How many programmers

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 6:06 AM

Bootjack:

Does anyone know how many programmers are there involved in making, fixing Logos? 



Possibly three. One to change it, and two to complain about how bad M$ customer support isBig Smile

Dave
===

Windows & Android

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 8:12 AM

Dave, after reading your reply, I nearly had to go outside and do 30 laps around the house!!! :-)

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 8:34 AM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
I do think this company tries harder thought I don't think enough effort is made in perfecting one thing before moving to the net.
Just an opinion.

I think you are right. If the DSM-V addressed corporate abnormalities, Faithlife would be the textbook case of a company with ADHD. Been here since L3. Every version is advanced well before any of a hundred or more fixes are completed.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 18672
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 11:28 AM

Dave Hooton:

Bootjack:

Does anyone know how many programmers are there involved in making, fixing Logos? 



Possibly three. One to change it, and two to complain about how bad M$ customer support isBig Smile

LOL! I immediately thought of lightbulb jokes when I first saw the subject line of this thread. Glad to see I wasn't the only one with my mind on humor.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 1:41 PM

Rosie Perera:

Dave Hooton:

Bootjack:

Does anyone know how many programmers are there involved in making, fixing Logos? 



Possibly three. One to change it, and two to complain about how bad M$ customer support isBig Smile

LOL! I immediately thought of lightbulb jokes when I first saw the subject line of this thread. Glad to see I wasn't the only one with my mind on humor.

LOL

How many programmers does it take to change a light bulb?

NONE!! That's a hardware problem!

Posts 2085
LogosEmployee

Fredc:

How many programmers does it take to change a light bulb?

NONE!! That's a hardware problem!

Big Smile Personally speaking, this is totally true.

It turns out it's a hard question to answer. Anywhere from 10 to... 60 (as a semi-random guess, it could be a lot more) depending on how you count it. Do you count the people on the website teams that write the "web pages" that are embedded in the software? Do you count the people who write the server software that provides all the online services that the software depends on? Do you count the people who maintain the server hardware? Do you count the people who write and fix code for different projects that is shared by the desktop software. Some people work exclusively on lower level libraries that are shared across a broad variety of uses (including desktop software), such as our resource display engine. Do you count people that fix problems in resources that are exposed in the desktop software (no coding changes required). Do you count people that create and fix the various databases that drive so many of the features in the software. Do you count testers that are instrumental in finding and verifying problems? Do you count support who are involved in finding and communicating solutions to problems with interactions between the software and user-specific machine configurations? Do you count people who create training materials that help users understand how to better use the software? Do you count the people who maintain the information on the websites that help you discover what you might want to purchase in order to improve your library?

Making and fixing Logos Bible Software is truly a giant team effort that involves a very large portion of the company.

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 2:25 PM

This makes me more amazed that aged problems such as "not responding" haven't been fixed a loooooong time ago. Factbook / Community Tags is another ongoing problem that seems to stand out. 

And what new version of Logos is going to overcome even this persisting issue - the "not responding" that is a carry over from Logos 5? :-)

Posts 2085
LogosEmployee

Bootjack:

This makes me more amazed that aged problems such as "not responding" haven't been fixed a loooooong time ago. Factbook / Community Tags is another ongoing problem that seems to stand out. 

And what' to day that a new version of Logos is going to overcome even these two issues - the "not responding" is a carry over from Logos 5 so yes, this should have been addressed a long ways back. 

All of the problems that we know about have a tracking case created and are prioritized for fixing. Factors in prioritization can include facets such as severity of the problem, number of user affected, technical feasibility, expense in resolving the problem, and availability of people needed to resolve the problem. Prioritization can also change over time as various facets change.

If you can provide me some links to forum threads regarding the issues you are concerned about, I can bring these issues back to the attention of people who manage our priorities. That doesn't guarantee a fix, but does mean that the priority can be reconsidered (and potentially adjusted).

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 2:44 PM

Bootjack:
aged problems such as "not responding" haven't been fixed a loooooong time ago.

Bootjack, can you be more specific? A "not responding" error is a generic symptom that happens whenever a Windows application hangs/crashes. There can be many reasons for a hang or crash. There have been dozens of different crashing bugs reported on the forums and fixed in Logos over the years. Which one are you referring to that you know to be an aged one that has not been fixed in a loooooong time? The fact that more of them crop up from time to time does not mean there is an outstanding problem that hasn't been fixed. These are usually new bugs that get introduced when new code is written for new features. But it still has that familiar old "not responding" symptom, so it may seem like it's the same old bug. However, if there's a thread about one such crash that has been around for a long time without being addressed, please point it out.

Bootjack:
Factbook / Community Tags is another ongoing problem that seems to stand out. 

Again, could you be specific about what is wrong with these two feature areas? Post a link to a thread that already discusses it if there is one you know of.

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 2:55 PM

Thanks for the response Andrew. I've reported the Factbook / Community Tags issue by email (can't remember the address at the moment) several months back. I got a response back saying they would try to push this one to the front, with no guarantees of course. I cannot search through threads at the moment where I've complained about this before.  :-) 

Rosie, the "not responding" will rear its ugly head when I open up a Layout. This is where I remember seeing this most. 

As to the Factbook / Community Tags, type in *Spirit* then go down to community tags and try opening up The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia / also the Lexham Bible Dictionary. These will not work.

The fellow I reported this to a few months ago told me he got the same problem when trying to open these two sources. 

Hopefully this will help you to see where I'm coming from. I can totally agree there are many snags which Logos is probably dealing with, but I'm still amazed at how long some of these haven't been overcome yet, especially the "not responding" which again, is a carry over from at least Logos 5. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 3:00 PM

As Bootjack says, the Factbook Community Tags expansion issue is discussed in a number of threads. See https://community.logos.com/forums/t/93283.aspx for an example

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 3:09 PM

Thanks Graham for pointing out the links. Rosie, I didn't intentionally overlook your explanation regarding the "not responding" issue --- after reading your posting again, you're making good sense, although it baffles me as to why with me, it's been the layouts since Logos 5. 

As to earlier than Logos 5, I wasn't around in those days! :-) 

Posts 18672
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 3:11 PM

Bootjack:
Rosie, the "not responding" will rear its ugly head when I open up a Layout. This is where I remember seeing this most. 

Does this happen every time? Or just occasionally? And is this a temporary "not responding" (where it's just really slow, but then comes back to life), or is it a "not responding" to the point of needing to terminate the Logos process? I.e., Logos has completely hung. If it's the former, that issue has been discussed in a few threads recently, and it happens in various parts of the program, and I agree it's been taking too long to address, though they did claim to have made an improvement in it. Don't have time to search for the threads right now.

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 3:14 PM

Thank you for your response Rosie. This is not a problem that has me to terminate the program. I would say about 99% of the time with the opening of a Layout, I'll see the "not responding" which will last roughly 4-5 seconds then that Layout will open up. All else proceeds as though normal. 

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LogosEmployee
Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 3:28 PM

Bootjack:

Thank you for your response Rosie. This is not a problem that has me to terminate the program. I would say about 99% of the time with the opening of a Layout, I'll see the "not responding" which will last roughly 4-5 seconds then that Layout will open up. All else proceeds as though normal. 

Could you follow the steps at https://www.logos.com/support/logos6/windows/report-performance to get some performance logs of this? But where it says to send them to support, please instead email them to logosbugs@logos.com. Just reference this thread, and I'll get it to the developers.

Also, a screencast of the hang could be useful, though the above logs are more important. You can use Jing for free to take a screencast.

Dylan Rondeau, Software Tester

Enable Logging: Mac | Windows (Right-click "Save As...")

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LogosEmployee
Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 3:48 PM

Graham Criddle:

As Bootjack says, the Factbook Community Tags expansion issue is discussed in a number of threads. See https://community.logos.com/forums/t/93283.aspx for an example

The case for this issue is still active, and has activity as recently as yesterday. FYI Smile

Dylan Rondeau, Software Tester

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Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 4:00 PM

Bootjack:

Does anyone know how many programmers are there involved in making, fixing Logos? 

As a retired software engineer (our application had four million lines of code), I can tell you that there is a limit to the number of bodies you can throw at software problems. After a certain point, extra help makes more mess. For example, even if you gave me nine women, I couldn't give you a baby in a month.

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Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 4:56 PM

The Mythical Man Month

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Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 4:56 PM

Dylan, I'll get back to you later tomorrow on this one. I'll try and follow the instructions and send in the report. 

I do notice in your next post, that you say "the case for this issue is still active" ... are you telling me Logos is working on this?

Posts 732
Bootjack | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2015 6:28 PM

Dylan, we'll call this tomorrow - I found a few minutes to send in the log files after downloading the Logos Performance Tool. 

Just before sending it, I opened up a Layout, got the "not responding" message, then got the log file and sent it in. 

I would imagine this problem will be fixed by the Techs at Logos by May 14th 2015.  :-} 

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