Sell me Logos 7 today!

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This post has 221 Replies | 12 Followers

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John Goodman | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Aug 13 2015 1:53 PM

Dear Faithlife,

A number of us have expressed concerns on the forum because as long time customers with larger libraries Logos Now and Logos cloud don't really fit our need.

Basically because:

A) We like to own the product, we don't like rental.

B) We will continue to choose and buy lots of books that are not in the cloud set.

C) We don't want to pay to rent stuff we already own.

This leaves us feeling a little bit excluded from the exciting new features etc.

My big solution:

Sell me Logos 7 today - let me have the books/features as they become available just like with Logos Cloud/Now. Use the same approach as with the Journal Library. Please consider this - it's an excellent idea! If base packages make that too complex then sell me the minimal crossgrade now but give me the option to bump that up to a base package for a couple of weeks after release day.

Cheers,


John

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 13 2015 2:48 PM

John G,

Let me add my voice to those who own a large amount of books. They should not be forced to rent anything. Rent is for those who can't afford to buy or don't care to have ownership, (like a house -vs- an apartment). Rent-to-own (modified installment plan), this makes more sense.  FL can't sell what it doesn't own. If FL owns the Journal Library, the question is, are they willing to sell it, when, and at what cost? 

Please, Faith Life, where there are customers who love to own, let them buy it out right or do it on a rent-to-own (installment) bases under a contractual agreement, giving them full access. Failure to honor the agreement, one would lose all of the books they owned before the agreement. Besides, FL, no one with many books will run the risk of losing their library. A little flexibility can prove to be a win win for all parties.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 13 2015 3:27 PM

John - depending upon the precise details of the credit Logos Now users get towards Logos 7, it sounds to me like you are proposing Logos Now less a few perks. Logos Now is intended for people who purchase their resources rather than renting them, has no relationship to the cloud set of Logos Cloud, and as you are renting nothing that is possible to own.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Jim | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 13 2015 3:33 PM

Yes

Have a great day,
jmac

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 13 2015 4:40 PM

John Goodman:

let me have the books/features as they become available just like with Logos Cloud/Now.

John, I am trying to understand.

You refer to 'books...as they become available.' What books are these? Logos Cloud is not a pre-release of content of a future base package. It is aimed at those who prefer to rent rather than own, and neither you nor I are the customers Logos has in mind for Cloud. There aren't any 'books...as they become available' for Logos to send you. Whatever the contents of future base packages turn out to be I am sure Faithlife has not configured them yet so can't send you them as they become available. Please explain.

The 'features as they become available' are what Logos Now is about. Are you asking to pay for a crossgrade ahead of time instead of a monthly fee?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 13 2015 4:48 PM

Charles McNeil:

Please, Faith Life, where there are customers who love to own, let them buy it out right or do it on a rent-to-own (installment) bases under a contractual agreement, giving them full access.

Charles, you say 'let them buy it out right.' What is the 'it' you want to buy but cannot?

It seems to me Logos has something better than (or at least as good as) rent-to-own. They have 'make monthly payments to pay off what you have full use of'. You can pay for whatever you want over a period of months (currently up to 24). In the meantime you can enjoy them from the day you make the initial commitment to pay over time. Would this not get you what you want?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 9946
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 13 2015 9:35 PM

John Goodman:
Sell me Logos 7 today - let me have the books/features as they become available just like with Logos Cloud/Now. Use the same approach as with the Journal Library. Please consider this - it's an excellent idea! If base packages make that too complex then sell me the minimal crossgrade now but give me the option to bump that up to a base package for a couple of weeks after release day.

I'm reminded of the line in the movie "Field of Dreams":  If you build it, they will come."  The thing is, they first have to build it.  They can't sell you a product they haven't yet fully developed.  PATIENCE.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 962
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 1:08 AM

Sorry for confusion. I'm not really expecting books particularly to be part of the deal except in some specific cases where features depend on them. The same books which would be part of a minimal crossgrade. Mostly I mean data sets.

This is really not at all complicated. It is just Logos Now with ownership and a higher price. Same way Microsoft sells a subscription to upgrades. When your subscription expires you are left with what you have on the last day of the subscription (possibly omitting the cloud website). By contrast with Logos Now you loose everything.

There are really 2 problems with Logos Now and Logos cloud for users like me and we've all discussed these before.

A) Lack of dynamic pricing for cloud means we are renting stuff we already own.

B) Logos Now is not ownership but it is marketed for people who clearly prefer ownership.

My proposal helps to resolve both of these especially if it also includes a base package and not just the minimal crossgrade.

Sell me Logos 7 today! Same options as usual - full upfront cost or a payment plan. Simple and elegant solution.

Make Logos cloud pricing dynamic.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 3658
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 3:05 AM

As much as I would like to have access to new functionality sooner than later, there are elements of the get-as-they-become-available formula you propose that give me pause: Logos Now, because of its design, can provide partially constructed functionalities and datasets. Would you want to pay for incomplete features? Should the feature be sold as "Propositional Outlines - New Testament" (since OT outlines became available later)? And what if the feature is improved later, like Psalms Explorer: should it be considered an update or would we have to pay for an upgrade? I would also be concerned that selling individual features separately would result in much higher cost in the end. 

As for buying the next upgrade in advance, say pay two years' worth of Logos Now and pre-own Logos 7 instead permanently (as opposed to lost functionalities if you stop Logos Now), I find the idea a bit attractive, but wonder there also whether the ownership mentality is compatible with buying a product before you know what it will really be like. Logos Now is much like that, in the sense that subscribers cannot fully know what it will look like next year (though this should not be exaggerated). However, subscription gives a greater feeling of being free to bail out if you don't like where the product is going. Now, if you purchase Logos 7 in advance and FL comes up with a new design you find awful in a year from now, you could not expect -- having enjoyed access for one year -- to be refunded. 

Just some thoughts... perhaps you have ideas as to how this could work.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 3:21 AM

This is a good idea.

One simple way this could be implemented is for Now subscribers to receive a coupon to purchase a v7 base package / feature crossgrade with a discount based on the number of months they were subscribed to Now. For example, a discount of $5 - $7 / month of subscription.

In that way one could purchase a feature crossgrade of v7 for almost free if you have been subscribed to Now for 2 years.

Posts 3658
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 3:53 AM

Fr Devin Roza:

One simple way this could be implemented is for Now subscribers to receive a coupon to purchase a v7 base package / feature crossgrade with a discount based on the number of months they were subscribed to Now. For example, a discount of $5 - $7 / month of subscription.

In that way one could purchase a feature crossgrade of v7 for almost free if you have been subscribed to Now for 2 years.

I like this idea. In order to make it logistically simple for FL, they would need to automate it (something like dynamic pricing).

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 4:06 AM

John Goodman:
A) Lack of dynamic pricing for cloud means we are renting stuff we already own.

As has been stated many times, the target market for Logos Cloud is not those who already own.

John Goodman:
Logos Now is not ownership but it is marketed for people who clearly prefer ownership.

That is correct. Now is a way for owners to have some additional tools and functionality. Logos has stated that they have not decided what tools and functionality will be made available for sale in Logos 7 (and presumably other future releases) and which ones will remain exclusive to Now. I would like to see (and think we will see) some form of discount or credit offered to Now subscribers when the tools and features are offered for purchase. How that will look remains to be seen, as does what products will be offered.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 4:43 AM

Fr Devin Roza:

This is a good idea.

One simple way this could be implemented is for Now subscribers to receive a coupon to purchase a v7 base package / feature crossgrade with a discount based on the number of months they were subscribed to Now. For example, a discount of $5 - $7 / month of subscription.

In that way one could purchase a feature crossgrade of v7 for almost free if you have been subscribed to Now for 2 years.

Great suggestion.

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 6:20 AM

No, another matter.  Send private email if interested.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 6:28 AM

Fr Devin Roza:

One simple way this could be implemented is for Now subscribers to receive a coupon to purchase a v7 base package / feature crossgrade with a discount based on the number of months they were subscribed to Now. For example, a discount of $5 - $7 / month of subscription.

In that way one could purchase a feature crossgrade of v7 for almost free if you have been subscribed to Now for 2 years.

I like this suggestion as well.

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Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 6:30 AM

Is FL listening? Are we talking into the air? Are they willing to do what seems right and reasonabe to you, anytime soon?

Lastly, is it better for them to develop Logos seven  (7) competely and roll it out one time?

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 6:39 AM

Just let me know when it's built!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 6:50 AM

Charles McNeil:
Is FL listening? Are we talking into the air?

In general. these forums are for users. Faithlife people see many of the threads and comment on some. If you want to engage with Faithlife I suggest you contact them directly. Details are at https://www.logos.com/contact 

Charles McNeil:
Are they willing to do what seems right and reasonabe to you, anytime soon?

In my experience, they are very good at doing what is right and reasonable.

Charles McNeil:
Lastly, is it better for them to develop Logos seven  (7) competely and roll it out one time?

I don't understand what you are asking here. 

Their current model is to add on incremental features (via Logos Now on a subscription basis) as opposed to waiting for a big rollout and, from comments made elsewhere, many people are really appreciating this.

Is that what you are referring to?

Posts 962
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 8:42 AM

I'm not personally interested in the idea of discounts for Now Subscribers. We all want discounts and I'm happy if Now subscribers get discounts. For me, I think mixing rental and ownership just confuses things. I want to be able to buy Logos 7 and all the upgrades from now to then for a fixed price today!

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 14 2015 9:06 AM

I don't understand why people are expecting a coupon for L7 if they are Now users. Faithlife has never said that nor implied it as far as I know. I am a Now subscriber. I get features and resources I would never get until the release of L7. I can use them now instead of later. Faithlife has always said Logos Now is for those of us who prefer to own our base packages. I am not expecting any coupon for L7. Once L7 releases I will buy it and still pay the rent for Logos Now. Logos Now supplements our libraries and to me that is a good thing.

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