Flawed Boolean Logic in Logos 6

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Posts 251
Rod Bergen | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Sep 4 2015 1:36 PM

Is boolean logic searching properly implemented in Logos 6?

Here are two searches which should produce the same results:

1. (Arius OR arianism) WITHIN 5 WORDS (writing* OR manuscript* OR literature)

2. (Arius WITHIN 5 WORDS (writing* OR manuscript* OR literature)) OR (arianism WITHIN 5 WORDS (writing* OR manuscript* OR literature))

But they don't.  The first generates 980 results while the second search produces 698 results.

I am used to searching in a professional search database where boolean logic is properly implemented (and in which the above search would work).

This is where a lack of a proper manual is very frustrating.

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 1:43 PM

I agree.

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Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 2:08 PM

What happens if you replace the OR inside parentheses with "," as per https://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help#Using_lists 

Posts 251
Rod Bergen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 2:36 PM

Graham Criddle:
What happens if you replace the OR inside parentheses with "," as per https://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help#Using_lists

(Arius,  arianism) WITHIN 5 WORDS (writing*, manuscript*, literature) - 114 results.

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Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 4 2015 4:00 PM

Yes, fewer results without the search parameter "WORDS" being included!

Boolean terms do not work with Proximity terms, so the (list, next word, ...) has to be used where you think OR can be used.

If you are thinking about AND, use the implicit AND of proximity e.g.

  meaning WITHIN 6 WORDS inconsistent WITHIN 10 WORDS expression

rather than

 (meaning AND expression) WITHIN 10 WORDS inconsistent

Dave
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Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 251
Rod Bergen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 5 2015 7:45 AM

Dave Hooton:
 Yes, fewer results without the search parameter "WORDS" being included!

Boolean terms do not work with Proximity terms, so the (list, next word, ...) has to be used where you think OR can be used.

If you are thinking about AND, use the implicit AND of proximity e.g.

  meaning WITHIN 6 WORDS inconsistent WITHIN 10 WORDS expression

rather than

 (meaning AND expression) WITHIN 10 WORDS inconsistent

So what you are effectively saying is that parentheses are useless in Logos 6?

I'm not sure that I understand what you are getting at with your expression - "meaning WITHIN 6 WORDS inconsistent WITHIN 10 WORDS expression"

Can you take the search that I posted above and express it in a way that works?

Straight AND searches are almost useless given the size of most of the books that are being searched.  The use of proximity searches is almost mandatory.  So having proximity searches crippled is a very limiting feature of Logos 6.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 5 2015 8:26 AM

Not Dave but my thoughts

Taxee:
So what you are effectively saying is that parentheses are useless in Logos 6?

No - but they don't function as one might expect if thinking about them in Boolean Logic terms. They are used to denote lists of terms.

Taxee:
I'm not sure that I understand what you are getting at with your expression - "meaning WITHIN 6 WORDS inconsistent WITHIN 10 WORDS expression"

Dave is saying that the way to search for proximity is to treat each term separately so "find where meaning is within 6 words of inconsistent which is also within ten words of expression"

Taxee:

Straight AND searches are almost useless given the size of most of the books that are being searched.  The use of proximity searches is almost mandatory.

Agreed

Taxee:
Can you take the search that I posted above and express it in a way that works?

I'll have a go at that in a separate reply

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 5 2015 8:33 AM

Taxee:
Can you take the search that I posted above and express it in a way that works?

I think - from your example and explanation - you are trying to find where either of "Arius" or "arianism" are within 5 words of "writing" or "manuscript" or "literature". Is that correct? (I'm ignoring the wildcard terms as I don't think that's the issue here)

If so, then, following my suggestion above I get the string you showed a few posts earlier

(Arius,  arianism) WITHIN 5 WORDS (writing, manuscript, literature)

This gives me 46 results which all seem to match the criteria.

If I separate them out - doing the search for "Arius" separately from the search for "arianism" I get 28 and 18 results respectively which suggests that the complete term is working correctly.

This seems to be working - do you see any issues?

Posts 9147
LogosEmployee

In the current query parser, "OR" and "," are not synonymous; only "," can be used within the operands of proximity operators. We have a case in our bug tracking system to relax this restriction, so the first query you wanted to write will work as expected. I've added a link from that case to this thread.

Posts 251
Rod Bergen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 6 2015 6:48 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
 In the current query parser, "OR" and "," are not synonymous; only "," can be used within the operands of proximity operators. We have a case in our bug tracking system to relax this restriction, so the first query you wanted to write will work as expected. I've added a link from that case to this thread. 

Thanks, Bradley.


Posts 3623
LogosEmployee
Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 25 2016 10:52 AM

Taxee:

Is boolean logic searching properly implemented in Logos 6?

Here are two searches which should produce the same results:

1. (Arius OR arianism) WITHIN 5 WORDS (writing* OR manuscript* OR literature)

2. (Arius WITHIN 5 WORDS (writing* OR manuscript* OR literature)) OR (arianism WITHIN 5 WORDS (writing* OR manuscript* OR literature))

But they don't.  The first generates 980 results while the second search produces 698 results.

I am used to searching in a professional search database where boolean logic is properly implemented (and in which the above search would work).

This is where a lack of a proper manual is very frustrating.

This is now fixed in 6.14 Beta 2

Posts 251
Rod Bergen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 26 2016 10:39 AM

Philana R. Crouch:
This is now fixed in 6.14 Beta 2

Thank you!  For those of us who are used to search engines that use full Boolean logic, this will provide significantly more flexibility when searching.

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