Community Pricing and Pre-Pub

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Posts 64
Joshua Daniel Simmons | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, May 9 2015 11:34 AM

What really doesn't make sense is how any Reformed products could languish in Community Pricing or Pre-Pub.  It honestly makes no sense.  Especially given the weight of the titles awaiting to see digital inclusion into a Scholar's library.  Call it cliche or stereotypical but the Reformed community is the ONE community I expect on Logos to be consistently pumping out resources due to the very nature of our community being so engrossed in deep and thoughtful study.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2015 11:59 AM

Joshua Daniel Simmons:
Call it cliche or stereotypical but the Reformed community is the ONE community I expect on Logos to be consistently pumping out resources due to the very nature of our community being so engrossed in deep and thoughtful study.

?  Maybe there are too many of the non-Reformed persuasion. (You know, the type who don't do deep or thoughtful thinking.)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 3023
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 9 2015 1:56 PM

Joshua Daniel Simmons:
What really doesn't make sense is how any Reformed products could languish in Community Pricing or Pre-Pub. It honestly makes no sense.  Especially given the weight of the titles awaiting to see digital inclusion into a Scholar's library.

In your estimation, what are the ten weightiest Reformed products presently languishing in CP or PrePub?

Posts 615
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 11 2015 6:40 AM

Like Joshua, I'm frustrated by the lack of progress of many of the Reformed CPs.

I did a post in Feb 2014 about works by Westminster Divines and Scottish Reformers that were struggling - only one which has progressed to a pre-pub since, and only because it came with one of the Reformed base packages.

To that list I would add the following Reformed CPs that are struggling:
- Select Works of James Durham
- The Works of John Brown of Haddington
- A Series of Tracts on the Doctrines, Order, and Polity of the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America
- Select Works of George Gillespie
- Classic Works on the Westminster Shorter Catechism

You could also add 'Select Works on the Westminster Assembly', but given that many of the works are attacks on the Westminster Divines and the fact that it's missing the most important contemporary commentary on the Confession of Faith, it's not that surprising that it hasn't made much progress.

If I had to pick one of them that I would like to see Faithlife push into production it would be The Presbyterian's Armoury - which has content from George Gillespie, Samuel Rutherford, James Durham, John Brown of Wamphray and David Calderwood. I would pay a lot to get those works individually, never mind combined in one package.

At the same time, it's hard to blame Faithlife if the interest isn't there. Maybe they could be doing more to try and drum up some interest however - eg some more emails would be helpful (I am signed up to quite a lot, but don't remember being sent emails about any of these) and promotion on the main blog? It would be quite easy to find quotes from modern authors about the importance of these works today (eg as I have done recently here).

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 11 2015 6:59 AM

Super.Tramp:
Maybe there are too many of the non-Reformed persuasion.

If you look at the sales of base packages, you'll see that Reformed base packages outsell all other 'denominational' packages. The top 10 of denominational packages is:

  1. Pentecostal & Charismatic Silver
  2. Reformed Gold
  3. Reformed Starter
  4. Baptist Gold
  5. Reformed Bronze
  6. Verbum Basic
  7. SDA Silver
  8. Reformed Platinum
  9. Baptist Starter
  10. Verbum Foundation

I would suspect the reasons why reformed products are languishing in pre-pub or CP are:

  1. We've all blown our budgets on Reformed base packages!
  2. Lots of the Reformed CP titles are huge, and require an enormous number of bids.
  3. Lots of the Reformed titles are already available in other products (e.g. Purtian Hard Drive), which although inferior, are at least usable.
  4. There's a lot being marketed to us at the moment (178 prepubs, 53 CP), and our dollars are being spread out too thinly.
Posts 64
Joshua Daniel Simmons | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 12 2015 10:30 PM

@Super.Tramp

Let me start by saying that my comment about being "engrossed in deep and thoughtful study" was in no way aimed at any other denomination, historical tradition or group other than the Reformed community, especially seeing as how the thread was created within the Reformed forum.  I meant no offense or disrespect and apologize if it came off that way.  Moreover, I apologize for the poorly selected words.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 12 2015 11:04 PM

Mark Barnes:

If you look at the sales of base packages, you'll see that Reformed base packages outsell all other 'denominational' packages. The top 10 of denominational packages is:

  1. Pentecostal & Charismatic Silver
  2. Reformed Gold
  3. Reformed Starter
  4. Baptist Gold
  5. Reformed Bronze
  6. Verbum Basic
  7. SDA Silver
  8. Reformed Platinum
  9. Baptist Starter
  10. Verbum Foundation

Interesting and not quite what I would have predicted (the Pentecostal & Charismatic surprises me). But I can't help wondering what I'm seeing.

  1. What is the source of the data?
  2. What is the time period of the data?
  3. Where do the "standard" packages fit in the list?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 12:17 AM

MJ. Smith:

Interesting and not quite what I would have predicted (the Pentecostal & Charismatic surprises me). But I can't help wondering what I'm seeing.

  1. What is the source of the data?
  2. What is the time period of the data?
  3. Where do the "standard" packages fit in the list?

I used the "Bestselling" sort option in the store to generate the results. From something Phil once said, I think it just sorts in terms of units sold at any time, so older packages would have an advantage over younger ones. In this case, however, all the L6 packages were launched at the same time.

With regard to the standard packages, their order is:

  1. Gold
  2. Starter
  3. Platinum
  4. Bronze
  5. Silver
  6. Feature Crossgrade
  7. Extended Crossgrade
  8. Diamond
  9. Portfolio
  10. Core Crossgrade
  11. {Denomination list 1-3}
  12. Collectors
  13. {Denomination list 4-10}
  14. Biblical languages

I'm not entirely surprised by Pentecostal and Charismatic being top. I think there are two main reasons for that.

  • First, that stream only goes up to Silver, so whilst Reformed Buyers sales were split over seven packages, P&C customers were only split over three. You'd expect higher sales per product in that scenario.
  • Second, P&C Silver contains a couple of moderately expensive sets of general interest to evangelicals that aren't available in standard base pacakges (IVPNT $290, only in Platinum and above; Life Application $200 not in any other base package; David Guzik $185 not in any other package; Tozer Collection $400 not in any other package). I would imagine the dynamic price on P&C Silver for a Gold owner would be quite attractive if they had an interest in these sets.
Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 2:34 AM

I note that the most costly Spanish-language base package Tesoro would be eighth if included it in these lists. That's higher than any English-language denominational base package.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 389
James C. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 2:49 AM

Mark Barnes:

I'm not entirely surprised by Pentecostal and Charismatic being top. I think there are two main reasons for that.

  • First, that stream only goes up to Silver, so whilst Reformed Buyers sales were split over seven packages, P&C customers were only split over three. You'd expect higher sales per product in that scenario.
  • Second, P&C Silver contains a couple of moderately expensive sets of general interest to evangelicals that aren't available in standard base pacakges (IVPNT $290, only in Platinum and above; Life Application $200 not in any other base package; David Guzik $185 not in any other package; Tozer Collection $400 not in any other package). I would imagine the dynamic price on P&C Silver for a Gold owner would be quite attractive if they had an interest in these sets.

I'm wondering if the Pentecostal and Charismatic package is so high due to the fact that when it was first made available it was for free for a few hours (by mistake).

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 3:22 AM

Mark Barnes:
In this case, however, all the L6 packages were launched at the same time.

I think you've probably correctly identified the factors that influence sales of the Pentecostal and Charismatic base packages - possibly neglecting pent up demand. I believe this was the last denominational grouping to get base packages.

I'm encouraged by the rankings of less costly base packages, it seems to indicate that the customer base is continuing to grow.

The Dynamic Price incentive may be the most influential factor driving sales for many of the other base packages.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 3:30 AM

JAL:
I'm encouraged by the rankings of less costly base packages, it seems to indicate that the customer base is continuing to grow.

Then again, maybe this just indicates that many took a least costly path updating to L6 before the free update was available.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 4:30 AM

JAL:

JAL:
I'm encouraged by the rankings of less costly base packages, it seems to indicate that the customer base is continuing to grow.

Then again, maybe this just indicates that many took a least costly path updating to L6 before the free update was available.

And still again, it may indicate that owners of large libraries rounded off their main package by taking advantage of dynamic pricing for the small denominational packages. But seing Diamond, Portfolio and even Collectors that high on the list seems to indicate that Faithlife is going strong financially.

The relative position of the deniminational packages will surely be affected not only by the demographics of the user base, but also by the availability of core works in the standard line (which is pretty "reformed" already, some say) versus in the denom packages (Lutheran with Luther's Works might sell better) versus in add-on bundles.    

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Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 4:47 AM

NB.Mick:
And still again, it may indicate that owners of large libraries rounded off their main package by taking advantage of dynamic pricing for the small denominational packages.

Agreed - see my earlier post.

JAL:
The Dynamic Price incentive may be the most influential factor driving sales for many of the other base packages.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 615
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 14 2015 9:53 AM

Another Reformed CP that's (surprisingly) struggling is: Select Life and Works of Matthew Henry.

More positively, the Patrick Fairbairn collection is coming on well, and 7 volumes each of Thomas Watson and Jeremiah Burroughs didn't take too long before becoming pre-pubs (though the Watson collection has been 'under development' for well over a year).

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 14 2015 3:41 PM

Stephen Steele:

Another Reformed CP that's (surprisingly) struggling is: Select Life and Works of Matthew Henry.

"Surprisingly" indeed! When I first came this in CP I thought it was a no-brainer but, alas, I'm still waiting ...

Posts 615
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 16 2015 3:44 PM

There's also been very little movement on The Sermons and Lectures of John Calvin - it's still sitting at the opening price (which will gradually go up as people pre-order).

Posts 2811
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 16 2015 5:24 PM

SineNomine:
In your estimation, what are the ten weightiest Reformed products presently languishing in CP or PrePub?

I'll jump on this. It isn't necessarily Reformed, but the English Bible Collection has been languishing for a long time. This is supposed to be a Bible Software program and we can't get important historical bibles out of CP.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 16 2015 7:48 PM

MJ. Smith:

Mark Barnes:

If you look at the sales of base packages, you'll see that Reformed base packages outsell all other 'denominational' packages. The top 10 of denominational packages is:

  1. Pentecostal & Charismatic Silver
  2. Reformed Gold
  3. Reformed Starter
  4. Baptist Gold
  5. Reformed Bronze
  6. Verbum Basic
  7. SDA Silver
  8. Reformed Platinum
  9. Baptist Starter
  10. Verbum Foundation

Interesting and not quite what I would have predicted (the Pentecostal & Charismatic surprises me). But I can't help wondering what I'm seeing.

  1. What is the source of the data?
  2. What is the time period of the data?
  3. Where do the "standard" packages fit in the list?

The webstore had glitched last year giving away P & C 5 silver for free for a day or two.

Then the upgrade from P & C 5 to 6 was inexpensive.

Suspect those two facts are related to the popularity of the BP.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

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