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This post has 297 Replies | 18 Followers

Posts 32
Dorothy Pollock | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:49 PM

Mark Smith:

Dorothy Pollock:
I am very happy where I am and add commentaries as I go.

That's a nice story. I am sure your son feels good about finally buying something for his mother that she might not have bought for herself.

(Did you know that Logos offers a Wish List that you can share with others? Wink )

Thanks. I'm not sure I am to be encouraged in such things ... Smile

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:51 PM

Dorothy Pollock:
Thanks. I'm not sure I am to be encouraged in such things ... Smile

Dorothy, allow him to do something for the one who has brought him this far. His way of saying I appreciate you and I love you.

Everything ever written in Religion and Theology formatted for Logos Bible Software.Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 32
Dorothy Pollock | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:55 PM

I know and thanks. It was a big gift given from a loving place and I enjoyed receiving it as much as he enjoyed giving it.
It makes using it even more special.

Dorothy

Posts 98
Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 5:36 PM

Nathan Parker:

I've emailed my sales rep to go for my free month trial and sign me up as soon as he has a chance to pull the trigger.

You don't have to wait. Just put Logos Now in your shopping cart and start to check out. It automatically applies the $8.95 discount.

Posts 98
Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 5:47 PM

Mark:

But just some thoughts for Faithlife to keep in mind:

Not all places on earth have internet connection.  Not all places on earth will allow a logos internet connection.  There is something to be said about having Logos in some form in the future as downloadable.

I agree. I would also like to add that I have paid a substantial sum for my library. Having a downloadable version makes me feel secure in knowing that if something were to happen to Faithlife as a company, my personal investment will not be lost. I have access to everything I bought and can continue to use it.

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 5:56 PM

Dan:
I agree. I would also like to add that I have paid a substantial sum for my library. Having a downloadable version makes me feel secure in knowing that if something were to happen to Faithlife as a company, my personal investment will not be lost. I have access to everything I bought and can continue to use it.

Has that changed since Logos offered this new service? You still own what you've bought. Logos Now lets you use what you haven't bought... for a fee.

Posts 98
Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:09 PM

Kent:

Has that changed since Logos offered this new service? You still own what you've bought.

Correct. It has not changed. I was joining in Mark's thoughts to Faithlife as to why we, the users, like the downloadable version of the product.

Kent:

Logos Now lets you use what you haven't bought... for a fee.

Today it allows me early access to resources that I would have had to wait until Logos 7 to use. Only time will tell to see which features are made exclusive to Logos Now users only. If I don't see any value in those exclusive features or club benefits, then I will simply cancel the subscription and buy whichever datasets Logos Now had when/if they are made available for individual purchase.

Posts 1907
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:17 PM

Kent:
Has that changed since Logos offered this new service?

No, of course it has not changed.  But statements have been made and some of us have a big investment in this program that we have every right to make sure it is said enough and often, that we do not want the company to forget to always have a downloadable option in some form of some kind (such as what you have with Kindle).

I am all for the idea behind Logos Now and all for thinking of the future. 

Posts 176
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:03 PM

David Taylor Jr:

James Hudson:

Lynden Williams:

Mark Barnes:
But, generally, you're right — and I would also much prefer that the new datasets were available to purchase.

Old Testament Propositonal Bible Outline 39.95

Greek Grammatical Constructions Dataset 14.95

Commandments of the Law 5.95

Visual Copy Templates 24.95

Author Slide Templates 24.95

Logos Stock Media vol. 24.95

Total cost if purchased seperately: $135.70

Monthly $8.95

If the point of this post is the 'great' cost [$8.95 v $135.70]], then this seems a false argument. With a single payment [in the example quoted for these resources] of $135.70, I would own the 'resources/datasets' etc forever, rather than paying $90 pa [for the rest of my life if I wanted to keep them, - if I didn't pay my $90 after the 3rd year, for example, I loose them all even though I had paid $270 to Logos].

I guess secondly, if Logos goes under, I would also have(own) the 'resources'. Using a rental model, if Logos goes down, I will loose the resources [I guess that Logos does a 'phone home' each month to check that I've subscribed this month - so if there is noone to phone home to, I guess the resources will become disabled!]. Furthermore, with server outages a real possibilty [see this last year], there are real issues with this system.

Thus, Logos Now seems to be not only MORE EXPENSIVE, it is also LESS SECURE!

PS On a separate note, I don't understand why a 6 weekly cycle logically implies ONLY a rental system. I'd pay for updates every 6 weeks under the buy-to-own model!

Every blessing,

James

Remember the 6 week cycle means more updated features so to say you will always be paying 8.95 for the current offering is not exactly the right way to look at it.

True - I was only using that as an example as that was what I thought was being implied by giving the costs.

However, the points still stand

(i) a one-off payment for each new 6-weekly feature will need to be continually paid for life, as a break in payment will remove them from your Logos. In fact the more you rent, the more you stand to lose and the more you will be hooked into monthly payments. Buying to own will always be cheaper in the long run with the additional (and significant) benefit that you get to keep them forever!!

(ii) There appears no reason why the 6 weekly cycle cannot work with those of us who are buyers and not renters. As I said, I'd pay for a 'bought' update every 6 weeks!

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:22 PM

Dan:

Nathan Parker:

I've emailed my sales rep to go for my free month trial and sign me up as soon as he has a chance to pull the trigger.

You don't have to wait. Just put Logos Now in your shopping cart and start to check out. It automatically applies the $8.95 discount.

True. I just like being loyal to a sales rep. Give me a more pleasant experience to work directly with a rep.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 24
Bill Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:42 PM

Keith Larson:

Mark Smith:

William Roth:
It seems that all Logos would have to do is promise free crossgrades after, say 24 months of Logos Now, and people would be clamoring to subscribe.  Or maybe offer the next crossgrade on dynamic pricing that honestly accounts for the preceding Logos Now subscription.

Welcome, William.

I think you are on the right track, but so far Faithlife has not made any promises. I think it would strengthen the offering considerably for Faithlife to make a specific commitment to some sort of dynamic or discounted pricing on future upgrades. The more folks who ask for this the better in my opinion.

This is definitely the issue that is troubling most of us. I have signed up for the "free month" to kick the tires, but if Logos does not give some credit towards the next base package upgrade, I think $8.99 per month is hard to justify. Perhaps I will be blow away by the "media and data" content that is independent of future base packages or perhaps the coupon offers will be fantastic. I hope Logos understand they have just one month to win us over. It only takes a click of a mouse to cancel.

There is another point to be made on this subject.  Logos has consistently in the past operated under the model of something like "you'll never have to pay for the same thing twice."  If there is no free or highly discounted crossgrade for long duration Logos Now subscribers, then we will indeed be paying for the same thing twice.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 9:39 PM

Bill Roth:
There is another point to be made on this subject.  Logos has consistently in the past operated under the model of something like "you'll never have to pay for the same thing twice."  If there is no free or highly discounted crossgrade for long duration Logos Now subscribers, then we will indeed be paying for the same thing twice.

Not to argue but we will be getting the use of features for our money. So far we don't know if we will ever own them, but I am certainly hopeful Faithlife will allow that at least by the time of the next major upgrade (Logos 7). So in a sense even if we have to pay for them again with Logos 7, we have used them for quite some time before that and have paid for that use. It isn't fully one way or the other. A bit of both, which is why I hope Faithlife will factor that into upgrade pricing in some way.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1811
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 11:04 PM

Phil Gons:

What do you get with Logos Now?

  1. Special membership benefits such as exclusive offers, special discounts, and more.

What does the first release include?

  1. Membership benefits (e.g., exclusive offers, special discounts)

Phil, can you elaborate on these please...

As of now, Logos Now is no different than biblia site.

Posts 2016
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 12:32 AM

I am still scratching my head wondering why I can have a feature/dataset now if I rent it for less, but it isn't possible to have it for 2+ years if I buy it for more.  

Posts 212
Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 12:36 AM

Mark Smith:

Bill Roth:
There is another point to be made on this subject.  Logos has consistently in the past operated under the model of something like "you'll never have to pay for the same thing twice."  If there is no free or highly discounted crossgrade for long duration Logos Now subscribers, then we will indeed be paying for the same thing twice.

Not to argue but we will be getting the use of features for our money. So far we don't know if we will ever own them, but I am certainly hopeful Faithlife will allow that at least by the time of the next major upgrade (Logos 7). So in a sense even if we have to pay for them again with Logos 7, we have used them for quite some time before that and have paid for that use. It isn't fully one way or the other. A bit of both, which is why I hope Faithlife will factor that into upgrade pricing in some way.

If Logos makes the promise that the paid subscription fee will fully or partly (50% or more) be usable as credit when upgrading to Logos 7, I will subscribe today without hesitating.

If Logos 7 will be released in 2 years, that would mean $192 in subscription fees. It's a shame paying that amount of money, and having to pay the full upgrade price to be able to keep on using them (owning them). Owning books/features/datasets means a big deal to me. But paying twice for the same feature just te be able to own it, feels wrong.

Maybe a Logos employee would be so kind to give us a bit of clarity on this issue.

Posts 2849
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 1:31 AM

GregW:

Phil Gons:
We'd like to offer annual billing eventually, which would be $89.99.

This would help those of us not in the US: I have to pay a transaction fee every time I buy anything from Logos, so this would save me the transaction fee every month. 

You are right , that 's what I have beeing considering as well.

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 2849
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 1:37 AM

Is the subsctiption only for new features or resources as well?

Blessings in Christ.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 1:43 AM

Tes:

Is the subsctiption only for new features or resources as well?

Currently it is only for features, datasets and perks ... not resources.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 1:46 AM

Gao Lu:

I am still scratching my head wondering why I can have a feature/dataset now if I rent it for less, but it isn't possible to have it for 2+ years if I buy it for more.  

  1. in many cases because the product isn't finished yet. It is "in development"
  2. the steady stream of revenue is important for reasons bob mentioned... They need to encourage users to subscribe. 

Hopefully ly some of the "perks" will include something like a discount on a base package / cross grade purchase based on how long a member has subscribed. That would mitigate most users concerns, I think. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 1:49 AM

Simon:

If Logos 7 will be released in 2 years, that would mean $192 in subscription fees. It's a shame paying that amount of money, and having to pay the full upgrade price to be able to keep on using them (owning them). Owning books/features/datasets means a big deal to me. But paying twice for the same feature just te be able to own it, feels wrong.

This was discussed extensively in the beta. I think the problem is that Logos doesn't know now what percentage of the features and datasets will appropriately translate into the owned version ... so all they can say is that they will strive to be fait. And if we demanded that they set the percentage upfront, it would hobble their ability to adjust their development to reflect users' response.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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