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Posts 237
C M | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 23 2015 2:44 PM

Logos Users,

If one is considering investing in the top level of Logos Bible Software, very soon, what hardware would you recommend? Please be specific as possible. The more details the better. Please tell me what equipments are good, better and best? Any not technical examples will be helpful.

If this information existed somewhere, indulge me with the simplified facts along with the post, thread and/or email address.

Your help will be greatly appreciated!

Posts 467
Dave Moser | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 2:51 PM

As a Logos user of about 5 years there are two things that have a dramatic impact on my workflow: a solid state drive (SSD) and more pixels:

  • Having a SSD radically improves indexing and search speed.
  • Having more pixels (dual monitors in my case) allows me to have my sermon open in one pane and Logos panels open alongside. (This will probably be important for you if you're the kind of person who keeps a lot of browser tabs open.)

You're in luck because Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals on both of those things are probably going to be all over the place in the next week!

Posts 2784
Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 3:29 PM

This recent thread may give you some ideas.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/119262.aspx

Posts 1271
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 3:31 PM

Get an Apple - see specific technical reasons but note that it is also a 'religious' decision;)

SSD Specifics

There is a good technical reason though... Mac SSDs use dual channel pcie which enables them to be up to 4 times quicker than sata onces in PCs. (Last time I checked iMac has the slower kind though, for the faster kind you want a mac laptop or mac pro)

SSD with a ton of storage space because Logos is huge. I have a 500gb drive with only 92gb free although there are a lot of films on here too. I think Logos is about 40gb in size on my machine. Realistically you are going to need at least 250gb but you'll kick yourself later for not getting 500gb.

Screen size specifics

On a laptop 15inch is minimum for comfort IMHO. I usually use 2 screens and often 3. It's like having a lot of books out on the table etc. You can work with smaller screens but comfortable use is with a big screen. Seriously consider a dual screen configuration.

Chair

You need a really comfortable chair because you are going to do a lot of Bible study! Don't spend all your time on the chair though... get down on your knees and pray! I have a great computer and terrible chair, my back hurts right now;)

Read aloud

If you are likely to want to listen to the books you should get a mac because the voices are built into the system and there is no comparison. The apple voices are far more natural and can be listened to comfortably for far longer.

Logos

IMHO if you are going to get a huge Logos package then spend a long time studying the list of included resources. For my purposes the most expensive package would have left me without a lot of things I needed. It was necessary for me to stack together several cheaper packages and additional resources (I have 4 platinum, anglican 6 bronze, reformed something, verbum something, word commentaries and so on. A fair few people have expressed disappointment on here because they didn't realize what they were buying or not buying.

Memory

I run with 16gb of RAM I find that it is more than enough. I think that 8gb is enough based on monitoring usage. Logos itself tends to live within about 1.1gb of ram with a lot of books open. Firefox for example uses about the same. If you have several big apps open at once then 8gb is a good bet.

CPU

I have an i7 quad core and it barely gets excited by Logos. I think most any modern CPU will be adequate. 

For comparison my mum uses a core 2 duo macbook with 4gigs of ram and a SATA based SSD. It works very well. But the screen at 13inches annoys me. She has a bronze library.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1597
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 3:42 PM

Yes to SSD, and as much real estate as possible. (I have a 27" iMac, and a 24" Dell in portrait next to it.)

"Last time I checked iMac has the slower kind though, for the faster kind you want a mac laptop or mac pro"

If you opt for the standard "Fusion drive" (which has both a SSD and traditional HD), that's true. Choose a more expensive non-Fusion SSD drive, and you get the higher speeds. 

If that's out of the budget, bump up to the 2Tb Fusion drive. There's now a significant difference in the size of the SSD depending on the Fusion size. Only the 2Tb gets the 128Gb SSD.

Hope that's not too confusing. 

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 13428
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 3:52 PM

Charles McNeil:
If one is considering investing in the top level of Logos Bible Software, very soon, what hardware would you recommend? Please be specific as possible. The more details the better. Please tell me what equipments are good, better and best? Any not technical examples will be helpful.

It does depend on what else you use the system for, but my personal recommendation would be for a system that will run Logos smoothly is:

  1. A 512Gb+ SSD (Fusion/hybrid drives are a poor man's SSD. Don't buy one unless your budget is tight, or unless it's a second drive.)
  2. A fifth-generation i5 or i7 processor
  3. At least 8Gb RAM
  4. Dual monitor set up

Within each category there are obviously more specific recommendations we could make. But unless you're going to build your own PC, it's not worth being more specific. If you are going to build your own PC then please let us know.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

Posts 838
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 4:05 PM

FWIW:  I am anxious to see if the new generation of UHD monitors (4k resolution and above) help old, tired eyes.  27"/28" sizes are still a tad expensive - in the $480+ range - but I would expect them to begin to drop substantially after the Christmas holidays.

FWIW2:  Caveat Emptor re: cheap, inexpensive TLC SSDs ... http://www.pcworld.com/article/2998497/storage/tlc-nand-ssds-the-crippling-problem-storage-makers-dont-advertise.html

JRS has left the building.

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 4:13 PM

At the risk of complicating the conversation, it's worth making a distinction between OS X's Fusion Drive feature and the hybrid drives available from, for example, Seagate. Hybrid drives include a small amount of solid-state memory (something on the order of 8 GB) as a cache to speed up only the most frequently accessed files. That's pretty much only going to hold OS files, and only a portion at that—I highly doubt that any program files will make the cut.

Apple's Fusion Drive uses two different drives, one SSD and one HDD, and the SSD is actually a reasonable size (256 GB I think, though it may be 128). OS X doesn't treat it as a cache, but as a true array. While a 1 TB hybrid drive with an 8 GB solid state section will only provide 1 TB of storage, a Fusion Drive consisting of a 256GB SSD and a 1 TB HDD will result in 1.25 TB of space. And there's a lot more that can fit on the SSD. The OS prioritizes based on frequency of use, so if you're a heavy Logos user I expect that at least your most frequently used resources will work at SSD speeds.

The upshot is that Fusion Drive is actually a pretty big advance over just a hard drive. A hybrid drive... not so much. Pure SSDs are obviously better, but unless price is no object I'd recommend the Fusion Drive.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 10:43 PM

JRS:
FWIW:  I am anxious to see if the new generation of UHD monitors (4k resolution and above) help old, tired eyes.  27"/28" sizes are still a tad expensive - in the $480+ range - but I would expect them to begin to drop substantially after the Christmas holidays.

Black Friday has 42" 4K Seiki TV for $ 309.99 (2015 model), which is 50 % larger than 28" that helps older eyes.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 13428
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 24 2015 2:09 AM

Mitchell:
Apple's Fusion Drive uses two different drives, one SSD and one HDD, and the SSD is actually a reasonable size (256 GB I think, though it may be 128).

I agree Fusion drives are better than Hybrid drives. No Fusion drives have 256Gb, Most have 128GB, but Apple have reduced it to just 24GB for the latest 1TB model: http://9to5mac.com/2015/10/13/retina-imac-fusion-drive-flash-lol-are-you-serious/

From a PC perspective they're still a poor substitute for proper SSD drives, not least because 128Gb is too small to be really useful for many users. By the time you have the OS, swap file and hibernation file, it doesn't leave much room for programs or data. And from a Logos perspective, I would imagine a Fusion drive will cache the program and main index and favourite resources, but there are thousands of other files that you'll access much less frequently — 'random' resources that show up in search results, for example — that will never get cached.

Fusion drives (or Intel's equivalent, RST) are much, much better than ordinary HDD, and I agree that apart from the new 1TB model they're significantly better than Seagate's hybrid drives.

But remember I'm speaking from a PC perspective. On PCs you can buy a proper 256Gb SSD for not much more than $75. The upgrade from 1TB standard to 1TB Fusion costs $100 on an iMac. ($100 for 24GB!) I know which I'd prefer, and I know which will give the better performance.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

Posts 4165
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 24 2015 5:58 AM

Dave Moser:

As a Logos user of about 5 years there are two things that have a dramatic impact on my workflow: a solid state drive (SSD) and more pixels:

  • Having a SSD radically improves indexing and search speed.
  • Having more pixels (dual monitors in my case) allows me to have my sermon open in one pane and Logos panels open alongside. (This will probably be important for you if you're the kind of person who keeps a lot of browser tabs open.)

You're in luck because Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals on both of those things are probably going to be all over the place in the next week!



If you can afford the 10k pricetag on Collectors, you should consider a three matched monitor set up, or two matched sized monitors with a bigger one in the middle. Get the higher resolution ones though if you can. at a minimum 1920 x 1080, but 4k is better (and much more expensive).

I have a variety of displays (3 24", 2 32 inch, and a 48"), and the ones I use most are the 2 of 24's and one of the 32s. I put a 24 on each side of the 32, with my paper on the big display, and resources on either side.

the big tv is usually only on when I'm streaming video, and the third 24 is over by my bed for use at night in conjunction with a wireless keyboard and mouse.

The three display set up is absolutely my favorite. The others get some use, and if they hadn't been either given to me, or otherwise accumulated inexpensively over the last few years I probably wouldn't have them.

As to the SSD discussion, Newegg had re-certified 480gb ssd's for 129$ the other day. I had it in my cart, and my laptop battery died. So in the long run I decided against it - for now. But who knows on black friday.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 283
Greg Corbin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 25 2015 6:01 PM

Charles,  I agree with the comment that advised you to look at what you really need - will use the program for.  For instance, are you a pastor primarily using Logos to prepare sermons?  Do you work in the original languages?  How much time will you practically spend using Logos?  Are you willing to invest the time to learn the best features and nuances of the program?  Having the 5000 resources that come in Collectors will do you very little good if you only use the program a few minutes per day or if you only read the Bible and consult a few commentaries. 

Once you have answered these questions, then I would advise you to look very closely at exactly the resources you get at the different package level. In my opinion, the best value hands down is to get the base packages at least up through Gold. After that, then you begin to accumulate large amounts of resources, but they might not be key resources you need or the best resources. Some will be good to have but they aren't the best. 

For instance, I am a pastor who uses Logos probably at least 20 hours per week for sermon prep, personal devotion, and theological reading. Even if I had bought the Collector's package, I still would not have had the Word Biblical Commentaries or the NICOT/NICNT set or the Tyndale commentaries. Those are generally considered to be three of the best commentary resources for pastors. In addition, I would not have had the two best Bible dictionaries out there - ISBE and the IVP Dictionaries, which are near universally acclaimed. I would not have had some of the best systematic theologies - Grudem and Erickson. All of these resources I have mentioned are pretty well essential resources for the serious evangelical pastor and do not appear in any base package. 

All of this being said, I am incredibly grateful for FaithLife and Logos. I highly recommend it to everyone. However, if you are going to invest the type of dollars you are talking about, then I would urge you to do your homework and chose wisely. Yes a big library is impressive and it is valuable in terms of searching, etc. A big library is wonderful for discovering "hidden gems" and books that you would never have bought individually. However, there will be a core set of "go to" resources that you will depend on over and over again. Just make sure you have those in place if you are going to spend that much money. 

Posts 1271
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2015 7:47 AM

Greg Corbin:
Even if I had bought the Collector's package, I still would not have had the Word Biblical Commentaries or the NICOT/NICNT set or the Tyndale commentaries. Those are generally considered to be three of the best commentary resources for pastors. In addition, I would not have had the two best Bible dictionaries out there - ISBE and the IVP Dictionaries, which are near universally acclaimed. I would not have had some of the best systematic theologies - Grudem and Erickson.

Exactly! Collectors is a great package and I've spent enough on other content that it would be less than half price for me. The reason I've never bought it is because there is a lot else which I considered essential and far higher priority.

I would add to this list the Master Journal Bundle and depending on your prior learning the Hebrew and Greek Mobile Ed. because it will teach you a lot about what the software can do too!

IMHO the best buying strategy is to pick up several large base packages plus extras rather than one enormous one.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 237
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2015 8:40 AM

John Goodman:

Greg Corbin:
Even if I had bought the Collector's package, I still would not have had the Word Biblical Commentaries or the NICOT/NICNT set or the Tyndale commentaries. Those are generally considered to be three of the best commentary resources for pastors. In addition, I would not have had the two best Bible dictionaries out there - ISBE and the IVP Dictionaries, which are near universally acclaimed. I would not have had some of the best systematic theologies - Grudem and Erickson.

Exactly! Collectors is a great package and I've spent enough on other content that it would be less than half price for me. The reason I've never boughtit is because there is a lot else which I considered essential and far higher priority. 

Thanks John, sound advice as usual. You and Greg gave most helpful guidance. I would be interested in more of this in light of securing the right equipment to handle a holding the size of the Collector's Package, if you think it's not the ideal thing to purchase.

Tell me, is there a way to design one's own package of existing books (no additional cost of development) and not be charged as individual purchases? Let's say, for example, I compiled the following:

  1. The Word Biblical Commentaries
  2. The NICOT/NICNT Set 
  3. The Tyndale Commentaries
  4. The Master Journal Bundle 
  5. The Hebrew and Greek Mobile Ed 
  6. The two best Bible dictionaries - ISBE and the IVP Dictionaries
  7. The best systematic theologies - Grudem and Erickson
  8. and several other things of my choosing.  

In short, is there a cafeteria style packaging? If not, why not?  Why is it seems that the "good stuff" is in other packages or spread all over the place?

Is it  a dream or a matter of when time when the Logos users will be able design their own packages?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2015 8:53 AM

Charles McNeil:
In short, is there a cafeteria style packaging?

No you can't "build your own package". I expect one of the reasons behind this is that publishers need to agree to some of the bundling that takes place.

If you want to put together something like this I would recommend contacting someone in the Sales, outlining what you are trying to do and see how they can help you

Posts 4165
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2015 8:59 AM

A number of people have asked for this sort of ala carte style base package, and while I don't speak for Faithlife, I'd be surprised to see it happen.

They'd have to re-do all of their contracts I think in order to make it work (due to the extreme discounts) and even if they were able to get some publishers, and authors to sign off, they certainly wouldn't get all of them, and that might add enough complexity that they FL wouldn't do it.

I piece meal things as they go on sale over the course of a few years. I have Master Journal Bundle 1.0, and pre-order in on 2.0, nicot/nt. WBC. IVP (but not yet tyndale), ISBE, anchor yale dictionary, ivp dictionaries. I have the classic commentaries and studies 1.0 and 2.0, Frame, Berkhof,  Grudem and Erickson (in paper for these two for now). Added to that I have the top level base package for every denomination except anglican and orthodox (and won't get sda) and recently added Collectors (for the commentaries).

Just to name a few - and without mentioning the verbum package I have.

Next purchases - sermon builder bundle - the one with 17000 sermons in it, and the methodist library builder. After that I may upgrade Orthodox, or anglican to the top level packages.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 237
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2015 9:12 AM

Graham Criddle:

No you can't "build your own package". I expect one of the reasons behind this is that publishers need to agree to some of the bundling that takes place.

If you want to put together something like this I would recommend contacting someone in the Sales, outlining what you are trying to do and see how they can help you

Thank you.  Happy Thanksgiving!

Posts 237
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2015 9:46 AM

abondservant:
A number of people have asked for this sort of ala carte style base package, and while I don't speak for Faithlife, I'd be surprised to see it happen.

You never know what the future holds. Like you, I, too, can't speak for Bob or Faithlife, but a businessman that's attentive to the times, the bottomline, the voices of his customers, and the probability of increased sales, he can and will make the necessary adjustments, even if it's not popular (e.g. payment plans). If American politicians (not saying that Bob is one) can change their positions, in light of the people and votes, Faithlife can change, if it chooses.

abondservant:

Added to that I have the top level base package for every denomination except anglican and orthodox (and won't get sda) and recently added Collectors (for the commentaries)...the verbum package I have. Next purchases - sermon builder bundle - the one with 17000 sermons in it, and the methodist library builder. After that I may upgrade Orthodox, or anglican to the top level packages. 

This is interesting.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING, TO YOU!

Posts 1271
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2015 1:34 PM

I think it is fair to say that normally the best price is a base package price. With that in mind you want to snap up a few denominations because much of what you want is included with something...

eg. I needed to spend a month studying Aquinas when I was looking at how predestination has been understood in relation to prayer. I'm not a catholic but It was cheaper to add a Verbum base package which included that and loads of other stuff than to buy the individual resource. Quite amazing really.

The other big ticket items are normally available on sale at some point in the year so if it isn't urgent then wait for the sale. In my experience you can predict future sales by looking at the blog for the same time in the previous year. It's not a sure thing but there does seem to be a rhythm to it.

Some items can also be had in bundles which are significantly discounted at the time of buying the base package.

Also there is some magic math going on which means it can be cheaper to purchase things in one order or another. I'm not sure if I've got that figured out just yet. I think, don't know for sure it is cheaper to get the biggest base package first and then add smaller ones after because of the dynamic pricing on data sets etc.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1210
Ward Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 26 2015 3:41 PM
An SSD that is big enough to hold your files is the top thing. An i5 or better processor is a good idea If buying a computer now, I would get one that can be portable but still drive two 4 k monitors when at home/work--my dream PC is the MS Surface Book with 256GB or bigger SSD. Consider whether a big bundle is what you want--it takes more storage space, you will be more frequently effected by resource updates, and indexing will take longer (but Logos has made impressive improvements in these areas over the last few years) If you are going to be a power user, also get Logos Now so you get to use the new features faster.
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