Is there a way to stop automatic updating after downloading updates?

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Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 23 2015 9:43 AM

I have Windows 7 running in a 32bit environment. No comments on updating to 64bit as I have solid reasons for keeping it where it is. When Logos 6 says there is a new update, I now hesitate to click on it. 

My reason: Ever since Logos made it so that when you download updates you are not given the opportunity to decide whether or not to install them at that time, I have had to download the update a second time. This is because it won't install correctly unless I am running the program as an administrator. 

Today the update didn't install, crashed and prevented me from accessing the program entirely. Now I have to download 19+ Gigabytes (my entire library) again. Before someone comments, I tried the Control key and control panel repair fixes as well as calling Tech Support, all without success.)  

If the update would allow a person could click to download resources or updates and then be given the option whether or not to install them at that time, this would solve the problem completely.  In my case, all I would have to do is to restart the program as administrator, install the update and that would be it.

Since is used to be this way, what made Logos decide to take the option away from the user?

So much for a Merry Christmas, it looks like I will be spending the time downloading 20 Gigabytes again (this is the second time Logos has crashed beyond simple repair and I have had to download the entire program and resources).

Why has no one thought of that? 

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 10:10 AM

Don Randolph:
Now I have to download 19+ Gigabytes (my entire library) again. Before someone comments, I tried the Control key and control panel repair fixes as well as calling Tech Support, all without success.)  

You shouldn't have to redownload your resources in order to install again. Can you explain how you are doing the install?

In Program Setting you can control the time of day downloads will occur or even switch to manual downloads. That allows you some control over when the install occurs. But it sounds as if the core of the difficulty is that you need to install as administrator. As I do not, I haven't run into the difficulty you have.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 11:33 AM

I wish I didn't have to download the entire library again as well.  But I do.

The time of day is not the problem, the fact that Logos 6 now installs updates as soon as it finishes downloading them, rather than asking if you want to install them at that time or wait.  This is the way it used to be.  If I am in the program and have not entered as administrator, the install will not work because I operate normally in the 32bit environment.  My only option is to shut down Logos and log back on as administrator and then download the update and install it.  This is because Logos is concentrating on the 64bit and ignoring legacy systems (32bit). BTW:You are running a 64bit system and this is why you do not have to run in administrator mode.

If they would simply put back into the program the option to install or not (at the time of download), the problem would be answered.

The reason I posted this is the tech support representative I spoke with told me I should in case someone in product development might actually see it and do something about it.  There is no way to directly send the suggestion to product development so I will try anything so I don't have to do this again.

In the mean time by tomorrow morning I will have the files downloaded again and it will be up and running.   

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 11:40 AM

I understand your problem except for the need to redownload resources which should not be necessary. So I still am interested in how you update as there are better alternatives I suspect.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 12:04 PM

Logos has switched to a "silent update" system (that installs in the background) without needing administrative rights on both 32-bit and 64-bit systems. We regularly test on 32-bit and there should be no need to run as Administrator to install/update the software (except for infrequent updates that need to update system components, such as Microsoft .NET).

The most common cause of needing administrator privileges is incorrect folder permissions; this article explains how to reset them: https://www.logos.com/support/logos5/windows/error-writing-to-file 

Otherwise, if you enable logging while running the next update, the logs may tell us what the problem is. See "Step 4" here for instructions on enabling logging for setup problems: https://www.logos.com/support/logos6/windows/report-problem 

Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 1:09 PM

It would be interesting to see what 32bit systems you test it on. 

My reasoning: Ever since Logos has instituted the "You have X Mb of resources/updates to download...", I have not been able to install the updates successfully even once.  The resources install, but the actual program updates always return a "failed installation" type message.  My solution is/was to shut down Logos, start it back up as administrator and then the install has worked perfectly every time. 

After the "silent update" was instituted and I had my first failure, I made sure that I chose not to download until I had backed out and started the program as the administrator.  In those cases it has worked fine. 

The problem came in determining which were updates and which were resources.  Usually the size was an indicator, but this was not always the case.  Since I had just done an update a few days ago, I was not anticipating another so soon.  It failed the install and, this time, failed the administrator install as well. I lost the ability to repair it in the Control Panel and all the Ctrl-Click in the world wouldn't start it. 

I will enable logging next time to see what is going on (good suggestion).  I did notice that the file folder reads Logos 4, but figured it was like Quicken which doesn't change the directory for a new install.

BTW, the last update a few days ago did update Microsoft .NET Framework to 4.6, but I have run the program since then without problem.

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 1:20 PM

Don Randolph:

It would be interesting to see what 32bit systems you test it on. 

My reasoning: Ever since Logos has instituted the "You have X Mb of resources/updates to download...", I have not been able to install the updates successfully even once.  The resources install, but the actual program updates always return a "failed installation" type message.  My solution is/was to shut down Logos, start it back up as administrator and then the install has worked perfectly every time. 

All of what you are describing is rather weird. I run Logos as non-adminstrator on an old Win 7 32 bit system (see my sig) and it works fine installing updates - which happens often since I'm on the beta channel. There once was an issue where automated updates didn't work an I had to manuall download and run the installer - that was months away. BUT: even then, installing a new version of the Logos program doesn't require a download of the whole library. Something seems to be really broken in your system and you should share all Logs that you find, but best let someone from tech support logon to your machine and fix it.

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 1:42 PM

While it may seem weird to you, it is frustrating to me. It is possible that having been working with computers since 1974, I have seen some things you may not have and this could be why I don't consider it weird.

As for the balance of your comment, there is no solution available. Perhaps I should have been more specific in my original post.  I called Tech Support, one of the techs remotely manipulated my computer and could not figure out the problem. Gave up and started the whole download fiasco himself. So, I would rather not let them do that again.

As for my system being "really broken", I am not familiar with that as being technical terminology and, having built my own computers for 25 years now, I know is not the problem.

Request: Please read my second post before posting on this thread.  I mainly posted to see if product development would consider allowing us to have the option of deciding when to install the updates, nothing more.

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 1:56 PM

Bradley,

Since you are involved in product development, and the tech from Tech Support told me there is no direct access to PD, I will use this thread. 

Is there a way to either reverse the "silent update" or to change the options to allow the user to choose when to install the update or other downloaded resources? 

Sometimes a user downloads the update and doesn't want to wait around for the update/indexing to take place. (Sort of like Microsoft update option to download and ask before installing. Although some updates [Read:GWX] install without user approval, which has caused the company to receive flack recently) 

If you gave the user the option to update/index at a later time, it would be a tremendous help. 

Taking away user control will be the downfall of a lot of tech companies in the future and something as simple as this could be stemmed before it really causes a problem.

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 3:38 PM

Don Randolph:
It is possible that having been working with computers since 1974, I have seen some things you may not have and this could be why I don't consider it weird.

I have a few years of experience on you - I first programed an IBM 1800 in Fortran in late 1965 or early 1966. Big Smile Two admissions: I never wired a computer board to program it and I've forgotten how to wire a collator for cards. I still believe that you should not have to reload resources although I also know why a tech might tell you that as some of the methods around it are not official. I also believe Bradley when he says you don't have to run as administrator. However, I am very curious as to what is going on and hope that logs will explain the curiosity.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8337
LogosEmployee

Don Randolph:
Is there a way to either reverse the "silent update" or to change the options to allow the user to choose when to install the update or other downloaded resources? 

There is currently no option to change this. I can pass the suggestion along.

As other users have posted, the installer works fine under very similar circumstances (non-Administrator, 32-bit Windows 7), and it also works in our internal testing. Hopefully log files will help us figure out what is different about your system and get it fixed for you.

Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 5:06 PM

Thank you for your response Bradley.  That was the whole purpose of this post in the first place and it is done.  I wish there had been a direct email address to your department, but the technician told me this was the only way to get it there.  Thank you for passing it along.  Even if it is not addressed, I have done what I could.

As for it working for internal testing and others: I am happy for you. However, whether or not it works on someone else's system means nothing to me if it doesn't work on the one I am using.  It is a repeatable and consistent occurrence so not in my imagination. I will send the log files the next time an update is installed.  Speaking of which, who do I send the log files to?    

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

Posts 8337
LogosEmployee

You can zip them and attach them to a reply to this thread.

Or, if you'd prefer email, send them to logosbugs@logos.com (and please reference this thread).

Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 23 2015 8:08 PM

Thank you Bradley.  That is exactly what I will do. 11 hours and 43% downloaded. I should be up and running by tomorrow morning.   

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2015 3:37 AM

Don Randolph:

Thank you Bradley.  That is exactly what I will do. 11 hours and 43% downloaded. I should be up and running by tomorrow morning.   

If you've uninstalled Logos and then reinstalled, I would expect updates to work from now on.

As Bradley has mentioned, your issues sounds very much like a folder permissions problem, and if you uninstall then reinstall, then the folder permissions should get reset.

In the future, if you have problems with Logos crashing, it's always worth uploading logs here before attempting the nuclear option of uninstall/reinstall. In my experience, uninstall/reinstall is almost never necessary to get Logos working again, and even if it is, then a full download of resources is never necessary.

Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2015 7:05 AM

I would expect it to work as well.  It did the last time this happened, but it still required the steps I outlined in previous posts.

As far as the installation (I did not uninstall anything), this comment should be directed to the technician who started it in the first place (see previous posts).  He started it remotely by downloading the installer and initializing it.  By the time he finished the session, I had no way to turn it off.

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2015 8:18 AM

Don Randolph:
As far as the installation (I did not uninstall anything), this comment should be directed to the technician who started it in the first place (see previous posts).  He started it remotely by downloading the installer and initializing it.  By the time he finished the session, I had no way to turn it off.

Tech support people (not just at Faithlife) tend to prefer the nuclear option, because it's quick (for them), relatively easy, and almost certainly guaranteed to work.

On the other hand, it usually ends up taking you much more time, and also means you'll never understand why the problem occurred or how to stop it happening again.

It's your call, but generally you'll find that people on the forum are much more willing to take the time to do proper troubleshooting — if you want that.

Posts 58
Don Randolph | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2015 8:52 AM

Mark,

You are certainly correct that the easy road is often chosen by tech support, especially when times get busy.  On the other hand you have given a little too much glory to the forum(s). 

If you will read the responses here, you will note that all they say is "It shouldn't do that" "You don't need to do this", etc., but not a single solution.  (Bradley excepted)  

As a regular on other tech forums, when I am talking with someone I usually know their level of expertise and respond accordingly. This forum is not an environment where I can do this and that is why I didn't ask for suggestions.  In all fairness, next time I will be more specific of my intent to send a message to PD only.

---------------------------------

Download time: 21 hours. Currently indexing 6804 resources. Hope to shut computer off before tomorrow.  

"If you cry out for insight and understanding and if you search for it as hidden treasure, then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God." - Proverbs 2:3-5

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2015 11:37 AM

Don Randolph:
If you will read the responses here, you will note that all they say is "It shouldn't do that" "You don't need to do this", etc., but not a single solution.  (Bradley excepted)

Some of us don't reply "but I am running 32-bit and not as administrator" directly contradicting your assertion but rather wait for you to answer the questions they need answered to give you an accurate answer. If you wish to make suggestions and not have the problem underlying it addressed, the Suggestions forum is the appropriate location in which to post.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 24 2015 3:16 PM

Don Randolph:

On the other hand you have given a little too much glory to the forum(s). 

If you will read the responses here, you will note that all they say is "It shouldn't do that" "You don't need to do this", etc., but not a single solution.  (Bradley excepted)  

I'm not attempting to give glory to the forums. I'm simply trying to be helpful.

You said there was "not a single solution (Bradley excepted)". We'll never know if that was the correct solution, but it's the obvious solution, as regulars here know. Once someone suggests that, it's pointless suggesting alternative solutions, particularly when it's entirely hypothetical because the reinstall is already in progress.

The response here tried to do two things:

  1. Assessed your proposal seriously, but concluded that whatever other merits it might have, it would be unlikely to solve the problem you experienced (which was very likely due to permission errors).
  2. Suggest an alternative way to solving that problem should it occur.

Don Randolph:
As a regular on other tech forums, when I am talking with someone I usually know their level of expertise and respond accordingly. This forum is not an environment where I can do this and that is why I didn't ask for suggestions.  In all fairness, next time I will be more specific of my intent to send a message to PD only.

You're of course right to be cautious before applying a fix given to you by people you don't know. But in my experience, it's very rare that people experience errors that others haven't previously faced. It's therefore highly likely that had you asked for help here then you would have been pointed to an authoritative answer (which in fact is what Bradley did). I'm simply suggesting that asking for advice in the forums is generally a better course of action than allowing a tech to reinstall your entire library. I think if you'd have done that first, you'd be up and running hours ago. But it's only advice. Hopefully you won't need it — and even if you do, you're obviously free to take it or leave it. 

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