Monthy Subscription Starts with "Logos Now"

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This post has 38 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 694
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2015 4:51 PM

The forums have discussed the pros and cons of Logos in a subscription mode. Now it's here. What do you think?

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 4:59 PM

Thanks for spotlighting this. My first thought is too snarky - I will have to consider this more.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:00 PM

Also, Logos Now has its own forum, and there's already a very active discussion taking place over there.

Posts 9080
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:20 PM

Personally, I don't like it!  The idea of a subscription, as was brought up in the past by some users, was to allow people to use Logos, test drive it and then that might lead them to purchase a base package; but this? Why do I have to subscribe when I already own Platinum? Shouldn't all the goodies be included in Gold and above, as it already is, since you get full functionality when you get Gold and above and partial functionality Silver and down.

So what? There's some new features I can only have access to through a subscription, but not by spending a lot of money on a higher base package? I'm sorry, but no thanks.  As far as I can tell from the discussions is all about data sets and improved functionality, nothing is said about you having access to other resources (i.e. Books, Lexicons, New Commentaries, etc.) that are not included in any base package.  New features it's what it boils down to and I'm not interested if they'll be included in Logos 7 and future versions.  I'd rather keep my Netflix subscription and not sign up for this.

Anyway, not being negative or anything, just stating my opinion.  I just don't see what the excitement is all about.  

If Logos had said, "You will have access to our entire catalog with the subscription," maybe I would give it a try to use as needed high ranked commentaries as NICOT/NICNT, WBC, NIVAC, etc, but for new features? Who would use such features anyway? I'm sure most of the Logosians here have never used Logos to it's full potential (and that includes power users too). The program is rich in content and features that most don't get used, and now subscribe to other features that you will not really use but maybe a few times here and there...eh, I think I'll pass.  I'll settle for upgrading my base packages when new versions come along - it adds more books and also new features and data sets.  Again, I don't see what the excitement is all about with this new "subscription" for Logos Now.  I already have Logos "now," and since the day I bought my first base package and will continue to have it when I upgrade to my next level base package.

I just hope Logos doesn't get rid of all the base packages and start with this "subscription" thing.  It will be extremely disappointing if they did so.

Enough said...

DAL

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 5:38 PM

DAL, think positive.  Sure you invested large sums. But that's now behind us.

 Want to use prop outlines in Isa after using them in Mat. Cough up some dough. And don't forget to keep coughing ... else you're back to Mat.

Been coughing a while but you're only getting value on some earlier tools?  Keep coughing ... they all disappear if you stop coughing.

(When you rent, you keep paying.)

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 9080
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 7:09 PM

Denise:

DAL, think positive.  Sure you invested large sums. But that's now behind us.

 Want to use prop outlines in Isa after using them in Mat. Cough up some dough. And don't forget to keep coughing ... else you're back to Mat.

Been coughing a while but you're only getting value on some earlier tools?  Keep coughing ... they all disappear if you stop coughing.

(When you rent, you keep paying.)

That's The problem Denise when your cough becomes chronic it kills you.

DAL

Posts 36061
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 7:54 PM

As long as I think only in terms of what I want, it's simple - I want it all, I want it now, and I want it at my price. I've spent a few decades trying to teach foster teens that the world rarely works this way. But what have I purchased from Faithlife? The resources I want the most (and whatever came in the bundles with them), major new features every couple of years and maintenance/improvements between the major features purchases. I can continue with this model.

However, when I look at my grandson's generation, he wants something that he can afford on an ongoing basis until he finally get to the point of financial solvency that he can afford occasional big expenses (admittedly housing expenses are particularly high here making if much harder for young couples to get by). he's using to his entertainment being a variable, ephemeral collection - wanting the most recent reference book not the one he used in Prof X's class. And yes, there are a core of things he wishes to own. I applaud Logos for trying to serve this market while not upsetting my preferred pattern ... and making an option that allows me the best of both worlds.

Added advantages: I expect software quality to rise and Faithlife to be able to do better planning with a less uneven income stream.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 8:00 PM

DAL:

That's The problem Denise when your cough becomes chronic it kills you.

DAL

As my father would say - when he was a kid it was folk wisdom and eating cherries and ice cream was fatal. He and a cousin (ten year olds) had gotten into the cherries against Grandmother's instructions, only to find she had a surprise - ice cream. They decided to eat the ice cream rather than 'fess up to having gotten into the cherries. Sure enough it killed his cousin Dutch ... in about 78 years. It took a decade longer to kill Dad. But they both died ... clearly it was the cherries and ice cream that did them in.

P.S. Dad was an elder and his father and great uncle preachers for the Church of Christ (Standard Publication variety)

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2552
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:10 PM

"Snarky" is an interesting word.  Now back to the topic.

When Adobe Photoshop went to the subscription model, it became clear that I was satisfied with what I already had and didn't need more, the latest and didn't have to have it now.  

The same thing is happening with Logos. What will subscription look like in the future? I don't know, but for now, it feels a lot easier to say "no" to.    

Posts 36061
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 6 2015 9:29 PM

Gao Lu:

The same thing is happening with Logos. What will subscription look like in the future? I don't know, but for now, it feels a lot easier to say "no" to.    

The real test of the new strategy will be how you react when L7 is released. If the percentage who chose either rental or Logos 7 remains similar to the percentage who normally upgrade, Logos will have planned correctly. in the meantime, we each make the choice that seems best for ourselves then wait and see.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 3:48 AM

I'm a little concerned (not too strongly) about features and/or datasets that are only available to Logos Now subscribers.  I guess I will need to make some kind of a value judgment on those to try and decide if having them is worth it to me with an on-going payment versus being able to buy them outright (which apparently I would not be able to do?).  There is question that follows in regard to those things being incorporated into the next version of Logos while newer features.datasets come to the subscription.  In other words, could I get them down the road at some point by purchasing them outright.

Hmmm ...  I need to think on this more.  Tongue Tied

Posts 1062
Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:52 AM

I'll also have to think about this more. The question is whether I would rather spend my money buying books I'll probably never read (traditional approach), or get early access to datasets and features I'll probably never use PLUS get discounts on additional books I'll probably never read (subscription).

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 5:01 AM

According to Phil's post they will be updating in 6 week cycles. Why not wait the first 3/4 cycles and then take advantage of the free first month, and if there is not anything worth your while, cancel your subscription before you are charged. Canceling can be done via the web.

Lynden Williams Communications

Posts 3541
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:46 AM

Given the list of priorities they have posted I think it is going to be very good. I like the web app idea as well, not very useful at the moment, but I see great potential and it could be very useful to people with slower computers who need quick answers, or people like me who would like to look stuff up while at work.

Posts 693
Robert Peters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 7:11 AM

Logos offers both books and tools. Tools fall in the R&D category. If logos is going to still offer great tools as well as books money for the R&D is essential. These tools have to be developed by people tools don't just do not create themselves. It also takes time to develop these tools. Just looking at what they have provided thus far I have no problem with paying a small fee for R&D if its going to give me tools now. Maybe I can understand a little better because I come from a software background. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:06 AM

Good post Robert! Smile

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 274
Average Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:20 AM

The way I am understanding this, it seems like Logos Now basically offers Logos users a chance to test drive features and datasets from forthcoming editions of Logos (Logos 7 and beyond) without having to wait for the next release.

I can see the value of doing that, if there is some new feature that looks particularly useful.  There is mention of discounts for subscribers, too, which could be enticing.

My question would be, when Logos 7 is released and the base packages include a lot of these new features, will Logos Now subscribers maintain access to those features and datasets, or will those be transferred to being part of Logos 7 base packages only?  Because if it is the former, then someone could subscribe now and get access to all future features and datasets without ever having to upgrade or crossgrade ever again.  But if it is the latter, then subscribers would start to have features taken away from them.

Perhaps that is where the "discounts" come in.  Maybe loyal Logos Now subscribers will receive better than normal discounts on the upgrades and crossgrades come time for Logos 7.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:23 AM

Average Joe:
Maybe loyal Logos Now subscribers will receive better than normal discounts on the upgrades and crossgrades come time for Logos 7.

This is what I am hoping.

Lynden Williams Communications

Posts 3541
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 8:37 AM

Lynden Williams:

Average Joe:
Maybe loyal Logos Now subscribers will receive better than normal discounts on the upgrades and crossgrades come time for Logos 7.

This is what I am hoping.

Yes

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 12:20 PM

Robert Peters:

Logos offers both books and tools. Tools fall in the R&D category. If logos is going to still offer great tools as well as books money for the R&D is essential. These tools have to be developed by people tools don't just do not create themselves. It also takes time to develop these tools. Just looking at what they have provided thus far I have no problem with paying a small fee for R&D if its going to give me tools now. Maybe I can understand a little better because I come from a software background. 

I may be confused about your reasoning.  As far as I am aware, you (and me) are paying for R&D already. 

     -  The crossgrades in their various forms (core, feature, extended), i.e. tools, are not free.  When someone upgrades to Logos/Verbum 6 they pay for and receive those tools.  if you don't "upgrade" and want to have those tools there is a fee.  The free core engine doesn't have the tools.

     -  Books are not free (except a few) and you pay for those and that includes the cost of producing them.

To each of these is included a portion the "keeping the business profitable" component (whatever amount that is). 

Development of future tools is all baked into this.  Every commercial, for-profit software development company or portion of a commercial, for-profit business that does software development has this as part of the business plan/model.  There is way more detail than that however, suffice it to say that Faithlife is a commercial, for-profit business.

The definition of R&D is not equal to "give me tools now".   R&D is to provide a company the ability to explore the feasibility and viability of something you may be able to have tomorrow.

Pardon my rant ... 

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