Curriculum Development

Page 1 of 2 (27 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 26 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 132
Donald McNeeley | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jan 30 2010 7:40 AM

I am on the curriculum development team at my school and we are contemplating requiring LOGOS 4.0 Scholar level for all students.  I was wondering if anyone has sat down and mapped their curriculum to the titles in LOGOIS 4.0 Scholar?

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 1:40 PM

Donald,

I look forward to seeing if anyone here can answer that.  Just in case they don't  I'm almost certain that is a great question for the folks in Academic.  http://www.logos.com/academichome 

Contact the Academic Sales Department at 800-878-4191 or email academic@logos.com.

They will get you into contact with the right people to answer that question straight from Logos.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 293
Mike Measley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 4:38 PM

Hi Donald,

We have a learning center for Tyndale Theological Seminary at our church.  I have not necessarily mapped all of the resources for all of the classes, though I have consistently looked for and recommended our students purchase the books for their classes in Logos whenever they have been available.  

For students who are pursuing a Continuing Education Certificate, I recommend that they purchase the Bible Study Library, and then individual resources as they need them.  This is typically more affordable, and gets them the specific resources they need for their classes.  

For students who are pursuing an Associates Degree in Biblical Studies, I recommend they purchase the Bible Study Library, The Compare Parallel bible Versions add-in, Vine's, Louw-Nida, Complete Word Study Dictionary NT/OT, and then individual resources as needed for classes.

For students who are pursuing a Bachelor's Degree in Biblical Studies (which involves Greek studies), I recommend the Scholar's library, Vine's, Louw-Nida, Complete Word Study Dictionary, NT/OT, BDAG, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, and individial resources as needed for classes.  Some of these students have purchased the Bible Study Library and then upgraded when they get to the Greek studies to spread the costs out.

I would estimate that about 2/3 of the required texts for courses I have taught have been available in Logos.  In addition to have many of the required texts, there are so many other resources available that our students have found it easy to have the required 6 sources for their papers.  

We had a class on computer aided research where we looked at a number of different internet and software tools.  Logos really was the highlight of that course, and is the program that I personally recommended all of the students purchase.  The number of resources, and how they keep adding more, is a real benefit.  I expect that the resources that we don't have in Logos, will likely be there in the future.

All of our students have expressed to me, sometimes repeatedly, how much they love having the resources in Logos so that they can use them in their papers and have the footnotes and bibliography created.  Logos 4 does not yet have the Bibliography tool, though it should be coming this year.  Check out the missing features.

When you register your school with Logos Academic, they set up web pages for your students to go to in order to purchase their books.  It really makes it easy, and when it is required, they get a deep discount on many of the resources.

This does not directly answer your question, but I hope that it gives a little perspective.  I think you would do well to require Scholar's for your students.  

mike

Hope this flows... I tried to type this out between "Daddy can we... " Smile  Now I better go check on what is happening!

Windows 7, Nexus 7

Posts 132
Donald McNeeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 5:28 PM

Thanks for the response and encouragement.  We are in middle of pursuing this concept and can use all the help we can get.  One item I am concerned about is the latency of the library; but that is something that I think can be handled with handouts.  Again, thanks for the encouragement.

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 5:37 PM

Donald McNeeley:
One item I am concerned about is the latency of the library

What do you mean by this? How does the library have latency? Do you mean the delay between when a book appears in print and when it is available in Logos?

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 132
Donald McNeeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 6:04 PM

You have captured my concern for using LOGOS resources witihin a curriculum.  For instance, suppose we have selected:

French, Robert A. Keys to the Bible's Treasures : How to Determine the Meaning of Bible Texts. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1999. as our secondary text for a course (Scripture being the primary).  Note that the text is dated to 1999.  As academics, we need to ensure that our students are being taught with the best material around.  So, already, this text is eleven years old.  Since the idea is for the students to purchase LOGOS as a means to obtain their course texts how long would this text be good for the course. Will LOGOS seek out getting an new text that would satisfy the course requirements.  Hopefully, this makes sense.

I am looking forward to some great discussion on this topic.

Posts 19216
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 7:37 PM

There is quite a wide variation in the time it takes to get something from print publication to Logos format. It depends on the publisher and how tight Logos's relationship with them is, along with other factors such as how big the potential market for the resource is, etc.

Just for reference, I have 59 resources in my library with a publication date of 2009 or later (none from 2010 yet, no surprise). The vast majority of these (50) list Logos Research Systems as the publisher. But that means 9 books I own were published by other publishers in 2009 and are already out in Logos format. If I look at 2008 or later, that figure goes up to 105. This includes commentaries, grammars, books of theology, devotionals.

The base packages like Scholar's Library are not likely to change as frequently, but there are constantly new books coming out (see http://www.logos.com/products/groups/allitems/new-products for recent releases). So you might find that a combination of Scholar's as a base package and some other books as required textbooks for courses would end up being necessary. For example, the offerings in Church History included in Scholar's Library are OK, but you might not want to limit your choice of textbooks for a church history course to only what's there. For this you'd want to look through the Church History Product Guide (there are product guides for each major category) and select the best book available from there.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 7:50 PM

Donald McNeeley:

You have captured my concern for using LOGOS resources witihin a curriculum.  For instance, suppose we have selected:

French, Robert A. Keys to the Bible's Treasures : How to Determine the Meaning of Bible Texts. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1999. as our secondary text for a course (Scripture being the primary).  Note that the text is dated to 1999.  As academics, we need to ensure that our students are being taught with the best material around.  So, already, this text is eleven years old.  Since the idea is for the students to purchase LOGOS as a means to obtain their course texts how long would this text be good for the course. Will LOGOS seek out getting an new text that would satisfy the course requirements.  Hopefully, this makes sense.

I am looking forward to some great discussion on this topic.

Hello Donald,

It's been my experience that the age of a work has very little to do with the validity and quality of said work.

(climbing onto my soapbox)

Printed textbooks have turned in to more of a way to increase revenue (for everyone except the student), than a means of providing the best information. It has become a vicious cycle of "kick-backs", and payola, that has firmly ingrained itself into the educational system. Even to the point of making an educator feel as if he (or she) is somehow depriving their students by not using the latest edition of a textbook that really has no additional information that the previous edition.

(climbing down now)

That being said, the current paradigm shift in publishing, causing electronic titles to appear simultaneously with the printed versions, should reduce latency of academic works being released in Logos format as well.

 

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 9479
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 7:55 PM

A totally Logos-based curriculum? For what sort of courses at what level? You haven't revealed much about the institution you are serving nor the level nor types of courses you wish to offer.

Overall, I think a few courses at the college or even seminary level could be accomplished with solely Logos-based resources. I just wonder how far you can make this happen and still expose students to the kinds of texts they need to interact with. I'm not being snobby, just realistic. I can think of a few seminary classes where I'm not sure Logos would have adequate texts. Perhaps they do, but they aren't in Scholar's Library. College level courses might not be as much of a challenge.

It seems academically limiting to teach only what is available in one software package of from a software vendor. Perhaps you mean to supplement with other printed texts. Knowing a little more of what you are trying to do would help the discussion.

 

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 8:34 PM

Paul Golder:
It's been my experience that the age of a work has very little to do with the validity and quality of said work.

Yes.

Paul Golder:
Printed textbooks have turned in to more of a way to increase revenue (for everyone except the student), than a means of providing the best information.

& YES!

 

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 8:42 PM

Mark A. Smith:
A totally Logos-based curriculum?

There are several educational institutions currently developing their complete course of study around Logos Scholar edition. They are adding taped lectures & printed lesson materials to create diploma/degree studies by distance education. None have traditional accreditation that I know of and some even use YouTube for lecture videos.

If a student is only after guided study I see no problem with this approach. It would most likely not suffice for vocational preparation and be of less intensity than a brick & mortar accredited establishment. But I say "HooRay!" to the expanding opportunities.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 9479
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 30 2010 9:07 PM

Matthew C Jones:
It would most likely not suffice for vocational preparation and be of less intensity than a brick & mortar accredited establishment.

That clarifies things, if that's the track Donald is on. I see nothing wrong with being able to offer an alternative to an accredited on-campus degree, as long as everyone knows what is what. Lots of God's servants need training that can't come through traditional approaches. My only cause for pause is that in these cases graduates can sometimes form the opinion that what they got is actually more than what they got. But that is off topic, another subject for someplace other than a Logos forum. No snub is meant by that statement to anyone nor any snobbery, either. We are all humbly grateful for the opportunities we've been given, no matter what they've been.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 132
Donald McNeeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 8:19 AM

Sir,

This is for a four year Bible College and we are looking at how well LOGOS would support the curriculum.  I do not expect that we can rely totally on LOGOS library, but we are looking into how well it would fulfill the curriculum text requirements.

Posts 132
Donald McNeeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 8:20 AM

Would it be possible to receive contact points for these schools?

Posts 132
Donald McNeeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 8:22 AM

Sir,

Is it possible that you could give me a few contact points for these schools?

Posts 9479
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 10:06 AM

Donald McNeeley:
I do not expect that we can rely totally on LOGOS library, but we are looking into how well it would fulfill the curriculum text requirements.

It sounds interesting. I hope if you do go in this direction we could see how you do it.

I also wonder if creating a custom library for your use wouldn't be something Logos could consider. I know they are really interested in the academic market.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 132
Donald McNeeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 5:08 PM

Thanks for the encouragement.  Not sure who to talk to at LOGOS for the custom library concept.

Posts 9479
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2010 6:08 PM

Not sure if he still in this same position, but he is still working for Logos: Dr. Michael Heiser. Here's some info. I think you can reach him through the Logos phone system.

http://www.logos.com/press/releases/mikeheiser09-2004

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 1 2010 8:18 PM

Donald McNeeley:

Would it be possible to receive contact points for these schools?

 

Donald,

I have not kept a running list but I will try to post what I remember. I've been extremely busy away from the computer for many days running but I'll try to get some up tommorrow. Some institutions are impressive looking while others seem a bit shallow as Mark cautions. I do believe somebody at Logos must be working with third parties addressing their needs in special collections. Over the years there have been varied collections that are tailor made for certain groups. Some are probably third party publications but some look like purely Logos but do not appear on this website. I hope in the near future students will find a complete curriculum available in Logos. (That is another reason to beg Logos for PBB capabilities in Version 4.)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 229
Jeremy White | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 1 2010 9:02 PM

Paul Golder:
Printed textbooks have turned in to more of a way to increase revenue (for everyone except the student), than a means of providing the best information. It has become a vicious cycle of "kick-backs", and payola, that has firmly ingrained itself into the educational system. Even to the point of making an educator feel as if he (or she) is somehow depriving their students by not using the latest edition of a textbook that really has no additional information that the previous edition.

Paul I'm sure you would appreciate this link http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/news/1001/gallery.americas_biggest_ripoffs/6.html 

 

Scripture set to music for worship and aid memorization. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-DojPa0TlpCGhtUJq1e3Pw

Page 1 of 2 (27 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS