Monthy Subscription Starts with "Logos Now"

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 1:34 PM

Some tools you pay for in crossgrades, but many are completely free. One such feature is the personal book builder tool, and now personal book sync. I think "send to kindle" is also free. "Logos Now" is a multi-facited subscription service. ONE of those benefits is new features now. Another is access to new visual copy templates. Yet another is excusive offers and discounts. A good way to look at it is like Amazon Prime. When I first subscribed (for free as a student), it was really just free two-day shipping, without needing a $25 order. I now spend $100 a year on the service. I would never do so simply for the shipping. I now watch shows, buy Black Friday gifts, get free kindle prime only deals. It is worth it to me. I think Faithlife envisions a similar service for its users. 

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EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 2:17 PM

I don't have any interest in it, and don't currently plan on subscribing. Logos has every right to try this model, though. It will be interesting to see how it works out. One thing that's not clear to me is whether this is a rental program (i.e., everything I've gained through it goes away once I drop it) or a subscription like a magazine (i.e., once I drop I don't get anything new, but do get to keep everything I've already received). It would make more sense to me if it's the latter, though I still don't know if I'd bite unless there were some assurance that they would be rolling out something each month in exchange for the subscription price.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 2:35 PM

EastTN:

I don't have any interest in it, and don't currently plan on subscribing. Logos has every right to try this model, though. It will be interesting to see how it works out. One thing that's not clear to me is whether this is a rental program (i.e., everything I've gained through it goes away once I drop it) or a subscription like a magazine (i.e., once I drop I don't get anything new, but do get to keep everything I've already received). It would make more sense to me if it's the latter, though I still don't know if I'd bite unless there were some assurance that they would be rolling out something each month in exchange for the subscription price.

1. It is a rental - you lose it when you drop it ... except for what you have purchased or is in the free engine.

2. The rollout period is 6 weeks not monthly although datasets and perks may be at any time.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 2:36 PM

EastTN:
One thing that's not clear to me is whether this is a rental program (i.e., everything I've gained through it goes away once I drop it) or a subscription like a magazine (i.e., once I drop I don't get anything new, but do get to keep everything I've already received).

It is the former not the latter. Rental not subscription.

I'd encourage those with questions like this to check out the now long thread in the Logos Now forum. It has a lot of information from Phil Gons and other Faithlife folks.

There is also a Logos Now info page on the Logos web site.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 3:43 PM

My understanding of the terms "rental" and "subscription" must be very different than y'all's. I subscribe to Netflix. It is a subscription based service. Once I stop "subscribing," I lose access to the service. 

I honestly don't know anywhere where the term "rental" is used the way y'all are using it... Although it is probably just semantics. You can RENT a textbook, you SUBSCRIBE to a service (I.e. kindle unlimited or audible). 

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 3:48 PM

Thanks for the links, Mark.  Very helpful in thinking through the various aspects of the subject.

It's a blessing when many are asking questions, many of which I would have never thought of by myself.  And the responses from Faithlife.

Very helpful.  Smile

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:00 PM

I think it is semantics, Alabama.  Mostly based on the difference between digital content and non-digital content.  That's the magazine subscription example provided above.  For example, I have some older copies of National Geographic on my bookshelf even though I do not have a subscription any longer.  I rented a movie from iTunes using my Apple TV and watched it a few weekends ago, but I don't have access to it longer.

You are correct when talking about digital content, rent versus subscribe, although there is probably some nuance to the whole thing.

 

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:29 PM

I'm a bit mixed on this program. The library should be the Logos Now. If I have to buy more print books because they aren't in Logos, my budget for subscription features isn't high. 

Not sure why I would want to pay twice for new features either.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:43 PM

mab:
The library should be the Logos Now. If I have to buy more print books because they aren't in Logos, my budget for subscription features isn't high. 

I understand your second statement (I think) but not the first one.

mab:
Not sure why I would want to pay twice for new features either.

Hopefully Faithlife will credit some of the rental fee toward eventual purchase of the features that make it into Logos 7. The rest (or all of the fee) is for having access to the features for perhaps 2 - 2-1/2 years before they are available otherwise.

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Robert Peters | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 9:13 PM

Steve:

I may be confused about your reasoning.  As far as I am aware, you (and me) are paying for R&D already. 

     -  The crossgrades in their various forms (core, feature, extended), i.e. tools, are not free.  When someone upgrades to Logos/Verbum 6 they pay for and receive those tools.  if you don't "upgrade" and want to have those tools there is a fee.  The free core engine doesn't have the tools.

     -  Books are not free (except a few) and you pay for those and that includes the cost of producing them.

To each of these is included a portion the "keeping the business profitable" component (whatever amount that is). 

Development of future tools is all baked into this.  Every commercial, for-profit software development company or portion of a commercial, for-profit business that does software development has this as part of the business plan/model.  There is way more detail than that however, suffice it to say that Faithlife is a commercial, for-profit business.

The definition of R&D is not equal to "give me tools now".   R&D is to provide a company the ability to explore the feasibility and viability of something you may be able to have tomorrow.

Pardon my rant ... 

Logos is offering what we want or at least trying to. People want tools, which cost money. People want more resources which cost money as well. we cannot have our cake and eat it too. Either one will have more or less then the other. Logos has to make a profit. For those who want tools and other unique features they get the Logos Now. Logos now is ensuring that Logos is able to to develop great tools in R&D. I think the future of base packages will be focused mainly on resources. Before the Logos Now, Logos has primarily been a resources based. Although there were tools there were not as much tools in comparison to resources. No business can be innovative and grow if they are lacking in R&D which tools fall into. This is one way which logos is seeking to balance things out and give everyone what they really want.    

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EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 2:03 AM

MJ. Smith:

1. It is a rental - you lose it when you drop it ... except for what you have purchased or is in the free engine.

2. The rollout period is 6 weeks not monthly although datasets and perks may be at any time.

Thank you, M.J.

It's #1 that limits its appeal for me. I'm probably not using half the current functionality of Logos 6, but might find new or expanded datasets useful. If the "Logos Now" program allowed me to purchase them over time, rather than in one big pop with a major update, that might be appealing. More to the point, I could justify it to my spouse. But I'm going to be talking to someone who knows what I've already spent - and continue to spend on books - and who is going to ask "so, you're going to spend another $100 or so, and at the end of the year you're going to have what exactly?" I can explain buying books (within reason), but this other is just not a conversation that I want to have.

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Average Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 6:29 AM

alabama24:

Some tools you pay for in crossgrades, but many are completely free. One such feature is the personal book builder tool, and now personal book sync. I think "send to kindle" is also free. "Logos Now" is a multi-facited subscription service. ONE of those benefits is new features now. Another is access to new visual copy templates. Yet another is excusive offers and discounts. A good way to look at it is like Amazon Prime. When I first subscribed (for free as a student), it was really just free two-day shipping, without needing a $25 order. I now spend $100 a year on the service. I would never do so simply for the shipping. I now watch shows, buy Black Friday gifts, get free kindle prime only deals. It is worth it to me. I think Faithlife envisions a similar service for its users. 

That's a helpful way to look at it.  I was the same with Amazon Prime. Smile  Started with the free trial but never would have kept it going until they started adding more and more perks to the program.  If that's what Faithlife is going for here, then I am very interested to see where things go.

I started through that other thread that Mark linked to, which helped clarify a lot, too.  I think I was initially distracted by the "rental' verbiage.  It makes more sense to me to think of it as a membership program.

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 7:47 AM

Robert Peters:

No business can be innovative and grow if they are lacking in R&D which tools fall into. This is one way which logos is seeking to balance things out and give everyone what they really want.    

Correct.  We are saying the same thing.  R&D (and salaries, health care, utilities, building, servers, "free" stuff, etc.) at Faithlife has been going on since the beginning.  We've been paying for it as some portion of all the products we have purchased and will continue to purchase (using whatever the internal calculation at Faithlife is).

Logos/Verbum Now is not an R&D effort unto itself.  It's a product/service paid for by users (us).  It's all good.  Smile

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GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 5:31 PM

Still seems to me that buying a product outright, up-front, even if it isn't honed to its fullest potential, would provide Logos with a bigger chunk of money and a known amount to further R&D than the fickle trickle of subscription.  I think users would be more satisfied as well.  

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 8:31 PM

Gao Lu:
Still seems to me that buying a product outright, up-front, even if it isn't honed to its fullest potential, would provide Logos with a bigger chunk of money and a known amount to further R&D than the fickle trickle of subscription.  I think users would be more satisfied as well.

You may be right. I believe in his long post about Logos Now Bob Pritchett said he thought a steady stream of sales pitches for new products would annoy more than anything. Besides, he is trying to create a revenue stream to allow greater development of tools and datasets.

We might think of Logos Now as a way to pre-pub new datasets and tools without knowing in advance what they will be. You pay in faith believing Faithlife will deliver some tools or datasets you'll benefit from. You don't have to pay all that much, and with enough folks doing so, the sheer number of new features they'd be able to produce with that revenue would likely produce at least few each of us will be glad to have.

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Diego Lara | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 9:27 PM

I signed up for the free trial and I really like the web version. Looks like not all the features are available yet but based on the options I saw as "coming soon" looks like it will be similar to what the desktop application is. I hope it gets to the point where we can have more than two windows open. This would be great for those who own a Chromebook.

I actually wish the desktop version's interface looked more like the web version. It looks cleaner and more modern looking.

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Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 10:26 PM

I have been letting this percolate for the last 48 hours, and then some.  I'm almost there but want some more time to let it "bake" completely in my thinking. 

One question (probably asked already), does Verbum Now have all the same features and benefits as Logos Now?

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 10:35 PM

Steve:
One question (probably asked already), does Verbum Now have all the same features and benefits as Logos Now?

Yes, Verbum 6.2 RC3 has the same Now features and benefits as Logos 6.2 RC 3.

Keep Smiling Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 10:48 PM

At this point in time, yes.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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