Bob, is there any point to invest in Logos?

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 1:59 PM

Wild Eagle:

David Taylor Jr:

It is only the beginning. It would be nice to get a response from Bob before. For the past few weeks I spent more then $500. I like the idea of cloud, but now since I invested so many k's I am at crossroad. It wasnt nice to stay quiet when I raised those questions without informing costumers with their direction. 

They have answered it multiple times and said they do not intend on moving away from the current offerings.

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Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 3:07 PM

deleted 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 3:12 PM

It depends upon your needs. You are given a choice between a public library (Logos Cloud) and a private library (Logos/Logos Now). If you need control over what is in your library and need notes to be permanently attached to a resource, you need a private library. If your needs are met by a changing, pre-selected set of resources, the public library should do just fine.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Sean Emslie | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 4:27 PM

Wild Eagle and others I think that the fact that Logos is introducing Logos Now and Logos Cloud at the same time has caused confusion (I admit that I was initially confused too).

Logos Now is a $8.99 subscription to get early access to new Logos features that will make their way into future releases of Logos desktop software.  I kind of see it being similar to Apple's Mac OS X and iOS Developer Subscriptions where for $99 per year you get pre-release software and updates, so you in essence pay to try out pre-released systems and other software for an annual fee.  Logos Now lets us get early access to new datasets and features for our Logos Desktop for only $8.99 per month.  

Logos Cloud is a new software as a service way to access Logos Software and Resources.  As stated by Logos Reps in other posts the  Logos Cloud service is a new product and designed for people that are happy to rent their software and books.   Also the books available in Logos Cloud will be mostly Lexham with a few other publishers with a lot of Public Domain books, in contrast to the dozens of publishers that offer books for sale in Logos Desktop.  Logos Cloud is a new option for people looking for Bible Software, much like you can subscribe to a streaming music service like Beats for $15 per month and rent the music while you have the subscription or pay $.99 per song and own the songs by buying them in iTunes.

I currently own about 3,000 books and am a subscriber to Logos Now which is a great way to add to the already best Bible program.  I also have over $6,000 in pre-pubs so I am committed to buying books too.

I am going to try out Logos Cloud to see how I like having a hybrid owned/rented library.  I did discover that you can access your paid books from Logos Cloud.  

So rather than seeing these 2 new Logos products as competition, join me in seeing Logos Now as a great way to add extra features to our already great Logos Desktop software and Logos Cloud as a great way for new customers to discover Logos and build up new revenue streams for Faithlife to keep innovating and bringing us new features and resources.  Also for people with Logos Desktop you could also add rented resources to your purchased books with Logos Cloud and have a mixed library of owned and rented book, an option for some people.


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Logos 6, Logos Now

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 4:50 PM

Sean Emslie:
I currently own about 3,000 books and am a subscriber to Logos Now which is a great way to add to the already best Bible program.  I also have over $6,000 in pre-pubs so I am committed to buying books too.

I am going to try out Logos Cloud to see how I like having a hybrid owned/rented library.  I did discover that you can access your paid books from Logos Cloud.  

Logos Cloud isn't for you and there were warnings about having both Logos Now and Logos Cloud at the same time.

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 499
SteveHD | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 5:21 PM

I said too much so feel free to skip this.

A bit confused but I will put forward my current concern. I got all excited about the new SDA offerings. Not so much for the SDA items as the inexpensive means to get the Lexham Bible Guides: Paul’s Letters Collection (13 vols.) and Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament Bundle (6 vols.). Since I already own a bit the package being about 90% off get me these for very great discount. But wait, they are Lexham. Will these be the kind of items that will end up on the annual plan. There are about 6 or 8 Bible Guides on community pricing going nowhere. Will they just get setup in the subscription service.

While I agree that licensing and what not on Hermeneia and Continental Commentaries and WBC will probably always prohibit them being on a subscription. What items really are likely to? I read these nice descriptions and replies but they so often include a very political sounding at this time or as it appears now. Sounding very much like a loophole for what the bigger 2 year out picture does include.

How about the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary (EEC) (44 vols.). This is not even close to done yet. This is Lexham so I think it is a great candidate for future rental or subscription. There is not way I would pay up front for a small portion just to find out in 6 months I could be paying 29a month and having the completed volumes included.

I think this short term picture without the full road map is why there are so many questions. I see the recent post about the MobileEd videos and their possible inclusion. In house product so why not. Very few can afford the and for some they might be viewed once.

I am leaving my SDA Gold choice so I can buy these because the discount may be making them less than rental would be but I still have to wonder.

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 8:30 PM

If I have the books that I bought, and can read and search them, Logos / Faithlife has kept their bargain with me.  It is all about the books.  I could care less about whatever frills Logos puts into Logos Now.  I have what I bought.  How can that be second class?

The software frills are not going to make one a better biblical scholar.  Nor is there any fluff stuff feature that will make one an instant Greek or Hebrew scholar.   The books will, if one studies them diligently and consistently.  Choose your books wisely and forget the fluff stuff.

Of course, this is the opinion of one grumpy old man.  I wouldn't pay too much attention to it, if I were you.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 9:21 PM

Michael Childs:
I have what I bought.  How can that be second class?

Michael, wait until all those nice weekly updates stop coming your way unless you are a subscriber. Or the new features that used to go into the software package stop going into anything but the subscriber side of things. Remember when Logos said they were going to stop supporting L3? It's not a big step to see them announce no more support for L4, 5, or 6 except for subscribers. They won't be taking anything away. But you'll still be a second class citizen.

I have no intention of ever subscribing to anything, having paid what I've paid for the software and resources, and I am well aware that my days are thus numbered.

Michael Childs:
The software frills are not going to make one a better biblical scholar.

I absolutely agree with you here. 110% (using old coach math). But that isn't really the point. Sticking with the sports analogy, joining a team before pay-to-play was even a thought, then having the team switch to pay-to-play in the middle of your career isn't a pleasant experience. Trust becomes an issue, as is obvious from those of us on irrational rants (or whatever David called us).

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 9:32 PM

David Taylor Jr:
There is zero indication that the desktop software is going away. If you don't like the Now, don't get it. Simple as that.  These rants and irrational outbursts

No one (that I've seen) said it is going away. But it isn't much of a step between an add-on subscription service and a pay-to-play format, where you no longer get any updates unless you are a subscriber.

You can call us names all you want, but ignoring symptoms never healed anyone with a disease. If sending money to Bellingham for the rest of your life is your ambition, you are fine...no disease present. But for some of us we thought that at some point, we'd be done spending money except for an occasional new resource. Like Mike T said in his post, I too have no interest in L-Now. But unlike some of you, I'm pretty sure that means the clock is ticking.

And unlike Wild Eagle, I stopped putting resources into Logos about a year ago, so I'm not as upside down as some are. But it is still a bit unnerving to see someone with strong arms pick up the corners of the rug on which one is standing. That is the source of his concern, and I don't see anything whatsoever irrational about it.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 1426
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 9:36 PM

Doc B:

Michael Childs:
I have what I bought.  How can that be second class?

Michael, wait until all those nice weekly updates stop coming your way unless you are a subscriber. Or the new features that used to go into the software package stop going into anything but the subscriber side of things. Remember when Logos said they were going to stop supporting L3? It's not a big step to see them announce no more support for L4, 5, or 6 except for subscribers. They won't be taking anything away. But you'll still be a second class citizen.

I have no intention of ever subscribing to anything, having paid what I've paid for the software and resources, and I am well aware that my days are thus numbered.

Doc B, you nailed down my concern. 

I am really afraid that all major future benefits will lean toward subscribers. 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 1426
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 10:03 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

In terms of apps—desktop vs. mobile vs. web—there's not really a difference between Logos 6 base packages and Logos Cloud, with the exception that the web app requires a Now or Cloud subscription. (Eventually, we think Logos Cloud subscribers will primarily access the tools and content through our new web app. Initially, though, they'll likely use the desktop software primarily, since the web app is just an early beta at this point.)

Logos Cloud will also include the membership benefits of Logos Now,

Here we go, my long waited web app, which I hoped to see in Biblia.com is going to rest with no future Logos tools. I won't have access to new web app because I am not subscriber. The software development goes toward web browsers and I cant enjoy those benefits. That's already the signs of second class user

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 1426
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 21 2015 10:37 PM

Here are direct words of Bob that everything moves toward web app

Bob Pritchett:

The Internet and mobile apps create an expectation of ongoing support. We used to make a product, sell it to you, and be done. Sure, there might be some bug fixes, but often they were delivered on-demand for specific users, or even held until a future (paid) upgrade. (1990's software model.) Now people expect frequent updates, immediate bug fixes, and that the mobile apps are updated constantly to support the latest screen size, OS feature, handsets, etc. Moreover, people expect syncing of their data to the cloud (when you get a new phone you don't plan to copy off and then restore your personal data -- you expect to sign in and have it there), web-based access to some/all capabilities, etc. Writing new code takes time and money; keeping servers up 24x7 for thousands of users is surprisingly non-trivial.

non subscribers wont use those benefits. To non subscribers there is no guarantee from Bob neither that he will support downloadable software in the future 

Bob Pritchett:

Mark:
Language such as "for the foreseeable future" is not comfort language.

Lord willing, we plan to be here, serving you, twenty-three years from now. So I try not to make 'forever' promises, because I have no idea if downloading software will even be possible, let alone desirable, in twenty-three years. You might be doing your Bible study during your commute in your fully-automated flying car, and it might only support cloud-based access. That's why I say 'foreseeable'. :-)

The future definitely goes toward cloud based access so to not subscribers there is a huge threat 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 2820
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 12:42 PM

Michael Childs:
How can that be second class?

Here is a concrete example of second-class citizenry in action, and a perfect illustration of the OP's fears not being irrational.

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/105468/729858.aspx#729858

Conveniently enough, it happened to ME.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 3022
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 12:49 PM

Doc B:

David Taylor Jr:
There is zero indication that the desktop software is going away. If you don't like the Now, don't get it. Simple as that.  These rants and irrational outbursts

No one (that I've seen) said it is going away. But it isn't much of a step between an add-on subscription service and a pay-to-play format, where you no longer get any updates unless you are a subscriber.

You can call us names all you want, but ignoring symptoms never healed anyone with a disease. If sending money to Bellingham for the rest of your life is your ambition, you are fine...no disease present. But for some of us we thought that at some point, we'd be done spending money except for an occasional new resource. Like Mike T said in his post, I too have no interest in L-Now. But unlike some of you, I'm pretty sure that means the clock is ticking.

And unlike Wild Eagle, I stopped putting resources into Logos about a year ago, so I'm not as upside down as some are. But it is still a bit unnerving to see someone with strong arms pick up the corners of the rug on which one is standing. That is the source of his concern, and I don't see anything whatsoever irrational about it.

I don't recall calling you or anyone else a name. Please don't falsely accuse.

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Sean Emslie | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 12:52 PM

Doc,

Logos Now is a way to in essence get access to Logos 7 features early.  Rather than waiting 2 years for Logos 7 and paying a lot more than $8.99 per month for the new features you can get early access now.  
Your second class status is therefore self imposed.
If you don't want the features of Logos Now at this time then you can wait for another year or two for Logos 7.  I want the features now so I subscribed to Logos Now.

MA in Christian Studies - Emphasis in Pastoral Ministry, Grand Canyon University

Logos 6, Logos Now

Posts 2820
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 12:55 PM

Sean Emslie:
Your second class status is therefore self imposed.

Now there's some postmodern "logic" for ya.

But you continue to prove the OP's original point.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 3022
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 12:55 PM

Sean Emslie:

Doc,

Logos Now is a way to in essence get access to Logos 7 features early.  Rather than waiting 2 years for Logos 7 and paying a lot more than $8.99 per month for the new features you can get early access now.  
Your second class status is therefore self imposed.
If you don't want the features of Logos Now at this time then you can wait for another year or two for Logos 7.  I want the features now so I subscribed to Logos Now.

Agreed

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 12:56 PM

Doc B:

Sean Emslie:
Your second class status is therefore self imposed.

Now there's some postmodern "logic" for ya.

But you continue to prove the OP's original point.

To become a 2nd class citizen you would have to be refused something available to everyone else, or treated differently than everyone else. Neither is the case.

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 12:57 PM

David Taylor Jr:
I don't recall calling you or anyone else a name.

"Irrational" is a name. Probably most appropriate for cats.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 3022
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 12:59 PM

Doc B:

David Taylor Jr:
I don't recall calling you or anyone else a name.

"Irrational" is a name. Probably most appropriate for cats.

Yes, now put the word in context and you will see I did not call anyone a name.

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