Context of Scripture incomplete

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JC54 | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Mar 14 2015 7:08 AM

I own the (outstanding) context of scripture series. But I am rather dissapointed that not all of the indexes in the print edition are also in the electronic edition.

The print edition features, for example, an index on bible passages. But the Logos edition lacks that one. I understand Logos rather sells it's own datasets with this information, but they should still really deliver the complete work I paid for.

Especially since they say that the resource contains "Cross references to related Biblical text." I can't say it doesn't, but without index it is not easy to find all those footnotes etc

So, Logos please gives us the complete stuff for our money!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 7:23 AM

Hi Joren

Joren Menkveld:

But I am rather dissapointed that not all of the indexes in the print edition are also in the electronic edition.

The print edition features, for example, an index on bible passages

Is it only the index on biblical passages which is missing or are there others?

Is this index present in each printed volume or just one?

Joren Menkveld:
I understand Logos rather sells it's own datasets with this information

To which datasets are you referring?

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JC54 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 8:06 AM

Graham Criddle:

Is it only the index on biblical passages which is missing or are there others?

Is this index present in each printed volume or just one?

My teacher Old Testament told me that there was a scripture on biblical passages. I am only sure of the version we have in our library that it contains those indexes. But that is as far as I can see the standard version. After some internet research I have not encountered any variant editions.

Graham Criddle:
To which datasets are you referring?

I shouldn't have attacked Logos, I do not know why the indexes aren't there. But this information is similar to the an important part of the Ancient Literature Dataset (which I do not yet own, hence my desire for this index).

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 8:38 AM

Joren Menkveld:
My teacher Old Testament told me that there was a scripture on biblical passages. I am only sure of the version we have in our library that it contains those indexes. But that is as far as I can see the standard version. After some internet research I have not encountered any variant editions.

I don't have the resource in paper form so just trying to check where the indexes appear, not suggesting that there were different versions of the book.

Still not clear whether there is an index in each volume or one for the entire set.

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JC54 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 10:16 AM

There should be elaborate indexes in the third volume on all three volumes

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 10:27 AM

Joren, Logos sometimes doesn't reproduce Bible indexes that appear in books. Their own Search and Power Lookup features make those indexes pretty much redundant.

You can search for a specific scripture reference or range in the Context of Scripture series by doing a Basic Search with this syntax (notice that I've selected the "Context of Scripture" series as the place to confine the search). This will find all references within CoS to any verses in the book of Genesis, and there are lots.

Or if you'd rather browse through the CoS looking for all the scripture references in the footnotes on any given page, you can open the Power Lookup tool in a panel beside your CoS volume and page through:

Both of these methods are (I believe) more useful than using an index, where you'd have to constantly be jumping back and forth between the index and the text.

But still, I do agree with you that if the print resources contain a Bible Index, the Logos resource should have it too. Other massive works with Bible Indexes (such as the Battles translation of Calvin's Institutes) do have them included in the Logos edition, so it isn't too much to ask for.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 12:50 PM

From a response from Logos on a related question recently, I believe that Logos' policy is now to include indices. Previously it had been to exclude them. Unfortunately I do not know the date of the policy change nor if they intend to add indices to any of the older books.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JC54 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 2:28 PM

Thanks a lot for your replies and tips in finding the references in an easy way. I should be able to deal with it this way!

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 10:31 PM

MJ. Smith:
I believe that Logos' policy is now to include indices

I've always spelled the plural of the kind of index that comes in the back of a book as indexes, and used indices as the plural for "index" when used in a mathematical context. I never knew why I did that; it just felt right, from usages I'd seen, I guess.

Well, I looked it up, and sure enough, that is the accepted practice:

http://www.nasdaqomx.com/transactions/indexes/indexesorindices/ 

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ind2.htm 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 11:13 PM

great fun - thanks. But on Logos forums don't we need to go Logos not Google Wink

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2015 11:32 PM

Find me a good resource in Logos that explains the difference between spelling it indexes vs. indices and I'll feel properly contrite. Wink

But this is all I found (after the fact) and it clearly isn't sufficient to have made my point:

Now if I had some good English grammar resources in Logos I might have thought to go to Logos first for this. But actually, truth be told, for general info I turn to Google 9 times out of 10. Even for biblical/theological/biographical/historical queries, I probably do 30% of my searches in Google. Sometimes I just can't be bothered with the rigmarole of prep it takes to get the perfect answer in Logos, and for some strange reason Google usually knows just what I was looking for.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2015 12:19 AM

Where I suspected that with a collection biased to older works and Latin works, Logos would give me an answer that was not necessarily representative but likely unlike Google. I was startled by how biased towards indices my collection is ... something to mull over for an explanation.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2015 1:41 AM

Mine is also highly biased towards indices, but the point is how is that word being used in most of those hits? If it's Latin, weed it out. My quest is to find out whether it's more common to spell the plural of index when it is referring to the thing at the back of a book as indices or indexes. And I'd probably bias my search towards works written in the past 50-100 years, because we speak and write on forums in more contemporary English.

Since I don't have the time nor the method to pick through every usage of the word indices to see whether what it is being used for, I tried a simple experiment: search only in Large Text.

This time INDEXES rules, and that's even before weeding out the three hits on the right that appear in non-English text and are thus not relevant.

BTW, is there a way to limit one's search to English text (or Latin or whatever other language)? One of the new Logos 6 search extensions? I couldn't find anything for searching within a particular language.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2015 2:06 AM

I believe this only works for text that is not in the language that is defined in the metadata but ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 159
Wayne Clarke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2015 3:00 AM

I thought I would jump in on the discussion.  I didn’t use Logos or Google to try and figure out the correct word useage, I just went to my Bible because it has all the answers.  In Scripture, from Genesis 1:1 to the last verse of Revelation, I could only find references to the word indices and never to the word indexes.  So, I have to go with Rosie on this one and say the correct use is indices, from a Biblical perspective.  Here is my proof:

In Genesis 1:22 KJV it says, “And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters indices, and let fowl multiply in the earth.”

Leviticus 11:9 KJV says, “These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, indices, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.”

In Leviticus 11:10 KJV it says, “And all that have not fins and scales indices, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you…”

Psalms 135:6 KJV says, “Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, indices, and all deep places.”

So as you can see, a number of times the KJV Bible uses the word in-di-ces!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2015 10:59 AM

Big Smile

(but I was the one who used indices in the first place not Rosie Stick out tongue )

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2015 1:35 PM

Ha ha, very cute, Wayne. Indeed, though, you're just showing why Martha was right all along. Wink

Posts 159
Wayne Clarke | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2015 3:44 PM

I am so sorry Martha.  I have now learned that I cannot be both funny and correct at the same time!  Embarrassed

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