http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/02/lower_prices_on_zondervan_titles_and_discounts_for_pradis_users.html
Be sure to read all the details.
Only available by phone order to verify Pradis ownership.
Only 1 order may be placed for the Pradis discount. Plan what you want to buy and place one order.
Thank you Zondervan and Logos for responding to your customers!
This discount is a joke! Pradis users will end paying more than double their resources. If I bought the whole prepub package with the 40% it would cost me more than I originally spent. What a ripoff! But then again it's Zondervan so we should not be surprised.
Nothing for those who bought Zondervan products before Pradis??
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
Mark A. Smith: Nothing for those who bought Zondervan products before Pradis??
I hear you, Mark. I had the EBC and the theological dictionaries before Pradis and then when I got it, I didn't want to pay for them again. I hope Logos or Zondervan (whichever) would see this issue differently.
Joan Korte: I hope Logos will see this issue clearly.
This is not a Logos issue, but a Zondervan one.
Terry Poperszky: Joan Korte: I hope Logos will see this issue clearly. This is not a Logos issue, but a Zondervan one.
Yes - please everyone remember that Logos does not get to call the shots on this one. Typical Zondervan...
Jerry
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
Edwin Bowden: http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/02/lower_prices_on_zondervan_titles_and_discounts_for_pradis_users.html Be sure to read all the details. Only available by phone order to verify Pradis ownership. Only 1 order may be placed for the Pradis discount. Plan what you want to buy and place one order. Thank you Zondervan and Logos for responding to your customers!
Does anyone know if the pictorial encyclopedia is included in this discount? Since it replaces an older version I didn't know if this would qualify for an upgrade or if they consider it an entirely new product.
Thanks
In other news, a new edition of my favorite book just came out!
I wonder when the publisher's going to send me my free or heavily discounted copy just because I bought the previous edition?
For what its worth, we're starting to sound like we're a privileged minority or something. We expect special treatment that no other print-book buyers are getting.
I think we should be happy with the discount we're getting, because in my opinion, Zondervan would still be following normal publishing practices if they didn't decide to cater to the Logos community.
Greg Masone: In other news, a new edition of my favorite book just came out! I wonder when the publisher's going to send me my free or heavily discounted copy just because I bought the previous edition? For what its worth, we're starting to sound like we're a privileged minority or something. We expect special treatment that no other print-book buyers are getting. I think we should be happy with the discount we're getting, because in my opinion, Zondervan would still be following normal publishing practices if they didn't decide to cater to the Logos community.
You are comparing apples to oranges
The last time I checked, print books do not need compatibility with successive generations of OSes, nor do they need technical support or periodic updates.when customers buy a software, there is an reasonable expectation that the product will be supported and that they will be able to use it as long as the company exists (even if they have to pay for an engine upgrade). By ending support of Pradis in a few months, Zondervan has put in a place a programmed obsolescence of the resources in Pradis format.
I do hope that you are not one of those who are not Pradis users or only possess a few resources because it is just too easy to give lessons when one did not heavily invest in a product and faces the prospect of have to pay the same price or more just to ensure the longevity of his or her resources.
Alain
You can please some of the people some of the time.... But never all of the people all of the time... (I do feel bad for current Pradis users)
-A few years ago Pradis owners certainly were satisfied with the money they had spent investing into the program... Now that program is worth very little because the company has decided to stop supporting it.
-This whole issue has reminded me that we could all be in the same boat at some point in the future... What has happened here with Zondervan/Pradis could one day happen to Logos/L4... Lets all hope not.
I post here again what I put in the parallel thread:
I join my voice to the chorus of disappointed owner of Pradis resources. The one resource that I own and would really like to have in Logos is the NIDOTTE. I bought it in the old days from RJCS for 89.95. The pre-pub price is 159.99 and with the 40% it comes to 95.99.
On top of this, this announcement has been very long in coming and now it is so close to the expected release of titles in pre-pub that we have to rush to make the decision. Once the titles are off pre-pub, the deal will be even more bitter to swallow.
Ironically, I have a pre-pub ordered that is supposed to come out today. I don't have the money for both right now. Should I cancel my other pre-pub to get NIDOTTE and then pay full-price later on the first product? Should I make this decision now in a rush?
I am also HUGELY disappointed with the limitation that the discount applies only to one combined order. I can understand that there is a time limit (June), but are we supposed to have the financial means to replace all Pradis titles in one shot?
So now is the real question, and it's so many times the same question that comes back again and again: what is the abused customer to do? Shall we boycott and more likely than not have no other result than deprive ourselves of tools we can use for our ministry? Or shall we capitulate and give our money to those who do this kind of things?
I am seriously tempted by the boycott option and may not even have the choice: I don't have the money to make a quick move right now and I am not sure that I would be able to swallow that pill. Will I be able to swallow the even bigger pill when the products are at full price?
One thing I do know: even if I end up purchasing one product I absolutely need, I will not again purchase from them anything else that I don't absolutely need.
Alain Maashe: You are comparing apples to oranges The last time I checked, print books do not need compatibility with successive generations of OSes, nor do they need technical support or periodic updates.when customers buy a software, there is an reasonable expectation that the product will be supported and that they will be able to use it as long as the company exists (even if they have to pay for an engine upgrade). By ending support of Pradis in a few months, Zondervan has put in a place a programmed obsolescence of the resources in Pradis format. I do hope that you are not one of those who are not Pradis users or only possess a few resources because it is just too easy to give lessons when one did not heavily invest in a product and faces the prospect of have to pay the same price or more just to ensure the longevity of his or her resources.
Alain,
I don't own Pradis, and my investment in Logos at the moment is small compared to most uses. I fully support the digitalization of books and what Logos is doing, yet I have no plans for giving up my print resources just yet, whether I have them digitally or not.
With that said, a book is a book is a book no matter the format its in. Changing the method of consumption doesn't entitle us to special treatment. When cassettes gave way to CDs, or VHS to DVDs, we either upgraded our collection like everyone else or sucked it up and maintained the VCR.
Or, say I bought a print-book that was poorly formatted, had numerous typos, was an eye-sore to look at, and had a cheap binding that wouldn't last a second reading. Then the publisher comes out with a new edition that corrects all those problems but leaves the actual written work unchanged.
Am I entitled to a discount or a free copy because I bought the bad copy that won't last much longer? Of course not. If I want the new edition I have to go out and buy it like everyone else. The only discount I can get is by selling the old copy and using that money to help buy the new one.
This is apples to apples because we buy a book for the information continued within; it doesn't matter if the shell that contains that information becomes obsolete. Its up to us, the consumer, to maintain the shell that we originally bought it in, or bite the bullet and buy the new version. How we consume it is up to us. In as much as the original product meets the expectations and requirements of the publisher, its out of their hands once the customer buys it.
When a book goes digital, we don't automatically get a copy just because we own it in print. The works that Pradis users own still work, and they will continue to work as long as they maintain a computer that can run the program. That's their responsibility, and they knew it when they invested in a digital resource. That's the risk involved with any purchase, not just digital ones. If I became blind, the publishers aren't obligated to provide me with free or discounted Braille editions of all my print-books! That's my responsibility. And yet if they did, I would be incredibly thankful for their charity.
Zondervan went above and beyond what was expected of them, and still they get complaints. We've got this horrible minority complex going that expects special treatment, and its frustrating to see Zondervan bad-mouthed when they've already done more than any other print-publisher would be willing to do for double-dippers.
I think we should be happy with what we've been given.
I don't believe that a discussion about pricing and related policies are a hidden plea for a welfare state in the e-book publishing and distribution market niche. Nor do I think the issue is the consumers of e-book products and their individual purchasing habits which often seems to be the default position of many who defend these players in this market. Rather, I think the question is what these companies owe their loyal customers (especially ones that call themselves Christian) when the market place is becoming dominated by one player. If the answer is that companies owe their customers nothing what does that say about the whole notion of a "christian" company and what consumers owe such companies?
Greg Masone:With that said, a book is a book is a book no matter the format its in. Changing the method of consumption doesn't entitle us to special treatment. When cassettes gave way to CDs, or VHS to DVDs, we either upgraded our collection like everyone else or sucked it up and maintained the VCR.
I do not agree with this statement. I say there is a big difference in the format. When updating a book does not require printing, storing the newly upgraded book in a warehoue, and shipping the new book via UPS/USPS then yes there is a BIG difference in the format. Since the are doing the update anyway in order to produce a quality product for first time customers, then giving that update to previous customers does not cost very much more. The only real cost to the person producing the book is digital storage of the book. They are going to do this no matter what the former customers do. So this is not an additional cost to the company to support old customers. Second, sending me the new book costs a very small amount of money in bandwidth charges. I doubt Logos is paying per MB. But it might cost them more to have enough bandwidth to be able to support both old and new customers. So I understand them getting a fee for this kind of thing. Also they have to pay someone to check the records and make sure that I am a previous Zondervan customers. So I am happy to pay to cover that cost. But I doubt that it is $129.99 to cover the costs of these things for the EBC.
Dr. Kevin Purcell - Theotek.com
Richard Crampton: This discount is a joke! Pradis users will end paying more than double their resources. If I bought the whole prepub package with the 40% it would cost me more than I originally spent. What a ripoff! But then again it's Zondervan so we should not be surprised.
But you never owned it in Logos. You still own your Pradis and now you get a discount to get it in Logos
Jacob HantlaPastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church gbcaz.org
This might ease the pain. I just got off the phone with Sales to ensure I got the 40% on my EBC and he said that I qualified for 40% on all of it. Since I own EBC I could get 40% off the entire package after the new lower price. It makes it just a little over $1,070. I added the NIV Application Commentary to my EBC and am now less disappointed than I was.
Kevin A. Purcell:I do not agree with this statement. I say there is a big difference in the format. When updating a book does not require printing, storing the newly upgraded book in a warehoue, and shipping the new book via UPS/USPS then yes there is a BIG difference in the format. Since the are doing the update anyway in order to produce a quality product for first time customers, then giving that update to previous customers does not cost very much more. The only real cost to the person producing the book is digital storage of the book. They are going to do this no matter what the former customers do. So this is not an additional cost to the company to support old customers. Second, sending me the new book costs a very small amount of money in bandwidth charges. I doubt Logos is paying per MB. But it might cost them more to have enough bandwidth to be able to support both old and new customers. So I understand them getting a fee for this kind of thing. Also they have to pay someone to check the records and make sure that I am a previous Zondervan customers. So I am happy to pay to cover that cost. But I doubt that it is $129.99 to cover the costs of these things for the EBC.
Kevin,
Thank you for responding. I think you are emphasizing the digital part of these digital resources, and that's where the difference lies. We're not paying for the shell, or how we consume it. We're paying for the information contained within that shell. And that stays the same regardless of how we chose to consume it.
If I don't like how I'm consuming an old version of a book, I can go buy a newer one. If I don't like my cassettes, I can go buy the CD or download the album from iTunes. Does the information change at all? Not at all, but I still have to pay for it if I chose to consume it differently.
I'm all for passing on savings publishers experience by going from hard-copy to digital, but expecting that the information contained within the delivery model is somehow worth less because its in a different medium goes against our experience with any other type of similar purchase.
Going from Pradis to Logos is like going from cheap paperback to elegant leather. We're upgrading and still getting an awesome discount on the Pre-Pub price no less! This is a gift!
Let's stop being offended that publishers have families to feed too and start being satisfied with what we have.
Greg Masone:Let's stop being offended that publishers have families to feed too
Off-topic, inappropriate and all that stuff but this is too good an opportunity to pass up. That's why we used MONKS before the printing press.
Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."
Greg Masone:publishers have families to feed too
Rupert Murdoch — Net Worth: ▲$8.3 Billion
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
Kevin A. Purcell: This might ease the pain. I just got off the phone with Sales to ensure I got the 40% on my EBC and he said that I qualified for 40% on all of it. Since I own EBC I could get 40% off the entire package after the new lower price. It makes it just a little over $1,070. I added the NIV Application Commentary to my EBC and am now less disappointed than I was.