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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 3:45 PM

Mark Barnes:

Tim Bray:
Ahh there you go...don't have the section...have to find out where to get it :-)

https://www.logos.com/now and https://www.logos.com/features#LogosNow 

Note the section Mark pointed to is in the current beta of Logos (6.3) and not in the presently shipping version (6.2). If you have Logos Now, you can switch to the beta channel, install the software, and use the new section — but do realize that it is beta software and you may have some issues along the way.

[Edit/Addition]

You do have the Greek Grammatical Constructions in 6.2 if you are a Logos Now subscriber. Go to a search window (Bible Search is good) and enter: {Section <GramCon 1C>}. This will locate First-Class Conditionals in supported Bibles.

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 76
Tim Bray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 4:01 PM

Thanks Mark, but already have Logos Now

 

Posts 76
Tim Bray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 4:18 PM

Thanks Mark, Now have beta and have updated the software but no section available, tried to add sections to the EG via the edit button bot cant see it

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 4:23 PM

It is a subsection of the Grammar section - lower part if I recall correctly.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 13418
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 4:29 PM

MJ. Smith:

It is a subsection of the Grammar section - lower part if I recall correctly.

You do recall correctly.

Posts 76
Tim Bray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 4:48 PM

The only thing I can think of is that my EG doesn't have the sort by subject option

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 4:56 PM

One has to restart the app to discover the dataset that is behind the new grammar section.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 76
Tim Bray | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 5:22 PM

Thanks...did the trick

 

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 6:31 PM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

The list of annotated Granville Sharp constructions is taken from Dan Wallace's article "Sharp Redevivus?", available online here: https://bible.org/article/sharp-redivivus-reexamination-granville-sharp-rule . You can see the list on pp. 27–31 in the word doc version ("additional media") of that paper.

Isn't that just adopting some other person's work wholesale? Is he credited?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 7:06 PM

Lee:

Isn't that just adopting some other person's work wholesale?

No, standard practice is that if one can find a piece of information in three to five independent sources it is "common knowledge". At that point giving references is to point the reader to additional information rather than to provide obligatory documentation for quoted material.

Lee:

Is he credited?

Yes ...

Granville Sharp’s First Rule

A grammatical construction consisting of an article with a substantive, the conjunction και, and an anarthrous substantive agreeing in case and number with the previous. Sharp surmised that the lack of an article in the second substantive indicated both substantives were in relation to the same entity instead of separate entities.

Example: Mark 6:3

ὁ υἱὸς τῆς Μαρίας καὶ ἀδελφὸς Ἰακώβου

The son of Mary and brother of James

More Information

• This can be searched for with {Section <GramCon GSharp>} in the Bible Search (Basic Search can also be used).

• The two substantives can be the same class (noun και noun) or mixed classes (participle και adjective).

• Daniel Wallace provides a detailed discussion of this construction in Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics

• Wallace also dedicates an entire essay to the Granville Sharp Construction titled Sharp Redivivus?—A Reexamination of the Granville Sharp Rule

• Stanley E. Porter also provides a discussion of this construction in Idioms of the Greek New Testament

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1391
LogosEmployee
Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 9:49 PM

Hi Lee.

Lee:

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

The list of annotated Granville Sharp constructions is taken from Dan Wallace's article "Sharp Redevivus?", available online here: https://bible.org/article/sharp-redivivus-reexamination-granville-sharp-rule . You can see the list on pp. 27–31 in the word doc version ("additional media") of that paper.

Isn't that just adopting some other person's work wholesale? Is he credited?

As MJ noted, the article is fully cited and we link to it, as well as cite other descriptions and discussions of the issue. Wallace really is the authority on what is and what is not an instance of Granville Sharp's first rule in the NT.

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 17 2015 10:20 PM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

Hi Lee.

Lee:

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

The list of annotated Granville Sharp constructions is taken from Dan Wallace's article "Sharp Redevivus?", available online here: https://bible.org/article/sharp-redivivus-reexamination-granville-sharp-rule . You can see the list on pp. 27–31 in the word doc version ("additional media") of that paper.

Isn't that just adopting some other person's work wholesale? Is he credited?

As MJ noted, the article is fully cited and we link to it, as well as cite other descriptions and discussions of the issue. Wallace really is the authority on what is and what is not an instance of Granville Sharp's first rule in the NT.

Thanks for the clarification. Of course probably no-one knows about TSKS constructions more than Wallace. There are a couple of disputed cases, so not everyone's list will be identical. I was concerned that if Logos chooses to adopt Wallace's list, the source should be properly attributed in the documentation.

As things stand, a user such as MJ might reasonably assume that the instances where the G-S rule applies is "common knowledge" and that Wallace is merely being cited for "additional information".

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 21 2015 3:12 PM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
It appears that because these two instances were excerpted from the generic list and discussed separately, they were not annotated along the way. We'll review and add the instances to the dataset.

I've verified that we've added the annotations internally. An update should be included when the next batch of resource updates are delivered.

I believe there will be a resource update today (April 21, 2015) that will include a new version of the dataset with the Granville Sharp instances updated.

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

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