Why this result w/ BEFORE 1 WORD?

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Brian W. Davidson | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2015 5:43 AM

Why do I get a hit here? יסר is 3 words before על.

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Brian W. Davidson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 5:58 AM

Similarly here and here and here:

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 6:10 AM

I assume these were after your reindexing completed?

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Brian W. Davidson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 6:24 AM

Yes, indeed.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 8:19 AM

In the first case, I don't think it is quite correct to say that the verb is 2 words before the preposition since the coordination is attached. It seems to me that coordination-preposition is counted as "one word". I don't expect that Logos is ready to start counting different parts of a compound words as separate (prefixes and suffixes). 

As for the other examples, I am not sure why you see them as problems. Ce and Le are prepositions and they appear in the word after your verb, so that seems to fit your search criteria. Perhaps I am too tired to see the obvious...

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Brian W. Davidson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 8:22 AM

I do think וְ should be counted as a word. It's a morpheme that has meaning.

And in the last two examples the verbs have pronominal suffixes attached. I would count those pronouns as "words."

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 8:27 AM

Brian W. Davidson:
It's a morpheme that has meaning.

Perhaps so, but it does not make it a word. A neologism is not two words, neo and logism through each part has meaning.

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Brian W. Davidson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 8:30 AM

neologism is not like ויסרתיך

I don't think the concept of "compound word" is relevant for Hebrew. You can look up "neologism" in a lexicon, but you can't look up ויסרתיך in a lexicon for a reason — it isn't a compound word.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 8:38 AM

I am not sure -- in any case -- that Logos has the ability to make those calls. I think it may simply look for groups of letters separated by a space to identify different "words". Perhaps someone else can confirm or infirm this.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 9:26 AM

From what I know, in morph search it is impossible to make Logos consider prefix words or suffix words as separate words. In fact, you can run searches like waw WITHIN 0 WORDS yasar and you'll get the results where waw is attached to yasar.

In syntax search, however, prefix words and suffix words are considered separate words (not very consoling, I know Smile, but it is one way to run the search you're trying to do... and it isn't too hard to put together).

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"WORDS" in the search engine counts a sequence of characters separated by a word-breaking character (as defined by Unicode; cf. UAX 29).

It's possible that a future version of the software may perform proximity searches based on "segments" (in appropriately-tagged Hebrew morph Bibles), which should match Brian's expectation for "words".

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Brian W. Davidson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 9:29 AM

Bradley, thanks for the reply.

Devin, I gave up on syntax search this morning. I appreciate your help there in the Faithlife group, but I still had several "why" questions and threw in the towel.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 9:43 AM

Brian W. Davidson:

2. I gave up on syntax search this morning. I appreciate your help there in the Faithlife group, but I still had several "why" questions and threw in the towel.

Don't worry. Everyone has this type of response when beginning to learn Syntax Search. Angel It's just one of those use-it-when-you-have-to tools, and it takes a good while to learn.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 11:47 AM

Brian W. Davidson:
I gave up on syntax search this morning

I don't know where you're at in your understanding of syntax search but in case you have not seen it yet, you may find the part of the advanced search webinar that explains it helpful.

The webinar is here:

https://www.logos.com/webinar-archive?utm_source=blog&utm_medium=blog.logos.com&utm_content=logostrainingwebinarsareback&utm_campaign=promo-webinar

Click on Playlist in the top left corner of the window and select "Advanced Logos Search Techniques".

If you only want to see the Syntax search part, you can drag the progress indicator to:

  • Between the 26-27 minutes mark for the start of the whole syntax search discussion
  • Between the 31-32 minutes mark for doing a new syntax search (as opposed to using the templates)
  • Around the 35 minutes mark for a more advanced example
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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 27 2015 12:34 PM

Brian W. Davidson:

Why do I get a hit here? יסר is 3 words before על.

Here is the search in Syntax Search - it gives 13 hits.

Also, apart from the video Francis mentioned, another great way to start with Syntax Searching is the document that Jonathan put together a couple of years ago explaining the steps to take. You can connect up to it at https://faithlife.com/logos-syntax-searching/documents. It is called "Creating a Syntax Search".

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