[resolved] BUG: MIA view in Grammar section --- ODDER than that and likely indexer related

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Apr 15 2015 3:34 PM

EDIT: I resolved the problem by restarting Logos. Apparently there is a resource that needs to be indexed for the new format? If so, even the refresh section that I tried did not recognize that the new format should be used. It required a restart.

The following features mentioned in the beta release notes appear to be MIA and no, there is no saved guide and yes, I checked the version running.

  • In “By Subject” view, grammars are grouped by Type. In “By Resource” view, grammars are organized by language. These groups can be expanded/collapsed.
  • There is a new “Grammatical Constructions” subsection backed by the Greek Grammatical Constructions dataset:
  • This subsection provides cross references to the Guide key, sorted by grammatical construction type.

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Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 3:37 PM

MJ, it looks like you don't have the new Grammars section.

I'll double check that the resources were unlocked properly, but in the meantime could you run an "update resources" and see if you have yet to download them?

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Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 3:44 PM

MJ. Smith:
EDIT: I resolved the problem by restarting Logos. Apparently there is a resource that needs to be indexed for the new format? If so, even the refresh section that I tried did not recognize that the new format should be used. It required a restart.

Aha, thank you for the edit. There was a discussion this morning on the fact that updating the Guide section can't happen without an application restart. So yes, once you update and get the database resource (which is required for the updated section) it requires an additional restart to show the new section.

I'll add that information to the release notes. Sorry for the confusion!

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 3:46 PM

MJ. Smith:
I resolved the problem by restarting Logos. Apparently there is a resource that needs to be indexed for the new format? If so, even the refresh section that I tried did not recognize that the new format should be used. It required a restart.

Yes, a restart *after* the grammar resource has been discovered is the key. I ran into this issue too. The team is looking at how/if that can be resolved.

Other than that, do you have the new section? (Yes, I'm working on documenation ... :) )

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 3:51 PM

I definitely like being able to view by subject ... beyond that I've just started exploring it.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 3:55 PM

Just remember the last line of the release notes (https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_6.3_Beta_1):

The results are not ordered in any meaningful way.

Should the categories themselves just be alphabetically sorted?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 4:13 PM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

Should the categories themselves just be alphabetically sorted?

No, the logical order in which you present them is preferable and discourages the newbie from putting the cart before the horse.

However, I do have one "big" suggestion. Since Robertson, A. T. A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research. has blurred the line between rhetoric and grammar, I think it would be both appropriate and very useful to treat Bullinger, Ethelbert William. Figures of Speech Used in the Bible. as a grammar under style.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 4:22 PM

The only problems I find in the new format are:

  • the Settings option appears to do nothing
  • in Grammatical Constructions when an entry has no highlighting, the user may be confused. At the very least the documentation should explain why this condition can arise
  • I assume the omission of Vine, W. E. Vine’s You Can Learn New Testament Greek!: Course of Self-Help for the Layman. was either intentional or a case of incomplete tagging.

So far I think the is a major enhancement to the section without any loss.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 4:26 PM

MJ. Smith:

No, the logical order in which you present them is preferable and discourages the newbie from putting the cart before the horse.

Excellent. Thanks.

MJ. Smith:
However, I do have one "big" suggestion. Since Robertson, A. T. A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research. has blurred the line between rhetoric and grammar, I think it would be both appropriate and very useful to treat Bullinger, Ethelbert William. Figures of Speech Used in the Bible. as a grammar under style.

I think there's a difference between blurring a line and obliterating it. That said, I think the better use of Bullinger's Figures of Speech work would be a separate analysis with related interactive.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 4:30 PM

MJ. Smith:
the Settings option appears to do nothing

The guide section apparently needs to refresh to regenerate the settings (press F5 after changing collections). I'll file a report that the section should refresh after settings change.

MJ. Smith:
in Grammatical Constructions when an entry has no highlighting, the user may be confused. At the very least the documentation should explain why this condition can arise

So in the two examples you point to, the 'I' is highlighted. Just not easy to see.

MJ. Smith:
I assume the omission of Vine, W. E. Vine’s You Can Learn New Testament Greek!: Course of Self-Help for the Layman. was either intentional or a case of incomplete tagging.

Generally, we're including all resources classed as grammars (so, resources that would've shown up in the older Grammar section before) that also have Bible references. I'll dig to see if that particular resource is included in that set and if not to determine why (or if it should be included).

Thanks!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 4:36 PM

For those of you not beta testing how is this for cool?

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 4:42 PM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

MJ. Smith:
I assume the omission of Vine, W. E. Vine’s You Can Learn New Testament Greek!: Course of Self-Help for the Layman. was either intentional or a case of incomplete tagging.

Generally, we're including all resources classed as grammars (so, resources that would've shown up in the older Grammar section before) that also have Bible references. I'll dig to see if that particular resource is included in that set and if not to determine why (or if it should be included).

So, Vine's book has never been classed as a grammar. It probably should be; there are similar first-year grammars that have that metadata. I'll see about regenerating the resource to include it and any other grammar that might've been published in the last few weeks.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 4:49 PM

Strange - this is the result of clicking the Search All Grammars link:

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 5:01 PM

MJ. Smith:
Strange - this is the result of clicking the Search All Grammars link:

Probably because I just updated the metadata on the server.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 5:03 PM

No - because that it how I'd found the discrepancy in the first place - I have a screen shot with it at 3:52 pm.

And the current production version show its:

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 21 2015 4:12 PM

MJ. Smith:

No - because that it how I'd found the discrepancy in the first place - I have a screen shot with it at 3:52 pm.

And the current production version show its:

The resource that contains the information used by the new Grammars section resource classification has been updated and should be included in the April 21, 2015 resource update.

Your issue with Vines is addressed. We also included a few more grammars that had not been included to this point (an older edition of Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, and I honestly forget the other).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 21 2015 4:20 PM

Martha

Is this fixed?

Dave
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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 21 2015 4:25 PM

Dave Hooton:

Martha

Is this fixed?

The resources might not have been uploaded yet (~4:25 PM at Logos offices) but should be soon. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 21 2015 6:13 PM

No change yet ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 22 2015 11:01 AM

MJ. Smith:

No change yet ...

These should now be available (along with several other resources).

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