(A detail, in your longer search you have "V?????G" and in the list you have "V??P??G". I used "V?????G" in mine)

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 1:49 AM

Graham Criddle:

It looks as though you only need one "@"

Golly gee willikers, Graham, you're right! Surprise

With the NA28, this search gives 554 results in 250 verses, which is identical to the results of the longer query, so it works!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 2:13 AM

Ah, I've finally proved that the syntax I was thinking of works only on the columns after the first selection. You can do things like @N[AN[ but you can't do @[NJD]G as I had thought.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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J R | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 3:19 AM

Thats awesome, thanks so much!

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 3:35 AM

Graham Criddle:

It looks as though you only need one "@"

Hmmm.... would this be documented anywhere?

Graham Criddle:

But this does give slightly different results to the longer form of the search - still 222 verses but 482 results as opposed to 504 and I can't work out why

Why fewer results?

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 3:48 AM

Lee:

Hmmm.... would this be documented anywhere?

I don't think so... I had checked the Wiki about this point before my initial post, and didn't find anything. It would certainly be worth adding, along with the trick that MJ mentioned of using the [] after the initial choice of the part of speech.

Lee:

Why fewer results?

It's related to the fact that a lot of Greek words aren't translated, especially definitive articles ("the") that aren't necessary in English. Just the untranslated definite articles account for 34 of those "missing" results (try searching for lemma:περί BEFORE 1 WORDS @DG in a Greek vs English to test). 

Basically, if you want to make sure your numbers are correct and aren't missing anything, you need to search against a Greek NT. Then you can always use "Add version" to add an English translation to read along.

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 4:05 AM

Fr Devin Roza:

Lee:

Why fewer results?

It's related to the fact that a lot of Greek words aren't translated, especially definitive articles ("the") that aren't necessary in English. Just the untranslated definite articles account for 34 of those "missing" results (try searching for lemma:περί BEFORE 1 WORDS @DG in a Greek vs English to test). 

Basically, if you want to make sure your numbers are correct and aren't missing anything, you need to search against a Greek NT. Then you can always use "Add version" to add an English translation to read along.

Thanks, I forgot Graham was searching against an English translation.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 11:09 PM

Graham Criddle:

Fr Devin Roza:
περί BEFORE 1 WORDS (@NG, @R??G, @JG, @V??P??G, @DG)

It looks as though you only need one "@"

and it can be  περί BEFORE 1 WORDS @(NG, R??G, JG, V??P??G, DG)

So i updated the search help wiki accordingly. It expands correctly when you click on Bible Search.

Graham Criddle:
But this does give slightly different results to the longer form of the search

In ESV the counts difference is due to Mt 18:19 - the interlinear panel will show 3 Greek words (in the same cell) that satisfy the morphology and the OR method seems to count 2 for each match (=6) whilst the List method seems to count  1 + (3 in list) = 4.

In SBLGNT the difference is due to Acts 25:19 where τινος has 2 matching morphologies and the results are also due to OR counting vs. List counting.

Dave
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 3 2015 11:20 PM

Thanks Dave

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