Do you want every ebook in the world in Logos?

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 4:21 AM

Bob Pritchett:
I don't know that this is working for me, and I'm giving serious thought to changing my model. Because I thought I'd get judged for my actions -- which would always be better than people expected, and never worse than what I'd led people to believe. But in daily practice the judgement seems to be based on fantastical extrapolations from things I say and haven't even done yet (or ever). 

I think that people judge both actions and words. Personally, over my life I've been wrong so many times about how people appear to me in both their actions and words that now I try to make every effort not to judge. Rather I find it works much better to respond to people with questions than with statements and, as the discussion continues, clarification comes. Doing this helps minimize the times I'm left with "egg on my face" about an issue.

Bob, for what is it is worth I have always had confidence in the final decisions you have made because I've seen you consistently make excellent ones over the past couple of decades. May God continue to give you the wisdom you need to run an excellent business for the glory of God.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 4:48 AM

Bob Pritchett:
I haven't even licensed 'all the books in the world' yet and there's discussion of how we might be bringing photos from erotic books into the search results when pastors are doing sermon prep, and abandoning our core mission to take advantage of our much larger sales in non-biblical studies. Huh? Why would we ever do that? What in our 24 year history makes anyone think we'd allow that?

Did someone really say that? The problem with a thread like this: It is impossible for most people to read everything that gets posted and to follow the "discussion." I know that I wrote about the possibility of FL carrying porn... but that was based on your original post when you said that you would have to carry EVERYTHING by the publisher.

I never had any doubts of your integrity. In the weird world that we live in today where we "know" people we have never met, I believe you to be of highest integrity. My assessment is based upon your interactions in the forums, and not because you are the CEO of a "christian" business. Anyone who suggests otherwise hasn't gotten to "know" you. 

There have been many "yes" and "no" posts to mull over. Some users wanted to lump every "yes" or "no" answer into two monolithic groups... but they were not. I saw more than 50 shades of grey in each camp. Stick out tongue As a consumer who wants access to a growing catalog, my answer was "yes." As someone who saw some pitfalls, I changed my recommendation to "no" because I wouldn't do it. After some of your revision posts, my answer is probably a firm "maybe." Big Smile

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 5:02 AM

alabama24:

Bob Pritchett:
I haven't even licensed 'all the books in the world' yet and there's discussion of how we might be bringing photos from erotic books into the search results when pastors are doing sermon prep, and abandoning our core mission to take advantage of our much larger sales in non-biblical studies. Huh? Why would we ever do that? What in our 24 year history makes anyone think we'd allow that?

Did someone really say that?

There were at least these posts:

David Taylor Jr:
That being said, the reason it is a big deal with specific to erotica is it is not just fiction but photos also offered by the publishers. If these are included there is a chance that it could pop up in a search, random book, etc, even if it is not purposefully done. That would cause many to stumble.  That is wrong.

Bruce Dunning:
I think the issue is not as much the world stumbling on materials that are not appropriate.If there was a concern I would think it might be a weak Christian stumbling as a result of doing some sort of search.

I think Bruce was referring to searching the store website, not searching in Logos. David may have been saying that too. Perhaps Bob has misunderstood?

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 5:25 AM

Dan Francis:

Jacob Hantla:

Bob, I personally would be for it, as long as you don't have to sell your soul to get them.

The more books that I can get in my library the better, and the larger the audience.

I would way rather send my money to faithlife than Amazon any day. 

Yes Geeked Yes



This quoted post sums up my feelings pretty well.

Bob if you find a way to do it that you are comfortable with, then I trust you. You are as committed to the Lord as anyone else here. As I've said in other things - I trust you.

You have always done right by me, and have been more than generous in a number of things. You always put us (the customer) first - even when it sometimes is against policy.

That is why I've invested 4 (maybe almost 5 by now...) figures and purchased over 10,000 books. I'm not going away anytime soon, even if you start a dating app. *chuckle*

Blessings!

Edited because I can't count apparently.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 8:02 AM

I guess I missed the issue somehere in the first post. The question posed a large library coming in, and a potential inability to control the title mix. That was followed by 'maybe control 10%'.  And this generated some interest from the Christian community.  Far less than the comments at our church, I might add.

Then the last post by the OP basically expressed some surprise. Huh?  Now, we just got back from a great geology run, complete with 4 billion year old rocks. We're not theologically bashful. But I do feel sorry for some folks on the conservative perspective that thought the OP was serious.  Well, he did hire someone to run a dating game not long ago.


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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 26 2015 11:29 AM

Mark Barnes:

alabama24:

Bob Pritchett:
I haven't even licensed 'all the books in the world' yet and there's discussion of how we might be bringing photos from erotic books into the search results when pastors are doing sermon prep, and abandoning our core mission to take advantage of our much larger sales in non-biblical studies. Huh? Why would we ever do that? What in our 24 year history makes anyone think we'd allow that?

Did someone really say that?

There were at least these posts:

David Taylor Jr:
That being said, the reason it is a big deal with specific to erotica is it is not just fiction but photos also offered by the publishers. If these are included there is a chance that it could pop up in a search, random book, etc, even if it is not purposefully done. That would cause many to stumble.  That is wrong.

Bruce Dunning:
I think the issue is not as much the world stumbling on materials that are not appropriate.If there was a concern I would think it might be a weak Christian stumbling as a result of doing some sort of search.

I think Bruce was referring to searching the store website, not searching in Logos. David may have been saying that too. Perhaps Bob has misunderstood?

Yes Mark, I was referring to the store. Thanks for clarifying.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 28 2015 2:03 PM

delete

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 28 2015 2:10 PM

No one likes a NOET all. Stick out tongue

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Simon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 3:16 AM

I would love the idea of having the ability to add all books I want to Logos, if

  1. A new store/website is created. I wouldn't like the idea of having to find my way through a lot of non christian books on logos.com / vyrso.com
  2. If Logos offers something to compete with the Kindle e-readers. Reading books is best done on a e-reader with a e-ink display. So, Logos should choose one or more Android driven e-readers and commit to long term support to a Logos app on those e-readers.
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 5:00 AM

Simon:
If Logos offers something to compete with the Kindle e-readers. Reading books is best done on a e-reader with a e-ink display. So, Logos should choose one or more Android driven e-readers and commit to long term support to a Logos app on those e-readers.

Are you unaware of the L6 "send to kindle" feature?

if you are talking about a full android app... There is already one of those too. 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 5:36 AM

alabama24:

Simon:
If Logos offers something to compete with the Kindle e-readers. Reading books is best done on a e-reader with a e-ink display. So, Logos should choose one or more Android driven e-readers and commit to long term support to a Logos app on those e-readers.

Are you unaware of the L6 "send to kindle" feature?

if you are talking about a full android app... There is already one of those too. 

Send to Kindle is great, but it doesn't provide the full functionality of an app. 

The apps are great too, but they don't run great on eInk displays (e.g. They don't support hardware buttons to change pages, don't refresh the screen efficientl, don't use a colour palette that works well in monochrome, etc.)

If the Logos app had all these features, I'd buy an eInk Android device to read my Logos books. 

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 5:42 AM

Mark Barnes:
If the Logos app had all these features, I'd buy an eInk Android device to read my Logos books. 

Yes, most definitely I would too! I have a kindle and a tablet. I sent a text to kindle recently and was frustrated by the limitations. So I went on my tablet to read it and it was a much better experience as far as ease of use goes, but very uncomfortable as far as screen glare goes. In the end, I am reading the book on my laptop with an anti-glare filter, but this of course, is not as good an experience either as the portability of an e-ink reader with full logos app functionality would be.

(But it would appear we have hijacked the thread away from its original purpose).

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 6:41 AM

Mark Barnes:
If the Logos app had all these features, I'd buy an eInk Android device to read my Logos books. 

I would too. E-ink is the key as my eyes feel weary after reading on my iPad for a while.

Francis:
(But it would appear we have hijacked the thread away from its original purpose).

Oops...I think you are right.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 6:48 AM

Francis:
(But it would appear we have hijacked the thread away from its original purpose).

Perhaps it was time Big Smile

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 4:23 PM

I have not weighed in yet on this topic - but now I'll offer a thought. It's not a new thought, maybe expressed in a new way. I have been a customer for probably 15 years, frankly I have lost track. My library is over 21,000 books. I use Verbum constantly in my ministry. I preached a homily today, and another Deacon in the congregation came back to the sacristy after Mass and said how much he liked my homily - "What commentary do you use?" I said "It's not a commentary - go to Verbum.com".

I have been surprised many times by your vision, Bob - I remember grumbling about the movement to mobile - now who could do without it. (I was good with cloud by the way, many weren't and still aren't). Mac was another distraction - now I have one (many improvements, but still freezes a lot for me). I have complained in the past for more tools and support of those doing more serious research - and those have been coming fast and hard in the last 18 months.  I complained about the total lack of Roman Catholic commitment years ago, given there are 1.2 billion of them on the earth, and maybe good Bible software might bring the 70% back who need a map to find their Church; and now we have a very substantial base of support for Catholic study (although I miss Andrew Jones GREATLY, just saying). So as any good CEO needs to do, you have made some GREAT calls based on your vision. And I have to believe from any measurement, Logos/Faithlife is in stronger/better/more competitive shape than it was 5 years ago. Very nice job!

The reply that pops in my head FIRST, when I read things like this though, because I understand that any new venture takes away from others, is where is the same fire and passion on making the tools we have NOW better, more efficient, less quirky, more complete. I would love to get rid of the feeling Faithlife is a "implement it 80% and move on" company, as a maybe-necessary by-product of having so many new roads to travel. But it hurts, and my own attitude toward the product is almost manic depressive as some days I struggle with things that I frankly wonder why anyone who knows they exist continues to let the product exist without fixes. You mention how you feel about the promises you made, I feel that some promises HAVE been unkept because features that we have today are not completed - at least in this poor user's perspective. But I still can't use Logos personal book sync, because it has size limits so the solution only works for SOME books - can't see the personal books on mobile devices - have crummy management tools when I have 297 personal books to contend with - just as one example.

I won't belabor the point - the specifics are eminently available on the forums. I feel bad when it sours my attitude, as I have never thought of abandoning Logos/Verbum. But I wish at times I felt you listened more to those of us in the trenches that use the product for hours each day.

With that one caveat - in most cases your vision is excellent - I am sure you have learned to trust it.

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doc | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2015 4:37 PM

Bob Pritchett:
Bottom Line: If we could offer every ebook Amazon offers, but only if we did offer every ebook Amazon offers, should we? And if so, how?

The bottom line Bob is what is motivating you to consider this direction. You really need to seriously consider the answer to that question. Everything else I could say is moot until you have honestly answered this question for yourself.  Maybe you have - I haven't looked at every post in this thread, only a few at this point.

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JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2015 7:26 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Thank you, everyone, for the feedback.

I think we've gotten as much value as we're going to get from the debate.

My summary:

I chose '50 Shades' as an example because it was the most objectionable title I could think of from a 'major' publisher (and, due to its recent massive cultural impact, probably an example everyone would understand the content of without having read it).

I'm sorry if that choice took the discussion off-track, though it does seem to have accomplished the purpose of staking out the extremes of the relevant issues.

I think I have the feedback we need to make the upcoming decisions.

(emphasis mine)

I'm not sure there's much to be gained by continuing to post on this thread. There are discussions that may be better served by starting afresh elsewhere.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

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Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2015 7:44 AM

How does one maintain their "integrity" and "vision" related to Christian faith issues when the business is to sell as many books as possible on every subject imaginable?  That is sort of like telling Pepsi their soft drink products are so much better because they also sell bottled water...what an Orwellian view of marketing imo.

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Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2015 8:32 AM

My personal bottom line:

I purchase some secular literature anyway (possibly a heretical action when I consider some of the contributions here).

And if there's any way to have FL benefit from that purchase instead of Amazon, I'd welcome that option.

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Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 13 2015 11:30 PM

Just wandering where we're at Bob.

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