[resolved] Setting a Series

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Jason De Vries | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2015 9:38 PM

Trying to figure out how to set a series in Logos 6.  Namely, I'd like to set things up so that when I'm switching from OT to NT, BHS will automatically switch over to NA28 so that I won't need to switch between windows. How would I do this?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 14 2015 10:03 PM

Create a collection and set parallel resources

https://wiki.logos.com/Parallel_Resources

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 12:30 AM

Jason De Vries:

Trying to figure out how to set a series in Logos 6.  Namely, I'd like to set things up so that when I'm switching from OT to NT, BHS will automatically switch over to NA28 so that I won't need to switch between windows. How would I do this?

I would use the "Set Series" option in the Library

Select both resources and create a series in the Information Pane

More details at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/72233.aspx?PageIndex=1 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 3:20 AM

Just illustrating Graham's post. OL Bible means Original Language Bible

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MJ. Smith:
Create a collection and set parallel resources

This won't work.

Parallel resources are designed for multiple resources that contain the same references, e.g., multiple commentaries on the book of Matthew.

A custom series is intended to solve the OP's problem, and should be used for resources that (as a group) cover a reference range; e.g., make a series out of a commentary on Matthew, a commentary on Mark, a commentary on Luke, etc.

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Jason De Vries | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 8:07 AM

This has been helpful.  Solved my problem perfectly and learned a few things in the process.  Thanks everyone!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 1:32 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Parallel resources are designed for multiple resources that contain the same references, e.g., multiple commentaries on the book of Matthew.

A custom series is intended to solve the OP's problem, and should be used for resources that (as a group) cover a reference range; e.g., make a series out of a commentary on Matthew, a commentary on Mark, a commentary on Luke, etc.

So you are saying that the series field in the library metadata by design has two meanings which may or may not cooincide:

  • serial association
  • book series

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 2:08 AM

MJ. Smith:

So you are saying that the series field in the library metadata by design has two meanings which may or may not cooincide:

  • serial association
  • book series

A 'book series' may imply a serial association e.g. bible commentaries, or it might just be a book collection  e.g. Ancient Egyptian Literature, Classic Pastoral Care, Creation Series, George Muller Collection!

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 3:43 AM

Jason De Vries:

This has been helpful.  Solved my problem perfectly and learned a few things in the process.  Thanks everyone!

BTW, another great "series" you may want to set is to put your favorite Greek and Hebrew Lexicon in the same series. I have BDAG and BDB in the same series, for example.

Then, if you use the option to "Send hyperlinks here" on your Bible and Lexicon, links from other resources, or double clicking a word to look it up, will switch between them seamlessly.

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MJ. Smith:

So you are saying that the series field in the library metadata by design has two meanings which may or may not cooincide:

  • serial association
  • book series

The only thing the application uses the "Series" metadata field for is serial association.

I consider the use of this field for "book series" to be a metadata error, but I have not been successful in convincing everyone (anyone?) else. Smile

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Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 8:54 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

The only thing the application uses the "Series" metadata field for is serial association.

I consider the use of this field for "book series" to be a metadata error, but I have not been successful in convincing everyone (anyone?) else. Smile

Perhaps all people need to know in order to be convinced is that there are performance implications when using "series".

In order to power the feature that provides the reference box the ability to jump to the right resource in your series when you enter a passage not in the current book, we must open every resource in your series anytime you open a single one! This is likely not a big deal with small series and fast hard drives but one could quickly create a serious problem if you were opening a layout with several resources each a part of a separate, large series.

TL;DR - Overuse/misuse of "series" can lead to poor application performance.

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IMO, an arbitrary collection of books (that don't form a serial association), e.g., "101 Questions and Answers Series" (https://www.logos.com/product/42395/101-questions-and-answers-series) is better managed with a collection, rather than "Series" metadata.

As Alan said, overusing "Series" may slow down your system.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 10:32 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

I consider the use of this field for "book series" to be a metadata error, but I have not been successful in convincing everyone (anyone?) else. Smile

From the end-users perspective, it is very nice to have the Series like the 101 questions series you mentioned marked as such in the Metadata that ships with the product. This makes exploring your Library much easier and faster. That is too bad about it opening up all of them together. I wonder how that could be fixed, so we could have the best of both worlds... maybe having two rows, one for "series name", and the other for "series functionality" (obviously with better names).

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 10:35 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
I consider the use of this field for "book series" to be a metadata error

Are you saying that the fact that a "Series" value is set for groups of resources which don't logically give you any serial association functionality is something that Faithlife's content team is responsible for and, in your opinion, they should not do? And that in so doing they may be inadvertently impacting application performance (per Alan)? I'm thinking of new resource groups / bundles / "series" which have "Series" pre-populated when they are originally downloaded.

If so, I think there are a couple of things that should follow:

a) You need to try harder to convince the right people. ;)

b) Users should delete any "Series" settings for groups of resources which wouldn't yield logical serial association functionality.

Donnie

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 2:00 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

IMO, an arbitrary collection of books (that don't form a serial association), e.g., "101 Questions and Answers Series" (https://www.logos.com/product/42395/101-questions-and-answers-series) is better managed with a collection, rather than "Series" metadata.

As Alan said, overusing "Series" may slow down your system.

Having too many collections also slows down Logos especially in the already slow initial build of drop down menus. This is a classic case of using a single field to mean 2 different things.

  • series in the sense that a publisher uses it need to be library metadata so that one can use it as a filter/temporary collection/sort field/even to find missing volumes for purchase
  • series association as Faithlife uses if for systems purposes is a different piece of information controlling program behavior.

Eli Evans is your google-thingy working to pick up this post? It is reasonable that when a user sees a field in the library panel that is titled "series" they would expect it to hold the publication information in library catalogues that is titled "series". Users need both series associations and named series - as separate functions/elements.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 2:03 PM

Donnie Hale:

If so, I think there are a couple of things that should follow:

a) You need to try harder to convince the right people. ;)

b) Users should delete any "Series" settings for groups of resources which wouldn't yield logical serial association functionality.

Donnie, I strongly disagree as you are implying that I should give up much of my sort and temporary collection functions to change what slows my system from too many series to too many collections. The solution is that Faithlife should correct the underlying data problem by giving serial association its own field (or other designation mechanism) and let the library metadata be what the user expects - library metadata paralleling a library catalogue.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 2:29 PM

Yep, I'm listening in. And arguing discussing with Bradley at the same time. Smile

It's definitely a classic case of throwing one rock at two birds. It's also a case of some really old code (that makes some out of date assumptions about what "Series" metadata is used for) that performed much better when it was first written, but now ... not so much.

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 2:30 PM

MJ. Smith:
Eli Evans is your google-thingy working to pick up this post?

No, Google alerts isn't working as well as I had hoped. I might get alerted to this thread sometime next week. Hmm

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 2:49 PM

Eli - there are some related library issue to consider when something is really going to happen:

  • There are a number of resources that are single books in print but have been split into multiple resources for language/type reasons. It would be useful to have metadata show the user that the parts are related. (You should have seen the mess trying to get it sorted out when one part wasn't released).
  • While it is primarily a Catholic problem (church documents in Latin/English/Spanish) or the Lutheran Triglotta (Latin/German/English) there is a large and growing number of cases where one wishes to toggle between various versions of the same resource. It is tedious setting these up as parallel resource collections - not to mention the hit on performance. It would be nice to have a translation relationship that ran off the metadata.
  • Either I misunderstand the purpose of equivalent resources or the metadata is likely not up to date.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 16 2015 3:02 PM

MJ. Smith:

  • There are a number of resources that are single books in print but have been split into multiple resources for language/type reasons. It would be useful to have metadata show the user that the parts are related. (You should have seen the mess trying to get it sorted out when one part wasn't released).
  • While it is primarily a Catholic problem (church documents in Latin/English/Spanish) or the Lutheran Triglotta (Latin/German/English) there is a large and growing number of cases where one wishes to toggle between various versions of the same resource. It is tedious setting these up as parallel resource collections - not to mention the hit on performance. It would be nice to have a translation relationship that ran off the metadata.

Can't disagree.

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