Logos Original Language Improvements Vs Accordance 11

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Michael | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Mar 23 2015 12:36 PM

I'm a new Logos users and looking into learning Greek and Hebrew in my spare time.  I've searched the forums and the web looking at comparisons between Logos and Accordance.  Accordance has consistently been touted as better for original language study.  I wanted to ask if that gap has closed with the features available in Logos 6.

I'm a novice, so to me the tools available in Logos 6 seems pretty good with the various interlinear options and the high definition modules.

I haven't seen a recent comparison between Accordance 11 and Logos 6 as it pertains to original language study.  Has the landscape changed at all or is Accordance still considered the better options in this area?

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John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 1:13 PM

I had thoughts of jumping ship before Logos 6. However, I have been more than happy with the language improvements in L6 and haven't looked back since. 

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Posts 258
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 1:21 PM

Which of the new improvements have you been using or appreciate the most?

I'm definitely heavily invested into Logos at this point and very happy with the functionality so far.  But as I consider learning the original languages I want to take into consideration the strength and weaknesses of both platforms.  Since original language is often mentioned as a comparative weakness for Logos, I'd like to have someone with more experience elaborate on this subject.

Doing some more research it appears that Accordance has the New English Translation of the Septuagint and Logos doesn't.  Is this an issue?

The Accordance original language bundle is only $299, so I'm willing to consider it in addition to Logos.

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HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 1:49 PM

Shalom Michael!

Did you read this thread?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 1:58 PM

Michael:
 Since original language is often mentioned as a comparative weakness for Logos, I'd like to have someone with more experience elaborate on this subject.

I do not have Accordance so cannot compare the two. However, like you, I have been interested in what Accordance offers that Logos might not offer, so I read threads like this.

Here's what I have been able to glean:

1. The two programs are not very far apart for language study anymore. I think this has been the case for some time. Accordance executes searches faster. That's a theme that reoccurs. Basic functions are mostly the same. Perhaps Logos is ahead in some areas with what was released in L6.

2. From what I can read of Accordance 11 they are playing catch-up with some of Logos' non-language tools and interface. Read here and you won't find anything to do with improved language study.

3. Some people who like Accordance do not like its interface. They prefer Logos' interface.

4. Some of our users who have used Accordance in the past no longer do so. I haven't heard of the reverse happening, but, of course, this is the Logos Forum not the Accordance Forum.

That's what I've gleaned about the current relationship between the two programs. I suspect a lot of the feeling that Accordance is superior goes back to seminary professors who learned Accordance back in the day it was superior and either don't care about Logos or are not interested in learning a new program and re-investing in resources.

Learning Hebrew and Greek is a whole lot more than a software program, and neither Accordance nor Logos are intended to teach you the languages. I suspect you will make no faster progress with Accordance than with Logos, and you already have Logos. Use the $300 to buy BDAG/HALOT if you don't already have them.

Bottom line for me: owning Accordance isn't compelling for me. Yet I will pay attention to what others say here.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 258
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 3:06 PM

H.-J.van der Wal:

Shalom Michael!

Did you read this thread?

Shalom!

Yes, I did read that thread.  Only one person really mentions anything about original languages in their post and it was brief. Most of the post are responding in broad generalities about the programs.  I feel most comparative discussions devolves into a discussions between speed (Accordance) and resources (Logos).  I'm not opposed to using both programs.  I'm just trying to get a feel for how Logos fares with original language study today.  My search results usually lead to discussion from 2012 or earlier.  So I'm looking for a more recent impression.

Mark Smith:

Michael:
 Since original language is often mentioned as a comparative weakness for Logos, I'd like to have someone with more experience elaborate on this subject.

I do not have Accordance so cannot compare the two. However, like you, I have been interested in what Accordance offers that Logos might not offer, so I read threads like this.

Here's what I have been able to glean:

1. The two programs are not very far apart for language study anymore. I think this has been the case for some time. Accordance executes searches faster. That's a theme that reoccurs. Basic functions are mostly the same. Perhaps Logos is ahead in some areas with what was released in L6.

2. From what I can read of Accordance 11 they are playing catch-up with some of Logos' non-language tools and interface. Read here and you won't find anything to do with improved language study.

3. Some people who like Accordance do not like its interface. They prefer Logos' interface.

4. Some of our users who have used Accordance in the past no longer do so. I haven't heard of the reverse happening, but, of course, this is the Logos Forum not the Accordance Forum.

That's what I've gleaned about the current relationship between the two programs. I suspect a lot of the feeling that Accordance is superior goes back to seminary professors who learned Accordance back in the day it was superior and either don't care about Logos or are not interested in learning a new program and re-investing in resources.

Learning Hebrew and Greek is a whole lot more than a software program, and neither Accordance nor Logos are intended to teach you the languages. I suspect you will make no faster progress with Accordance than with Logos, and you already have Logos. Use the $300 to buy BDAG/HALOT if you don't already have them.

Bottom line for me: owning Accordance isn't compelling for me. Yet I will pay attention to what others say here.

This was very helpful.  Thank you.  I already have BDAG/HALOT.  I have Logos 6 Platinum and added HALOT along with NICOT/NICNT and the Tyndale Commentary set among other things like Hebrew Audio.  2015 has started off with a bang (to my wallet as least).  Smile

I understand neither of these programs with teach me the languages.  I'm just interested in what is considered the better tool.  Based on your post and my overall impression at this point in time, it appears that Logos 6 has closed the gap sufficiently where it doesn't matter too much which program you use for this purpose.

I've been messing around with the Accordance 11 demo the last few weeks and I'm definitely in the camp that feels that Logos has a better interface.  Yes, Logos is slower.  A lot slower at startup for sure.  But it's also nicer in other areas.  One of the deal breakers for me is that Accordance 11 doesn't work too well on my Surface Pro 3.  Apparently menu items and buttons aren't designed to scale properly on high DPI screens.  I still decided to keep looking into this further since Accordance has consistently been recommended for original language study.

On the topic of Logos' interface 2 things would really make it even more usable than it already is.

1.  Customizable backgrounds/fonts/themes for each window.  Something that's available in Accordance and OliveTree

2.  Linked resources being able to designate which one is the main/parent window.  Available in OliveTree.  Not sure about Accordance.

Both of these features have a post on User Voice and I've already spent my 3 votes on them.  Praying they get implemented in this version of Logos.  Smile

Anyhow, it looks like I'll just stick to Logos for now.  Thanks for all the input.

Posts 3297
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 3:28 PM

I have both but hardly ever open Accordance anymore. The language tools aren't much better if better at all in Accordance. Accordance is not user friendly and if you are invested in Logos it is a pretty steep learning curve.

The only reason I ever go to Accordance is for Barnes Notes, and only because I can't bring myself to buy them again in Logos format.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 3:48 PM

Michael:
2.  Linked resources being able to designate which one is the main/parent window.  Available in OliveTree.  Not sure about Accordance.

Definitely one that I want and have asked for.

Michael:
Apparently menu items and buttons aren't designed to scale properly on high DPI screens.

It is helpful to know that Accordance doesn't seem to play well on high DPI monitors, as those are all the rage. That isn't good if it is so.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 41
Todd Beall | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 4:40 PM

Michael, Bibleworks is also a program to consider for original language study. I have it, and use nothing else for the basic Bible tools. It is super fast. Of course, I own lots of resources in Logos as well. 

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 5:29 PM

Michael:

I'm a new Logos users and looking into learning Greek and Hebrew in my spare time.  I've searched the forums and the web looking at comparisons between Logos and Accordance.  Accordance has consistently been touted as better for original language study.  I wanted to ask if that gap has closed with the features available in Logos 6.

I'm a novice, so to me the tools available in Logos 6 seems pretty good with the various interlinear options and the high definition modules.

I haven't seen a recent comparison between Accordance 11 and Logos 6 as it pertains to original language study.  Has the landscape changed at all or is Accordance still considered the better options in this area?

Logos, Accordance and BibleWorks have a few things in common:

  1. They are all excellent software for original language studies.
  2. They all have more features and resources available than most beginning students of the original languages need.
  3. They all have learning curves to use the software to the fullest and to tap into the more complex original language features.

BibleWorks is not a theological library, at least to date, and therefore does not offer the resources of the other two. It is really good at original language studies and is not really helpful if you do not have some proficiency in those languages. The learning curve in my opinion is the steepest of the three.

Accordance can do some amazing searches, but you need to know why you would use those searches. Many of those features, while cool, are most beneficial to scholars or those advanced in the original languages. The software has great features are helpful to those learning the languages, but they are mostly available in the other software as well.

Logos has clause searching, syntax searching, bible sense, LXX that is tagged with both Greek and Hebrew, reverse interlinears etc. You can get to ancient literature and texts from the passage guide. Again, some of the more advanced searches are very cool, but as a beginner in Greek and Hebrew you probably won't be using many of those advanced features right away either. I still have to go back and figure out how to do some syntax searches just because I do not use that feature as often. Logos has great tools for learning the languages along with the other software.

I have each of the programs, have reviewed over the years each of the programs and can state they are all great. You are invested in Logos, so unless you want to spend time learning and retaining other software to get the most out of it, or unless there is a specific need that is not being met, I think you have all the resources and more for your studies for many years. You are blessed.

Maybe I was proficient at these programs at one time, but I have found I cannot retain how to do tasks I don't use often. One can easily spend more time with the programs rather than in the Word or learning the languages.

Hope this helps.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 5:37 PM

John Fidel:
Hope this helps.

Clear and helpful, as usual, John.

John Fidel:
One can easily spend more time with the programs rather than in the Word or learning the languages.

Oh, yes.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 258
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 5:47 PM

John Fidel:

Michael:

I'm a new Logos users and looking into learning Greek and Hebrew in my spare time.  I've searched the forums and the web looking at comparisons between Logos and Accordance.  Accordance has consistently been touted as better for original language study.  I wanted to ask if that gap has closed with the features available in Logos 6.

I'm a novice, so to me the tools available in Logos 6 seems pretty good with the various interlinear options and the high definition modules.

I haven't seen a recent comparison between Accordance 11 and Logos 6 as it pertains to original language study.  Has the landscape changed at all or is Accordance still considered the better options in this area?

Logos, Accordance and BibleWorks have a few things in common:

  1. They are all excellent software for original language studies.
  2. They all have more features and resources available than most beginning students of the original languages need.
  3. They all have learning curves to use the software to the fullest and to tap into the more complex original language features.

BibleWorks is not a theological library, at least to date, and therefore does not offer the resources of the other two. It is really good at original language studies and is not really helpful if you do not have some proficiency in those languages. The learning curve in my opinion is the steepest of the three.

Accordance can do some amazing searches, but you need to know why you would use those searches. Many of those features, while cool, are most beneficial to scholars or those advanced in the original languages. The software has great features are helpful to those learning the languages, but they are mostly available in the other software as well.

Logos has clause searching, syntax searching, bible sense, LXX that is tagged with both Greek and Hebrew, reverse interlinears etc. You can get to ancient literature and texts from the passage guide. Again, some of the more advanced searches are very cool, but as a beginner in Greek and Hebrew you probably won't be using many of those advanced features right away either. I still have to go back and figure out how to do some syntax searches just because I do not use that feature as often. Logos has great tools for learning the languages along with the other software.

I have each of the programs, have reviewed over the years each of the programs and can state they are all great. You are invested in Logos, so unless you want to spend time learning and retaining other software to get the most out of it, or unless there is a specific need that is not being met, I think you have all the resources and more for your studies for many years. You are blessed.

Maybe I was proficient at these programs at one time, but I have found I cannot retain how to do tasks I don't use often. One can easily spend more time with the programs rather than in the Word or learning the languages.

Hope this helps.

Thanks!  This is great advice.  I'll stick to Logos and concentrate on learning the language and not more software. 

Posts 2720
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 8:07 PM

I think you made a wise choice and stated the priority succinctly. Blessings on your studies

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 23 2015 9:19 PM

Michael wrote:  "Thanks!  This is great advice.  I'll stick to Logos and concentrate on learning the language and not more software."

In my opinion, that is a very wise decision. 

I think the programs are probably of equal value in doing original language work.  But you will not get full value from either unless you study the languages, especially grammar. 

You can do a little basic language study in both without serious language study, but you can't really do that much.  And you are far more likely to jump to wrong conclusions if you try to do so.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 24 2015 12:38 AM

John Fidel:
One can easily spend more time with the programs rather than in the Word or learning the languages.

Thanks John! At one point I thought I would buy all three and then learn them and help friends using them. But I soon saw that I can learn only one well, so I'll stick with Logos. I also feel that the current features and resources are more than I can make use now (but maybe later).

Syntax search is fun. I don't understand it very well yet, and I am a beginner in the original languages. But I can do the syntax search with "trial and error" method, it keeps the user active and is not boring at all. Compare with reading the Greek grammar!

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 24 2015 4:03 AM

Mark Smith:
4. Some of our users who have used Accordance in the past no longer do so. I haven't heard of the reverse happening, but, of course, this is the Logos Forum not the Accordance Forum.

That would be me. Accordance is a fine program, but I was heavily invested in Logos. Trying to effectively use two different applications involved duplication of some very expensive resources. So when it came time to decide, Logos won. Transferred all my Accordance resources to one of my grandsons, who is now in Bible College (He also gets Logos when I go Home Cool)

Bottom line: If you are already heavily invested in Logos, I see no reason to switch—or to add a second application. This is just my personal opinion. 

Posts 521
Sarel Slabbert | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 24 2015 7:16 AM

Veli Voipio:

John Fidel:
One can easily spend more time with the programs rather than in the Word or learning the languages.

Thanks John! At one point I thought I would buy all three and then learn them and help friends using them. But I soon saw that I can learn only one well, so I'll stick with Logos. I also feel that the current features and resources are more than I can make use now (but maybe later).

Syntax search is fun. I don't understand it very well yet, and I am a beginner in the original languages. But I can do the syntax search with "trial and error" method, it keeps the user active and is not boring at all. Compare with reading the Greek grammar!

A good friend of mine has a great saying: the best software is not the one with the most features. It is the one you knows best. Most Bible software are so advanced (Accordance, BibleWorks, Logos etc.) that most users will never use them to their full abilities. All these software is good, but the one you knows best is the best software for you.

Posts 791
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 24 2015 8:26 AM

I think each has their own strengths and weakness. And each have their own function. Like BW can be used primarily for Biblical languages study while Logos and be used for Theology and Acc can be used for standard Bible study with some Theology and BL studying as well.

Posts 258
Michael | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 24 2015 8:34 AM

James Hiddle:

I think each has their own strengths and weakness. And each have their own function. Like BW can be used primarily for Biblical languages study while Logos and be used for Theology and Acc can be used for standard Bible study with some Theology and BL studying as well.

Much has already been said, but can you elaborate on why you feel Logos isn't as capable to do all of the functions you listed?  I've been using Logos for standard Bible study, theology, and a very limited about with Biblical languages and it's working pretty well so I'm interested in specific examples on how the other programs may be consider better in one area or another rather than painting each with a broad stroke.  I think it's useful to continue discussions in this way rather than speaking in general terms.

Thanks in advance.

Posts 492
R. Mansfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 24 2015 9:35 AM

I'm going to try to walk a fine line here.

I work for Accordance, and I've been watching this post since Michael was alone in his question with no responses. I don't wish to violate and any forum policies--I realize I'm a guest in this house, but I should also point out that I'm a longterm Logos customer/user as well. In fact, my first purchase of Logos titles actually predates my first Accordance purchase because I only used Windows in the early nineties. 

Anyway, while I could write an extensive rebuttal to some of what's been posted here, I don't believe that's appropriate to do. I'm not suggesting anyone switch platforms; but I would suggest, Michael, that if you really want to get a fair shake on your question, you post it in the Accordance forums as well. There, contrary to what Mark Smith noted from his anecdotal evidence, you will find users who have switched platforms in "other" directions (again, I'm not suggesting anyone do that) and users who are familiar with both programs who might have a difference of opinion as to the strengths of each for original language study. 

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