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This post has 34 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Sep 4 2015 9:27 AM

I hope that the recent server downtime opens more eyes to the current flawed, server-dependent model of Faithlife's mobile apps. Many people (myself included) found that not only were all the server-dependent features not working during the server down time, but also all their downloaded resources suddenly disappeared. This is just one more reason why I have been saying for a long time now that the iOS apps need to not be so heavily dependent upon the Logos servers. My apps became instantly useless once the servers were down. The cloud is not dependable, please make the iOS apps more able to stand by themselves!

With all due respect, we loyal Faithlife users spend a lot of money on these resources with the expectation that they will be there when we need them. Knowing that at any given moment the servers could go down and all my downloaded resources could disappear is very disturbing. Not the best way to build confidence in the Faithlife brand, or to have peace of mind regarding the availability of my library and the features of Logos. My simple suggestion once again is that, if Faithlife moves away from the server-dependent model of the mobile apps, they can save themselves a lot of embarrassment when their servers do go down.

I've become so tired of waiting for Faithlife to make this move that I finally purchased a Windows tablet (even though I am a mac guy) which runs Windows 10 and the full Logos 6 wonderfully just so I could have a mobile Logos experience that wasn't so tied to the cloud and to Faithlife's servers. Every time I suggest that Logos make their mobile apps more independent from the servers they always say, "oh the mobile platforms can't handle this because of hardware limitations!" but yet a Microsoft tablet can handle it just fine. As I've been saying, the mobile hardware technology is advancing leaps and bounds. To say that mobile devices don't have the hardware to be independent from the Faithlife servers is just an excuse. I have it now on a cheap Windows tablet and it works great, so please don't tell me it's not possible.

Posts 7922
LogosEmployee

This is a bug we're actively fixing.

Posts 1881
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 12:26 PM

Tim,

I am in complete agreement with your assessment.

For one thing, the consistent recommendation on this forum is that people download as *few* resources as possible. If we follow that advice, then there is no expectation that we can access them when Faithlife has an outage.

Second, if you lost access to all your downloaded resources, then an acknowledged bug that I pointed out many months ago has either still not been fixed or has resurfaced. Faithlife has affirmed that this should not happen.

Third, this is at least the fourth outage since last fall, of varying severities, which has impacted our ability to use our resources ***AND*** the features that Faithlife touts as advantages of purchashing Logos resources.

Finally, and I'm probably alone in this, I have more than once said that I'd be willing to pay for a mobile app that has sufficient development resources and feature enhancements.

Donnie

Posts 506
Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 1:59 PM

After waiting all day, my iPhone app still shows that I only own 44 resources, and all my downloaded resources are gone. Hmm

Posts 411
George | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 2:08 PM

Same story with the Android app.

Posts 406
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 3:06 PM

Yes, on my iPad as of now, I can't access any of the resources I actually own. My library lists 987 resources, mainly in Spanish, none of which I actually own.  

Yes, the iOS apps are way too dependent on the FL servers. I'm sure that my iPad Air 2 could handle doing a passage guide or an exegetical guide on its own. That's all I'd want. 

Oh yeah, I turned off WiFi. The only two resources left on my Verbum iPad app are the Douay-Rheims Bible and the Catholic Lectionary. Not good.  

Oddly enough, my Android tablet didn't lose any resources. Weird.

Posts 638
Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 3:20 PM
Logos, please make the IOS app able to function WITHOUT Logos servers. I lost many books today.  This has happened in the past and I'm growing tired.    In Christ!
Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 3:26 PM

For those of you with missing resources, please sync the app (press the Home button on your iOS device and open the app again) - do the correct number of resources now appear in the Library?

Posts 2
Regis C | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 3:31 PM

To Logos team:

I am having problem with my library too. Just 44 resources available. Please find a way that I can use the iPad app even if your servers are down, of course I would have only the downloadded resources available but that would be OK. Every time this happens I can't use the app and I have to re-download my resources again. Not a pleasant experience and not the first time that happens.

Thanks!

Posts 638
Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 3:37 PM

Kevin B.,

Yes, the app is displaying correct # of resources. But many books will have to be downloaded again.

Posts 46
Dean J. Ferguson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 3:50 PM
I think that I am experiencing Pentecost! Not only is my downloaded books gone (except my trusty ESV), my history is not functioning, but I also have a new library in SPANISH? It has been 50 years since I studied Spanish. I guess I will need to get started. Oh, this is happening on my Galaxy tablet.
Posts 406
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 3:51 PM

Yes, my library is now displaying the correct resources (number and kind). The ones I had downloaded are downloading again. Oddly enough, no resources were removed from my Android tablet. 

Posts 27269
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 5:00 PM

Donnie Hale:
the consistent recommendation on this forum is that people download as *few* resources as possible. If we follow that advice, then there is no expectation that we can access them when Faithlife has an outage.

You are correct. I still, however, advise to be judicious in downloads. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 411
George | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 5:04 PM

alabama24:

Donnie Hale:
the consistent recommendation on this forum is that people download as *few* resources as possible. If we follow that advice, then there is no expectation that we can access them when Faithlife has an outage.

You are correct. I still, however, advise to be judicious in downloads. 

Even better, make the product work as advertised!

Posts 132
Bill Stevener | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 6:36 PM

A sad situation, indeed. Resources not downloaded were not available because the servers were down (understandable), but even resources you might have downloaded to have available at all times, with or without the servers, were also not available because of a flaw in the Faithlife server system which effectively erased from user devices resources they had downloaded. Not a good time to be a Faithlife customer.

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 6:41 PM

alabama24:

You are correct. I still, however, advise to be judicious in downloads. 

Alabama, Do you have any sound baisc for that advise?

In my view the app needs to work correctly with 5,000 or 10,000 titles if I want to download them all and devote that much of the memory for that purpose.

Many users have librarys well over 10,000 titles and expect the tools to just work. Why should we NOT expect the spftware to cope, subject to memory limits?

Regards,

Jim

Posts 2775
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 6:57 PM

JimTowler:

In my view the app needs to work correctly with 5,000 or 10,000 titles if I want to download them all and devote that much of the memory for that purpose.

Many users have librarys well over 10,000 titles and expect the tools to just work. Why should we NOT expect the spftware to cope, subject to memory limits?

YesYes

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 27269
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 7:06 PM

JimTowler:
Alabama, Do you have any sound baisc for that advise?

I am not interested in debating what "should" be. I am not interested in debating what "would be nice" to have. My advice is solely based upon years of beta testing, using the app, and helping users in the forums.

I get tired of answering the same question over and over, but because you asked so nicely... Smile

  1. FL employees suggest being judicious. (fwiw - I was suggesting this before they did so publicly).
  2. Sometimes the best fix for the app is to perform a fresh install. This is no big deal when you have a few downloaded resources. It is a HUGE deal when you have to redownload thousands of books. Not only is there a considerable amount of bandwidth and time required, but sometimes glitches occur when the download process is interrupted. Guess what the best fix is for that? (Hint: Reinstall). 
  3. When a user reinstalls the app, resources typically start to download again. If the user isn't prepared to allow the massive download, a corruption might occur requiring a reinstall. 
  4. Problems can occur when resources aren't up to date. Resources "in the cloud" are automatically "up to date." Downloaded resources must be redownloaded... but sometimes the mobile app has difficulties keeping the downloaded resources up to date. This may cause troubles with highlights "shifting" or otherwise being out of sync...  a reinstall might be required. 
  5. Sometimes iOS has difficulties releasing space. This is an iOS issue, not a Logos one. This is perhaps the most critical issue. Imagine that you have 5GB of downloaded resources and a fresh install is required. Now imagine that when you delete the app, you have to redownload the 5GB of data, but the previous 5GB is still unavailable and the ONLY fix is to wipe the device completely (All apps, complete fresh install of iOS). This has happened to me twice. I have no idea if this issue will appear again for users or not... I place the trouble with iOS and I think the issue is likely rare... but I am not sure. 

If none of that persuades you, be my guest. I am not trying to be the "download nazi," just trying to provide helpful advice. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 928
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 7:19 PM

Kevin Byford (Faithlife):
For those of you with missing resources, please sync the app (press the Home button on your iOS device and open the app again) - do the correct number of resources now appear in the Library?

Kevin, my resources are still missing (Android phone), but when I went to Downloads under Home, it showed I had 159 books that needed downloaded. The list seems to correspond to what had previously been there. I am working on downloading them now. Very happy that I do not need to manually identify what all books I had already downloaded, as the app (server?) seems to have kept track of it for me.

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 7:26 PM

Alabama,

Thanks for taking the time to answer, however:

Point 2A, 2B, 3, 4 and 5 are just software bugs that users should expect will be fixed.

I also encourage you to please not use "nazi" in that way.

I dont consider that software should require users to "delete the app", or "reinstall windows" or "factory reset your device". Thats just bad code, poor software or techs that cant get to the bottom of the real issue.

Lets not even call it a bug. Its a defect in the product or service. Ask Bob about his free book "Fire Someone Today".

Regards,

Jim

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