Let's request Logos 4 Mac to be more Mac like 1) Enhance the app. icon

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Posts 100
Heath Choate | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2010 9:01 PM

Ben:

Sure, I own many of them and want more, like the JPS Jewish Study Bible. (And I'm clearly playing devil's advocate here, because I think in the long run it will improve the program.)

BUT... say I'm a Mac user, non-Protestant or even Jewish, in grad school for Hebrew Bible, and shopping around for a program. I have no interest in "Bryant’s Sermon Outlines for Evangelistic Services" though that and many similar things are part of the Scholars collection, and I've just heard my big name professor, asked about  Logos, shake his head and say "Well, it's not very scholarly, and includes lots of fluff masquerading as scholarship."

I decide to check out Logos anyway and compare it against its main competitor, Accordance. I look at who's endorsing them. Accordance- Abegg, Rainey, Tov leap out, prominent Hebrew Bible scholars all. Logos? http://www.logos.com/endorsements Uh, lots of pastors and ministers.

I compare packages. Accordance really doesn't include anything like "Bryant's Sermon Outlines" in its packages, and has clearly demarcated "Jewish" and "Catholic" packages. Moreover, its icon is not a cross. And it has things like the Jewish Study Bible, Schocken Bible, Babylonian Talmud, Elephantine letters, etc. (In all fairness, Logos also has some relevant resources that Accordance lacks.)

Which one am I going to pick, especially after hearing my professor's opinion? Which program and forums am I going to feel more "at home" in?

My point is simply that Logos is losing business because of its overt Christian/Protestant/Evangelical branding. I've seen it first-hand. It wouldn't take much to modify- change the scholars collection to be more scholarly, change the icon, perhaps some other small things like that.  That doesn't do anything to its primary market, and goes a long way towards resolving those problems I've mentioned here, which I've seen first-hand.

Sorry for the massive thread-jack.

Perhaps if Logos didn't use a Cross on its logo. Your Jewish self would by Logos under false pretenses and want to complain and sue because it is a Christian Bible Software Program? The title of this thread was about making Logos 4 Mac more Mac Like. People on this forum really enjoy the Mac experience and would like at least the same functionality as the Windows product but would like to see the the appearance and features one comes to expect from a Mac.

 

If people are clamoring for a more "Mac like" experience I can only imagine the difficulty Logos would have shying away from its clear Christian ties in an attempt to broaden its audience . I think Logos is a company that acts as ministry. If they wanted they could create a product that was specifically  for Jewish scholars, one for Muslims and so on.

 

And truth is if Logos fulfills your study needs and you don't like the icon, change it Like I did. I change the Logos 1 Mac Logo from the Libronix Logo because I wanted the cross.

Posts 109
Larry Heflin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2010 9:06 PM

You said,

"Which one am I going to pick, especially after hearing my professor's opinion? Which program and forums am I going to feel more "at home" in?

My point is simply that Logos is losing business because of its overt Christian/Protestant/Evangelical branding. I've seen it first-hand. It wouldn't take much to modify- change the scholars collection to be more scholarly, change the icon, perhaps some other small things like that.  That doesn't do anything to its primary market, and goes a long way towards resolving those problems I've mentioned here, which I've seen first-hand."

My guess, and my hope is that Logos is not solely about money. Scholarly resources are continually being added. Logos got my business precisely because of what you call overt Christian/Protestant/Evangelical branding. If the icon, by which we mean the cross, by which we mean Jesus, is really a small thing in your view, why mention it at all, especially in a context like this forum where you're bound to get a reaction from people like me who attach significance to "the cross." I wouldn't care if Logos had a smurf for its logo, but it wouldn't make much sense. The cross in its logo makes perfect sense. They changed the logo at least once, and I don't care if they do it again. But I hope they don't do it because it is beneath a certain class of scholars who are "ever learning, but are never able to come to a knowledge of the truth." For me, everything is not about money, it's not about knowledge solely for the sake of knowledge, it's not about how scholarly I am perceived by others; it is about Jesus and what He did for us on the cross. Yes, it's only an icon, but the sub-text of your request makes the issue about more than an icon to an overt C/P/E like myself.

Shalom again, Brother

 

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 10 2010 10:33 PM

Ben:
BUT... say I'm a Mac user, non-Protestant or even Jewish, in grad school for Hebrew Bible, and shopping around for a program. I have no interest in "Bryant’s Sermon Outlines for Evangelistic Services" though that and many similar things are part of the Scholars collection, and I've just heard my big name professor, asked about  Logos, shake his head and say "Well, it's not very scholarly, and includes lots of fluff masquerading as scholarship."

I didn't realize Anchor Yale Bible was evangelical...

Ben:
I compare packages. Accordance really doesn't include anything like "Bryant's Sermon Outlines" in its packages, and has clearly demarcated "Jewish" and "Catholic" packages. Moreover, its icon is not a cross. And it has things like the Jewish Study Bible, Schocken Bible, Babylonian Talmud, Elephantine letters, etc. (In all fairness, Logos also has some relevant resources that Accordance lacks.)

Maybe you say that in some fairness, but definitely not all. Cheap shots on sermon outlines aren't helpful. Logos' customer base is far, far broader than Accordance's and thus they have to market both pastors & scholars. And what's more (surprise, surprise) there are far more pastors in the world than there are Hebrew scholars. At least last time I checked.

Ben:
My point is simply that Logos is losing business because of its overt Christian/Protestant/Evangelical branding. I've seen it first-hand. It wouldn't take much to modify- change the scholars collection to be more scholarly, change the icon, perhaps some other small things like that.  That doesn't do anything to its primary market, and goes a long way towards resolving those problems I've mentioned here, which I've seen first-hand.

I doubt it. In fact, Logos is probably gaining far more business than they lose because of their overt Christian/Prostestant/Evangelical branding (minus, of course, Semeia & Anchor & Hermeneia & the Ugaritic collection & all the Continuum volumes). I'll give you that the "scholars" collection is far more of a marketing ploy than anything else, but the fact is that with 10,000 titles available and more and more on the way all the time, your professor's statement:

Ben:
"Well, it's not very scholarly, and includes lots of fluff masquerading as scholarship."

reflects more of his ignorance about Logos than it does on Logos itself. Whether Logos could change his view is another question, particularly since it sounds more like he already made his decision without doing much research at all in developing it to begin with. Can such a person be convinced otherwise? I doubt it.

See also:

Posts 25
Brian Kane | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2010 12:58 AM

Comparing the current one with Windows may be a bit harsh, but maybe more like Adobe (due to the flatness).

Photorealistic would be cool, but it might end up looking like a Spotlight (or worse Sherlock) replacement. Maybe it just needs some more 3D to look a little more Mac-ish. Here's one several of us used for Logos 1.2 (adapted from an icon on the logos website).

Maybe drop a little of the glossy and puffiness.

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2010 8:07 AM

Brian Kane:
Maybe drop a little of the glossy and puffiness

 

No, don't change a thing. It is perfect! Where can I get it?

 

 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2010 1:19 PM

Brian Kane:

Comparing the current one with Windows may be a bit harsh, but maybe more like Adobe (due to the flatness).

Photorealistic would be cool, but it might end up looking like a Spotlight (or worse Sherlock) replacement. Maybe it just needs some more 3D to look a little more Mac-ish. Here's one several of us used for Logos 1.2 (adapted from an icon on the logos website).

[...] Maybe drop a little of the glossy and puffiness.

If you look carefully and compare the Adobe icons to the Logos icon it can be seen that the Adobe icons use subtle visual elements which, when they are added up, make them more visually strong.

  • the effect of light and shade, light coming from the top
  • the words (or for the Logos icon the cross and magnifying glass) have a 3-D effect done by having the main colour (pink or brown) be slightly lighter where it edges the letters

If the Logos icon had those it would definitely be better. Also I wonder if Logos is making high quality large icons like which Apple did for OS X.

The second icon is not really my style - it would have to be toned down a lot for my tastes Wink 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2010 1:21 PM

Ben:

Sorry for the massive thread-jack.

Apology accepted Stick out tongue because you did take it right off topic.

But it was an interesting and lively discussion.

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 505
Michael Kares | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 14 2010 3:43 PM

Devs,

 

Why not reuse the Iphone App Icon?  That has a very Mac-like feel.

Posts 102
Andrew Mercer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 14 2010 4:07 PM

 

MichaelKares:

Why not reuse the Iphone App Icon?  That has a very Mac-like feel.

+1

Posts 36
David Drew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 14 2010 6:39 PM

I don't think we should re-use the iphone logo. If you look at the different logos for iphone and mac, you'll see that the lighting angle is very different.

To make it properly 'mac-like', you definitely need to make it more 3d, like the Quicktime logo alongside it in the original post.

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 15 2010 12:21 PM

DavidDrew:

I don't think we should re-use the iphone logo. If you look at the different logos for iphone and mac, you'll see that the lighting angle is very different.

To make it properly 'mac-like', you definitely need to make it more 3d, like the Quicktime logo alongside it in the original post.

The original poster agrees Smile

If you look at the difference between these icons

 

and the Logos icon

it's not just the fact that the icon is 'flat' as I have said previously. But the fact that Mac icons are 'three dimensional' and also they aren't the typical boring Windows square icons but sit as objects on the dock. Look at the Pages icon in the first screenshot - world of difference.

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 82
Rob Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 18 2010 7:02 PM

Brian Kane:

Maybe drop a little of the glossy and puffiness.

where can i get that one from 1.2?

 

Posts 4
Jay Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 6:44 AM

Hasn't the knat been strained enough already?

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 6:54 AM

JayMooney:

Hasn't the knat been strained enough already?

But by replying to the post you just took it back to the top of the list again - should have left sleeping gnats lie Wink

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 4
Jay Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 7:18 AM

Patrick S.:

JayMooney:

Hasn't the knat been strained enough already?

But by replying to the post you just took it back to the top of the list again - should have left sleeping gnats lie Wink

Then your answer is "no?" Wink

Posts 2
Christopher Layton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 8:18 AM

I don't know how to make an icon file, and since I drew this one by hand I just had to make it a .png. But what about something more like this...

Posts 457
David Buckham | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 9:25 AM

ChristopherLayton,

LOVE IT!

all about Christ,

David Buckham

all about Christ,

David Buckham

http://thinkspurlove.blogspot.com

 

 

Posts 10886
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 10:25 AM

ChristopherLayton:

I don't know how to make an icon file, and since I drew this one by hand I just had to make it a .png. But what about something more like this...

 

Great Yes

Posts 100
Heath Choate | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 19 2010 8:33 PM

ChristopherLayton:

I don't know how to make an icon file, and since I drew this one by hand I just had to make it a .png. But what about something more like this...

 

I hope you don't mind but I just hoodwinked it. All you have to do to make it an icon is go to logos 4 in the finder, right click, and hit info and drag  it to the position of the current icon until you see the green + and drop

 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 20 2010 5:36 AM

ChristopherLayton:

I don't know how to make an icon file, and since I drew this one by hand I just had to make it a .png. But what about something more like this...

Thanks for sharing! Like it - the concept is v.good. If I could comment:

  • It would be good in following the Mac icon principle to have the background of book be transparent which would make it stand out on the dock. See example of 512x512 icon from the Mac dictionary app.
  • If Logos got a high quality icon file made then the potential of what is possible on the Mac could be very high. Compare it to the current Logos 4 icon below it (the 512x512 icon taken from the Logos 4 resource file).

To see the potential quality of icons in Mac OS have a look at this article (http://www.macworld.com/article/60877/2007/11/big105icons.html)

The example icon above is on the path, the icon has potential for textured rendering of the book, words on the page, shadows, shading etc. etc.

Why not have a beautiful icon to represent a great app. about a beautiful book?

 

 

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

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