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Posts 237
Rick Ratzlaff | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, May 5 2015 7:21 AM

Because fulfilled and future prophecy is massive evidence of the credibility of scripture. I'd sure like to see an icon showing fulfilled prophecy and it's locations in scripture.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 1:19 PM

This has been suggested before where it has been pointed out that there is little consensus on the list of prophecies and their fulfillments. Is there a particular source you would like used as the basis of the list?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 237
Rick Ratzlaff | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 6 2015 8:01 AM

There are clearly some passages that everybody has to agree to, on both the prophecy and fulfillment. That shouldn't be hard.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 6 2015 8:33 AM

Rick Ratzlaff:

There are clearly some passages that everybody has to agree to, on both the prophecy and fulfillment. That shouldn't be hard.

If Faithlife were to do this I would like to understand the basis on which it is done. Like MJ, I would be interested in the source reference documents.

Posts 237
Rick Ratzlaff | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 6 2015 8:49 AM

I don't understand what's the matter with the Bible. Sometimes it clearly says "it was do scripture should be fulfilled".

If there is disagreement, then either make a footnote as to source, and make it editable.

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Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 6 2015 9:48 AM

Labels would be good for doing this without Faithlife's involvement. You could create a group, share the document and only allow people to edit who agree to certain standards.

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Jesse Blevins | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 6 2015 9:56 AM

This could possibly be done with regard to the gospels.

I have seen several study bibles (NJKV study bible; Treasury of Scripture Knowledge has some things like this marked and several other study bibles) that have charts concerning prophecy that was fulfilled in the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Christ.

I would have to think that there must be some consensus around some prophecy concerning the life of Christ. 

Just a thought : ) 

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 6 2015 10:06 AM

Justin Gatlin:

Labels would be good for doing this without Faithlife's involvement. You could create a group, share the document and only allow people to edit who agree to certain standards.

Most of this is akin to vaticinium ex eventu.  Something is said and later someone concludes that this was prophecy and refers to a particular event.  On the other hand, vaticinium ex eventu is the "prophecy" of something which has already occurred.

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יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 6 2015 10:26 AM

George Somsel will have something to share about this.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 237
Rick Ratzlaff | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 8 2015 7:05 AM

Here's a small example "

54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?" 55 At that hour Jesus said to the crowds, "Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day mI sat in the temple nteaching, and you did not seize me. 56 But lall this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled." oThen all the disciples left him and fled.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 8 2015 7:18 AM

Rick Ratzlaff:
Here's a small example "

Interesting example as it while there is clearly some prophetic fulfilment taking place here its not obvious which prophecy is in view

NICNT has this comment

Blomberg sees it is a general reference within the wider context of Isaiah 53.

No one text is in view here but the “prophets” in general (as in 2:23). Probably the sense is that all of the events leading to Jesus’ arrest worked together toward the scripturally prophesied theme that God’s servant must suffer (as paradigmatically in Isa 52:13–53:12)

Craig Blomberg, Matthew (vol. 22; The New American Commentary; Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1992), 400.

while Nolland doesn't seem to try and link it to a specific prophecy at all:

26:56 For this second fulfilment statement in the unit Matthew expands on the existing Markan language: He displaces Mark’s opening ἀλλʼ (‘but’) with τοῦτο δὲ ὅλον γέγονεν (‘all this happened’). The change produces a neat repetition of ‘all this happened so that … might be fulfilled’ from 1:22, which introduces the first of the formula quotations (see at 1:22). All the formula citations speak of ‘the prophet’ or ‘the prophets’, so Matthew adds ‘of the prophets’ to Mark’s ‘the Scriptures’ to extend the echo. How far does ‘all this’ reach? We cannot be sure, but the two things that have threatened the reaching of the present point are Jesus’ own questioning in Gethsemane and the disciples’ short-lived bid to free Jesus from custody. At least the overcoming of these ‘threats’ will be included. It is not clear whether this fulfilment statement should be treated as continuing words of Jesus or as editorial comment. The way in which the formula for the fulfilment citations is being echoed favours the latter.

Nolland John, “Preface,” in The Gospel of Matthew: A Commentary on the Greek Text (New International Greek Testament Commentary; Grand Rapids, MI; Carlisle: W.B. Eerdmans; Paternoster Press, 2005), 1115.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 8 2015 7:23 AM

I can see the value in Rick's suggestion. And the difficulty.  In Rick's example, I would class that as apocalyptic completion; not a specific prophesy. But most would likely see it otherwise.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 237
Rick Ratzlaff | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 8 2015 7:41 AM

I don't intend to offend anyone, and am sorry if I do.

Matt 26:35 Peter said to him, "Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!" And all the disciples said the same. " bunch of rubber ducks.

I'm so glad Christ collected a bunch of "losers" and filled them to turn the world upside down. My point is that scripture is a lot simpler than academia often makes it out to be. 

I think there is a lot of us simple folk using Logos, and to get hung up with perceived opinionated nuances and prevent a simple tool from production is .....

Logos is all about study, so I'm sure some bright academic wiz kid should be able to design something to provide some help here. Crying

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 8 2015 9:15 AM

Rick Ratzlaff:

I don't intend to offend anyone, and am sorry if I do.

Matt 26:35 Peter said to him, "Even if I must die with you, I will not deny you!" And all the disciples said the same. " bunch of rubber ducks.

I'm so glad Christ collected a bunch of "losers" and filled them to turn the world upside down. My point is that scripture is a lot simpler than academia often makes it out to be. 

I think there is a lot of us simple folk using Logos, and to get hung up with perceived opinionated nuances and prevent a simple tool from production is .....

Logos is all about study, so I'm sure some bright academic wiz kid should be able to design something to provide some help here. Crying

Why has it got to be a "bright academic wiz kid?"  Why not just a Spirit-filled, dumb, "rubber duck", "loser?"

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 8 2015 9:22 AM

Why don't you just suggest that Logos read the text for you?  Oh, that's right, THEY ALREADY DO THAT.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 8 2015 10:19 AM

Rick Ratzlaff:
I'd sure like to see an icon showing fulfilled prophecy and it's locations in scripture.

You can already do it with a Visual Filter - see below. I don't find it very satisfactory, as it is debatable in many instances, but you can do it as the text is already tagged. I have to confess to having switched off this filter, as I found myself disagreeing with the tagging at times. 

Edit: The original image didn't upload properly last time around. Here's how it looks in the Bible text (although you can, of course, change the appearance). 


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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2015 8:33 AM

I would like to see this implemented, mainly because I would like to have a deliberate, intentional measure of prophecy just to have as a baseline comparison demonstrating how limited and diminished the general view of prophecy is.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2015 9:02 AM

I'd give you pretty decent odds, you'd find more unfulfilled predictions than fulfilled; both testaments.  And given Deu's test for men of God, it's a slippery slope.  

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 237
Rick Ratzlaff | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2015 9:06 AM

Right On Super Tramp - point taken

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2015 9:09 AM

SuperTramp:

Why has it got to be a "bright academic wiz kid?"  Why not just a Spirit-filled, dumb, "rubber duck", "loser?"

How about "Duck Commander"?  Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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