Learning Logos - Mobile Ed Products

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Michael Kinch | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Dec 17 2015 2:59 PM

I am looking at 3 products for learning to get the most out of Logos

Mobile Ed: BI100 Learn to Study the Bible by Darrell L. Bock

Mobile Ed: Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos 6

Mobile Ed: LT161 Logos Academic Training by Morris Proctor

I am wondering, will there be an overlap between the Morris Proctor product and the other 2.  Should I get all three?  What do you suggest?

Posts 8136
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2015 3:15 PM

 Oh boy! (Smacking forehead and rubbing hand down my face!!!) Where were you during Black Friday? Learn to use Biblical Greek and Hebrew was 50% off for four days and about a week before that it was still 50% off on the prepub program. Now you want to pay almost full price for it? Wow you must be either new or don't check sales or maybe you didn't have the money when it was half off less than a month ago. Personally I wouldn't buy neither one unless you're a lay person and want to dig a little bit on the word due to lack of formal training. But hey it's your money ;)

Posts 649
Michael Kinch | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2015 5:08 PM

DAL:

 Oh boy! (Smacking forehead and rubbing hand down my face!!!) Where were you during Black Friday? Learn to use Biblical Greek and Hebrew was 50% off for four days and about a week before that it was still 50% off on the prepub program. Now you want to pay almost full price for it? Wow you must be either new or don't check sales or maybe you didn't have the money when it was half off less than a month ago. Personally I wouldn't buy neither one unless you're a lay person and want to dig a little bit on the word due to lack of formal training. But hey it's your money ;)

Hey Dal, hope you didn't smack your forehead too hard. Just trying to give Logos the best profit margin possible.  Just joking.  Actually I am not new but not as seasoned as some either.  I was watching the Black Friday sales.  Actually I had already purchased the Greek and Hebrew in DVD a while back so I get a pretty good discount.  I think it is good until the end of the year. Not sure what it will be in the new year but I am working with a sales rep to put a package together.  You are right, I am a lay person.  I am head elder in my church though I have not had any formal training - I have never been to Bible College or seminary.  I do want to dig deeper in the word.  Each year I try to set a goal for my studies to focus on one area.  Next year is learning how to get the most out of Bible Study Software and Bible Study Methods. Yeah it is my money but it is not doing me any good in my pocket, might as well invest it, don't you think?

Posts 8136
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2015 5:53 PM

 Well you deserve to be commended then  not many laypeople want to invest in deepening their Bible knowledge :)  and if you will be getting good prices then why not go for it! 

Posts 213
David J. Wilson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2015 6:42 PM

Michael Kinch:

I am looking at 3 products for learning to get the most out of Logos

Mobile Ed: BI100 Learn to Study the Bible by Darrell L. Bock

Mobile Ed: Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos 6

Mobile Ed: LT161 Logos Academic Training by Morris Proctor

I am wondering, will there be an overlap between the Morris Proctor product and the other 2.  Should I get all three?  What do you suggest?

Hi Michael:  There is not likely to be much overlap in these three:

- the Biblical Greek and Hebrew is getting you started in learning those Biblical Languages and you have already shown an interest by getting the original versions of these courses, as such the upgrade is well worth the price to you: do NOT wait too long it will more than double at the end of the month

- LT161 is Morris Proctor doing what he does best and teaching you everything you did not know about how to use Logos 6 well beyond the basics (at 50% off before Christmas this is also a great deal)

- BI100 Learn to Study the Bible is good, but at only 10% off right now not the best deal available: have you considered BI101 instead which is currently 50% off, assuming you intend to buy before Christmas) : Mobile Ed: BI101 Introducing Biblical Interpretation: Contexts and Resources

Posts 1432
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2015 7:12 PM

Mobile Ed: Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos 6 is an excellent course! A little dry on the Greek side, but an excellent tool none the less!! The Hebrew course is much more interesting, but that might just be me, or perhaps the subject matter. 

Even at just 10% off, BI100 Learn to Study the Bible  is a great class. And no, there would be almost no overlap here, as LTUBG&H focuses exclusively on Hebrew and Greek tools and such (not teaching you the language, but how to navigate in the language better through Logos, where BI100 is on Bible Study methodologies. But, as has been suggested, BI101 is a great course too and is on sale at deeper savings. 

Regarding LT161...while I usually would never discourage buying a FL product (Im as a big a fan of FL and their products as you can get), I would HIGHLY discourage buying this course! Highly! Why? Even at a discounted price, it is much more pricey than a better course you can get else where, a course that will give you MANY more hours of training and would delve much more in depth into the Logos features. Granted, it wont be housed in your Logos framework like LT161 would, but I don't think thats that big of a deal with this one class. The course I would recommend is Logos 6 Training from www.learnlogos.com. For just $65 you can have over 30 hours of training from a EXPERT in the program. John is a former Logos employees and now does independent training and consulting for Logos users. He also has FREE biweekly webinars on how to leverage the program to enhance your Bible study. I cannot stress how much his training webinars and videos have enhanced my understanding and leveraging of Logos 4, 5, and 6. The Morris Proctor training is so basic and elementary that I would get very discouraged, wishing for him to hurry up and tell me something I did not know (like how to use my mouse to click on something, or how to right click, LOL). Trust me, Learn Logos is the best $65 you will ever spend! I guarantee it. You'll be challenged, and you'll be amazed at all that Logos can do. John also recommends products along the way in the training to help you get the most out of Logos (recommendations he does not get commissions for). Check out his product. Its an excellent investment of you want to get serious about using the program. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 371
Lonnie Spencer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2015 8:20 AM

I like John Fallahee and I have bought many of his classes. But I would still choose Morris Proctor. The reason why is because Mobile Ed. has the course content in written format as well as the video. This may not seem like a an advantage until you go to look for something in the class at a later date. It is much faster to do a basic search of the class notes then have to go through a video frame by frame looking for something you missed or need to see how it was done. That is well worth the extra cost to me.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2015 9:43 AM

Myke Harbuck:
Mobile Ed: Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos 6 is an excellent course! A little dry on the Greek side, but an excellent tool none the less!! The Hebrew course is much more interesting, but that might just be me, or perhaps the subject matter. 

My one complaint about the Hebrew course is that Dr Heiser encourages dependence on the crutch of the interlinear rather than actually teaching the language. After all, the Reverse Interlinear is not the only Hebrew tool available in Logos. I have only completed about 1/3 of the segments; hopefully this will change later in the course.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2015 10:31 AM

Jack Caviness:
My one complaint about the Hebrew course is that Dr Heiser encourages dependence on the crutch of the interlinear rather than actually teaching the language.

When the course was first developed several of us made this point which is why it is titled "Learn to use ... with Logos" 'cuz it isn't teaching you the language.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 147
Pete De Bonte | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2015 3:09 PM

Jack Caviness:
[In LA151, "Learn To Use Hebrew…"] Dr Heiser encourages dependence on the crutch of the interlinear…. I have only completed about 1/3 of the segments; hopefully this will change later in the course.

I doubt it will become less emphasized, as both near the beginning (§4) and near the end (§158), Dr Heiser describes "…the centerpiece being our reverse interlinear." (Also note the title of §3: "Reverse Interlinear: Primary Tool")

Were the original "Learn to use…" courses different in that regard?

Posts 1432
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2015 4:42 PM

Lonnie Spencer:

I like John Fallahee and I have bought many of his classes. But I would still choose Morris Proctor. The reason why is because Mobile Ed. has the course content in written format as well as the video. This may not seem like a an advantage until you go to look for something in the class at a later date. It is much faster to do a basic search of the class notes then have to go through a video frame by frame looking for something you missed or need to see how it was done. That is well worth the extra cost to me.

I do agree that it is nice having the transcription in your library. But the question is, A transcription of what? What Morris touches on is so basic I cannot help but imagine that most who use this resource as their primary training will never go on to be "power users." However, John's resource at LearnLogos.com can in fact make a power user out of someone. IDK...maybe if Morris would make an "Advanced" class I might have a different opinion. I simply feel that the MP product is way, way, way too basic for a price of $279 (retail) or even a sale price of $140. For $65 one can learn 5 to 10 more with LearnLogos and really begin to leverage the power of this amazing system. IMHO. And like said, I really for bad for discouraging the purchase of a FL product...I feel like a traitor. But I must be honest and I feel like the original post author has a right to know the truth. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2015 6:53 PM
Pete De Bonte:
Were the original "Learn to use…" courses different in that regard?
I honestly do not remember.
Posts 1432
Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2015 7:35 PM

Pete De Bonte:

Were the original "Learn to use…" courses different in that regard?

Not really. The original ones had the same structure and focus, but more on actually using the tools and less on learning "about" the tools. I actually enjoyed the original ones MUCH more, but they are pretty much useless now that the AF morphology is not attached to the ESV. I sure to miss AF...much more robust to me than LM. 

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College

Posts 5744
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2015 9:24 PM

Jack Caviness:

Myke Harbuck:
Mobile Ed: Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos 6 is an excellent course! A little dry on the Greek side, but an excellent tool none the less!! The Hebrew course is much more interesting, but that might just be me, or perhaps the subject matter. 

My one complaint about the Hebrew course is that Dr Heiser encourages dependence on the crutch of the interlinear rather than actually teaching the language. After all, the Reverse Interlinear is not the only Hebrew tool available in Logos. I have only completed about 1/3 of the segments; hopefully this will change later in the course.

These courses are not designed to teach you the language per se,  they are designed to teach a layperson how to use the tool available in Logos to dig more deeply into the text.  If you understand how the tool set in Logos works you will understand the Reverse Interlinear's (RI) are central too and underlie many of those tool hence these course are naturally focussed on the RI  Secondly these course introduce the layperson to terminology and concepts they will come across when reading more in depth commentaries. For learning the languages the following product is a useful starting point https://www.logos.com/product/34026/zondervan-biblical-languages-video-lectures 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 19 2015 4:25 AM

Disciple of Christ (doc):
These courses are not designed to teach you the language per se,  they are designed to teach a layperson how to use the tool available in Logos to dig more deeply into the text.  If you understand how the tool set in Logos works you will understand the Reverse Interlinear's (RI) are central too and underlie many of those tool hence these course are naturally focussed on the RI

OK—MJ and DOC—I should have phrased my concern more clearly. I understand what the courses are designed to do. It's just that I love interlinears almost as much as George S does Geeked. Knowing what the courses are designed to do does not remove the danger that students will become addicted to the crutch and therefore will be deluded into believing they actually know the language.

Other than that, I do like the Hebrew course, but I have not tried the Greek yet. Even though I am fairly fluent in Greek and can struggle through a passage in Hebrew, I still see value in these courses for learning to use Logos more effectively.

I have noticed that there is some heavy duty language study in the collateral reading assignments for the Hebrew course.

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