Payment Plans and you

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This post has 134 Replies | 16 Followers

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 4:39 AM

I have to think if I was in Bob's seat seeing the growing income every month coming in from Logos Now and subscription-based transactions, it would make the purchase-transactions model still welcome but less palatable for multiple reasons - evening out cash flow (explained to us at the intro of Logos Now), and needing to manage the somewhat hidden but possibly substantial expense of deferred money payments on purchases (explained to us in this thread). I imagine people live within their means a little better too on subscription model vs. buy/pay over time. 

Posts 2851
Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 4:53 AM

thanks Joseph

Posts 912
David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 6:24 AM

Dan Pritchett:

Michael Childs:
Large purchases will have to slow down and be delayed until the 25% down payment  can be saved. 

Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well.

The added bonus to using Logos Book Cache is that they are saving the $5/mo. payment plan fee every month.

It won't solve everyone's issues, but for those who aren't sure what they will buy in the future, but know they are going to spend a set amount, they can start a Logos Book Cache subscription now, avoid the $5/mo. payment plan fee and be well ahead of the game when they find the next title they want.

https://www.logos.com/book-cache

A better practice would be to put it in the bank in a savings account or invest it in any other way (which I am sure is what Logos does with the money you deposit).

Posts 1576
Forum MVP
Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 7:07 AM

David Knoll:
A better practice would be to put it in the bank in a savings account or invest it in any other way (which I am sure is what Logos does with the money you deposit).

👍🏼 

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 9:02 AM

Cynthia Tucker:

Bob, two questions:

1. How does this work if I have a Logos credit that equals the 25% purchase price? Could I use that or would I still have to pay it out of my own funds?

2. Does the 25% have to be paid on the day you make the order, or is it just the first payment the following month?

Cynthia, I'm not actually sure of these details -- Dan (my brother) is rolling out the changes with the sales team and the 'Commerce Team' that manages the web site (and which is changing, though a little slower, as we have to re-code things). I believe that credit can be treated as cash in most scenarios, meaning you could use it for the 25%, but I'm not certain. And we'll still be tweaking details / making changes for a little while. I'll make sure Dan hears about this issue, though.

Posts 1690
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 9:05 AM

David Paul:
Logos may need to play hardball with the publishers.

If only we could! :-)

Our publishing partners are generally fantastic, and we're working with them to find ways to smooth out cash flow. We are making some progress with a few, and this will help.

In a perfect world, we'd share with them on a pure 'percentage of revenue' model, which would let us sell more products by subscription, rent-to-own, payment plans, and other models. But they have their own contracts, some of which date back decades, with authors, and are understandably reluctant to go renegotiate terms. And the scale just gets huge: we have more than 500 rights holders we have contracts with (that's a lot of phone calls to make and explanations to walk through!) and they represent more than 60,000 different books (almost each of which has its own contract).

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 9:37 AM

Bob Pritchett:
In a perfect world, we'd share with them on a pure 'percentage of revenue' model, which would let us sell more products by subscription, rent-to-own, payment plans, and other models. But they have their own contracts, some of which date back decades, with authors, and are understandably reluctant to go renegotiate terms. And the scale just gets huge: we have more than 500 rights holders we have contracts with (that's a lot of phone calls to make and explanations to walk through!) and they represent more than 60,000 different books (almost each of which has its own contract).

As perceived (with much prayer and new eyes) your timely response to questions and inquiries are greatly appreciated. Improvement of communications could only help customers to understand better-- changes and accept what must be, for the benefit of all. Thank you, Bob. 

Posts 2825
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 1:18 PM

Dan said, "Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well."

I certainly think Dan has a good suggestion in using Logos cache, or as someone else suggested, save up in the bank and draw a bit of interest.

However, regardless of how one saves up the 25%, one still will have to take time to save.  There will be a slowdown in the pace of sales due to taking time to save the 25%  Of course, that slowdown will hopefully more than be offset by the increase in the pace of payment.  Only time will show if decreasing the rate of sales, but increasing the pace of payment by requiring 25% up front will ultimately increase or decrease the income for Faithlife / Logos.

I am sure Logos has weighed these things in their decision, but things do not always work out in real life as the do on paper.  I suspect some sales will be lost in the time to raise the 25%. 

For example, I just recently made a large Logos purchase (large for me) of the "Father's of the Church" series.  I am delighted that I did, but I would have never made the purchase if I had to put 25% down.  Perhaps that would have been better for Logos / Faithlife as I am now making a low payment each month that causes me no stress, but delays FL getting their money.

There may not be many others in my position, but I suspect there are.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 353
Virgil Buttram | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 2:07 PM

Michael Childs:

Dan said, "Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well."

I certainly think Dan has a good suggestion in using Logos cache, or as someone else suggested, save up in the bank and draw a bit of interest.

However, regardless of how one saves up the 25%, one still will have to take time to save.  There will be a slowdown in the pace of sales due to taking time to save the 25%  Of course, that slowdown will hopefully more than be offset by the increase in the pace of payment.  Only time will show if decreasing the rate of sales, but increasing the pace of payment by requiring 25% up front will ultimately increase or decrease the income for Faithlife / Logos.

I am sure Logos has weighed these things in their decision, but things do not always work out in real life as the do on paper.  I suspect some sales will be lost in the time to raise the 25%. 

For example, I just recently made a large Logos purchase (large for me) of the "Father's of the Church" series.  I am delighted that I did, but I would have never made the purchase if I had to put 25% down.  Perhaps that would have been better for Logos / Faithlife as I am now making a low payment each month that causes me no stress, but delays FL getting their money.

There may not be many others in my position, but I suspect there are.

A slowdown in current sales, perhaps, but as those sales would not have resulted in current revenues, Faithlife will not likely experience any reduction in revenues. However, they will experience a reduction in payments to publishers. In the net, little to no change in current income and a measurable reduction in outgo.

Posts 38
LogosEmployee
Don | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 3:19 PM

GregW:

Dan Pritchett:

Many book lovers that discover they're spending the same book budget amount on Logos books each year will find that using Logos Book Cache is the answer, to not only the Pre-Pub problem of having cash up front, but will also find it solves this 25% down payment issue as well.

The added bonus to using Logos Book Cache is that they are saving the $5/mo. payment plan fee every month.

It won't solve everyone's issues, but for those who aren't sure what they will buy in the future, but know they are going to spend a set amount, they can start a Logos Book Cache subscription now, avoid the $5/mo. payment plan fee and be well ahead of the game when they find the next title they want.

https://www.logos.com/book-cache

I recently let my payment plan stop when it was paid off as I didn't feel it was the best way for me to manage my purchases, but when I try setting up Book Cache in my profile, I can't find anywhere there to do it. I'd love to be able to set it up, and vary the payment when I want to without having to call/email Logos. I'm UK-based, so having a payment plan for me introduces currency risk, and it is in my interest to accumulate credit when Sterling is strong, but not when the dollar is stronger. It's also a pain from here (even with the dedicated UK number) to have to call. Is there an easy way to set up Cook Cache online? 

Greg,

I emailed you but a book cache subscription can be added to your account at the link below. 

https://www.logos.com/product/33666/book-cache-monthly-subscription 

Posts 5250
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 3:58 PM

Don:

I was slightly hesitant to add this in till my current payment plan was through but decided that It was a good thing to start up a small monthly charge to save up for possible larger purchases. Thank you for the link.

-Dan

Posts 824
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2015 4:05 PM

Don:

Greg,

I emailed you but a book cache subscription can be added to your account at the link below. 

https://www.logos.com/product/33666/book-cache-monthly-subscription 

Thank you!


Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5

Posts 6412
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 3:56 AM

So...we need an official response, please! If we add anything else to a 27 month plan: will the plan shrink to 12 months? If so, what's the rationale behind it? (since we're already required to give a 25% down). Thanks Bro. Bob or Dan for the official response on this payment plan shrinking issue :)

DAL

Posts 5025
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 4:23 AM

Still have not received an email about this....as usual Logos dribbles out half baked information to some users and not others who only find out about this stuff if they happen to stumble upon it on the forums.  Can we please get this properly communicated to all users currently on a payment plan and not just to some.  I don't' think that is too much too ask.

I see one comment the email is suggesting new payment plans will be for 12 months max.  Is this correct ? Got no issues with Logos making decisions they need to for good of business but in twelve months time it is going to impact uptake of things products like Logos 7 Collectors edition assuming it exists and given sales staff rely on commission with users make less larger purchases it is going to impact upon sales staff and the their families as they won't be brining in nearly as much commission. Rather than seeing an end to sales staff send out unsolicited offers will this actually mean they send out more offers to a wider range of customers to try and get back that commission they are going to loose as a result of this change ?

Posts 6412
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 4:30 AM

I never received the dreaded email either. Time to add a chapter on effective communication to that "Start Next Now" book...LOL ✍😜😇

DAL

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 6:10 AM

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Still have not received an email about this....as usual Logos dribbles out half baked information to some users and not others who only find out about this stuff if they happen to stumble upon it on the forums.  Can we please get this properly communicated to all users currently on a payment plan and not just to some.  I don't' think that is too much too ask. 

This is one of Faithlife's short comings. I hope they will improve in this area sooner rather than later. There should be a thread or a message directly from Bob or his appointed spokesperson to all Logos users of official changes or adjustments.  Communication is the key to any relationship. Failure to communicate leads to misunderstand. In Faithlife situation, a lack of communications can lead to a lost of business and sales. 

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 12:45 PM

Charles McNeil:

Disciple of Christ (doc):

Still have not received an email about this....as usual Logos dribbles out half baked information to some users and not others who only find out about this stuff if they happen to stumble upon it on the forums.  Can we please get this properly communicated to all users currently on a payment plan and not just to some.  I don't' think that is too much too ask. 

This is one of Faithlife's short comings. I hope they will improve in this area sooner rather than later. There should be a thread or a message directly from Bob or his appointed spokesperson to all Logos users of official changes or adjustments.  Communication is the key to any relationship. Failure to communicate leads to misunderstand. In Faithlife situation, a lack of communications can lead to a lost of business and sales. 



Yes! :)

Agreed on all counts. If you have to make the changes - fine. But let us know that its coming next quarter, or whenever rather than "hey... by the way, at the end of the weekend every things changing".

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 272
LogosEmployee
Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 4:29 PM

We’ve updated our Payment Plan program and wanted to clearly explain the changes we have made and how they will impact you.

We have not made any changes your existing payment plan(s), and won't, unless you request them.

This week we’ve rolled out changes that impact new orders placed using our Payment Plan program. 

  • All new orders placed using our Payment Plan program will require a minimum downpayment: 25% of the order total or $500, whichever is less.  
  • The downpayment will be due at the time the order is placed.
  • We have changed the length of the payment plans we offer, they now range from 2 to 20 months. 
  • A $100 minimum order is still required to be eligible for payment plans.

You can read more about our Payment Plan program here:  https://www.logos.com/faq#PaymentPlans

We've also updated how payment plans can be combined. You have two options.

  • Create an additional payment plan
    • Purchase new books, put at least 25% of today’s purchase price on your credit card (or $500, whichever is less), along with the $5 payment plan fee

    • Pay the remaining balance over the months allowed, based on the size of your purchase.

    • This new payment plan stands on its own. If your purchase allows a 6 month plan, it will be a new payment plan for 6 months with its own payment plan fee. If you already had one, two, three, or more other payment plans in place, they will all be unaffected by this new plan, and will stack up, all with their own balances, due dates, and individual fees.

    • If you prefer, we can organize your multiple plans so that they are all charged on the same day of the month, but they will still appear as separate charges on your credit card whether on the same day or not.

  • Add the balance to an existing payment plan
    • Purchase new books, put at least 25% of today’s purchase price on your credit card (or $500, whichever is less)

    • Pay the remaining combined balance over the months allowed, based on the size of your purchase. Note:  If the length of your existing plan is greater than 12 months, the length of your new combined plan will be either the number of months allowed with your new purchase, or 12 months, whichever is greater.

    • This addition, or combining of payment plans, allows you to only be charged one $5 payment plan fee per month, and consolidates your balance so your credit card is only charged once per month.

    • For accounting purposes please note—the 25% “down” on any combined payment plan goes to pay off your oldest balance first, and is not a payment on the specific title(s) in your new purchase.

Posts 57
James | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 22 2015 11:35 AM

Most of these changes I can understand why they need to be implemented from a business perspective. There is one change however that I fail to see a sensible explanation for that Glenn has made above;

Glenn Airoldi:
Pay the remaining combined balance over the months allowed, based on the size of your purchase. Note:  If the length of your existing plan is greater than 12 months, the length of your new combined plan will be either the number of months allowed with your new purchase, or 12 months, whichever is greater.

Can you tell me why my 27 month plan will be cut down to 12 months for adding something to my plan? This has forced me to cancel all of my pre-orders. Really I am so annoyed beyond description about the fact I received no email or notification about this and now I have to miss out on the long awaited TDOT @ $399 pre-pub price. Do you want to know how I found out about these changes?

Me: Hi, I'd like to add Church Dogmatics to my payment plan.

Sales Rep: Sorry, we have made changes to our payment plans now. You need to pay 25% up front and your existing plan will be cut down to 12 months.

Really you guys could have at least made this effective as of 1st of Jan 2016 or something. I will have to skip on all Christmas/Black Friday specials now too.

Logos 6 Gold, Logos 7 Reformed Diamond 

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Posts 57
James | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 22 2015 12:34 PM

Bob Pritchett - considering the circumstances in which these changes were rolled out (poor communication and, IMO, bad timing being close to Christmas), is there any way this can be held off until the start of next year?

Logos 6 Gold, Logos 7 Reformed Diamond 

Alienware R2 17  i7-4720HQ 3.6GHz 16GB RAM 1TB HDD 256GB SSD GTX970 3GB DDR5

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