Question re Heiser's "What Do Demons Believe about God?" in March/April 2015 BSM

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LogosEmployee
Mike Heiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 9 2015 11:27 AM

Correct - not meant to be condescending. But it's true. Outside church and seminary, this really is assumed knowledge when studying Israelite religion OT theology.

Yes, this is the foundation for passages like Daniel 10 and Paul's vocabulary for evil spirits (thrones, principalities, authorities, etc. - they are all geographical rulership terms).

The church fathers do have some inkling of this. The best source for that is McDermott's book, God's Rivals (IVP of several years ago). But, generally, we shouldn't expect much from the church fathers when it comes to the ancient Near Eastern / Semitic worldview. They were a millennium or more removed and didn't have access to the primary sources. Basically, you could count on one hand the church fathers who could read Hebrew much less the other material. It's an unreasonable thing to expect of them.

It's not a leap. Just follow the vocabulary through Deuteronomy, then widen the circle. The terminology isn't accidental. The whole issue is much wider than Deut 32:8-9 and Psalm 82.

Posts 5246
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 9 2015 11:51 AM

Mike Heiser:

The whole issue is much wider than Deut 32:8-9 and Psalm 82.

I would definitely agree with this.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 9 2015 1:11 PM

The Deuteronomy texts should be reasonably well known since at least in our Bible class at church, the god-per-nation ('sons of god' / 'divine beings') came up in quite a bit of detail.  But after you leave that bit of info, and presuming an Isaiah time-period, the river of opinions split out uncontrollably, argument-wise.

Being of the literalist persuasion, an 'OT' representing one implied thought process is probably a much later idea.  My current jewish humorist, Abram Spiro, quotes the samaritans lambasting the judeans for hiding text that would have put their priests in genological jeapardy, aka Phnehas.  Apparently the hiding didn't go on forever but the mathematics suffered (Joshua vs Judges).

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LogosEmployee
Mike Heiser | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 9 2015 3:39 PM

This whole idea (nestled as it is alongside others) will make for interesting comments once my book, The Unseen Realm, ships. In its absence, some of what I've written about Deut 32 and Psalm 82 (basically a series of journal articles and my dissertation) is available on my website, www.thedivinecouncil.com. But some of my material isn't publicly available or on Logos. Once the book ships, those items will at least be known (I've also made a companion website for the book -- not live yet -- where lots of sources are listed).

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