Linux version of Logos Bible Software

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This post has 556 Replies | 33 Followers

Posts 18
Jesse Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 12 2019 2:22 PM

Kolen Cheung:
better than nothing.

So, that's what this has come to in the "Product Management" model here.

I'm starting to have the same feelings I had in the months after I had warned the pastor about a 40% exodus from the congregation and was ignored, or more recently the American pastors in Asia of two and three decades, who still hadn't learned a word of the local language, specifically advising that it wouldn't fair well for them among the local citizens.

Then this...

aaylnx:
I'm hoping this may mean that running Logos under WINE will get easier.  I don't know that Logos will have the desire to do this, but it looks like major obstacles are being moved out of the way should they ever desire to produce a native version of Logos for Linux. I would be just as happy if they just helped get Logos running under WINE (a much easier goal to achieve).

With Microsoft listening to the people more than the Logos PM road-mappers, it is becoming more and more clear that we have a "Layer 8" issue.

I'm all for WINE! Bravo, ten thousand times "YES, YES, YES!" I'm thinking to support you from Layers 9 and 10 (press and prayer, respectively.)

(Yes, this is on-topic because road-mapping from 'Layer 8' is part of software dev.)

Posts 777
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 12 2019 9:13 PM

Kolen Cheung:

Aaron Newell:
installed windows 10 in a vm and installed logos there.

I don't think people in this thread is interested in VM. (Not that they might not did it, but it is trivial to do and nothing to discuss.) They are discussing about running Linux natively, including using WINE (which is a compatibility layer rather than hypervisor.

I agree that many, if not most, people commenting in this thread want to run Logos natively on Linux. The reality is that Faithlife is not committed to it. Aaron and others who live in Linux for everything else they do may find the trade off of running a Windows guest VM and Logos within it to be worth the performance hit if their hardware is up to the task.

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 12 2019 10:04 PM

Bill Anderson:

Kolen Cheung:

Aaron Newell:
installed windows 10 in a vm and installed logos there.

I don't think people in this thread is interested in VM. (Not that they might not did it, but it is trivial to do and nothing to discuss.) They are discussing about running Linux natively, including using WINE (which is a compatibility layer rather than hypervisor.

I agree that many, if not most, people commenting in this thread want to run Logos natively on Linux. The reality is that Faithlife is not committed to it. Aaron and others who live in Linux for everything else they do may find the trade off of running a Windows guest VM and Logos within it to be worth the performance hit if their hardware is up to the task.

If you read the paranthesis I said it is trivial to run Logos in a VM, making it not worth discussing at all. And I don't think any Linux users didn't know such solution exist already.

And then how would that be related to "Linux version of Logos Software" at all? Any way to run Logos without VM can be classified as "Linux version" in someway, but putting it inside a VM isn't. So it is completely off topic.

Posts 26245
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 12 2019 11:06 PM

Kolen Cheung:
If you read the paranthesis I said it is trivial to run Logos in a VM, making it not worth discussing at all. And I don't think any Linux users didn't know such solution exist already.

Kolen, I think you underestimate the breadth of experience (or lack thereof) and knowledge (or lack thereof) of forum users. What you consider trivial may be new information to someone else - or useful information for someone not using Linux. Please help us make everyone feel welcome on the forums by welcoming everyone and every level of knowledge.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 12 2019 11:51 PM

MJ. Smith:

Kolen Cheung:
If you read the paranthesis I said it is trivial to run Logos in a VM, making it not worth discussing at all. And I don't think any Linux users didn't know such solution exist already.

Kolen, I think you underestimate the breadth of experience (or lack thereof) and knowledge (or lack thereof) of forum users. What you consider trivial may be new information to someone else - or useful information for someone not using Linux. Please help us make everyone feel welcome on the forums by welcoming everyone and every level of knowledge.

Trivial in terms of technical achievement. If one don't know how to do that, they are welcome to open a new thread asking for help. Or if one recently discovered this and want to help others who might not, again they can start their own thread about this.

That post clearly is off-topic, where the topic is "Linux version of Logos Bible Software". Now I didn't point it at their nose saying that it is off-topic and asked them to shut up. Instead I said 

Kolen Cheung:
I don't think people in this thread is interested in VM. (Not that they might not did it, but it is trivial to do and nothing to discuss.) They are discussing about running Linux natively, including using WINE (which is a compatibility layer rather than hypervisor.

I tried to let him understand the situation of this thread politely.

I suggest you stop policing around, and try to read the context before you reply.

Posts 51
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 4:58 AM

Kolen,

You and MJ Smith are both correct. I appreciate being given enough information about subjects being discussed so that I can search for more information should I want it.

Let's not talk about "virtual machine" running Logos. It's not what this discussion is about.  Dual booting Windows is another solution, but again, it's not the topic.  However it's good to mention them in passing. It would be wonderful to have a native Linux Logos!  Logos is the only Windows program I need to run, it is vastly superior to run it in Windows by rebooting.  It's just annoying to boot into Windows for one program. Let's not fight, pagans can do that for us. Regards, David It would be almost as nice to have Windows Logos running under WINE, Thanks! David

Posts 1887
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 6:52 AM

Guess it's time for me to jump in to this thread (again)... I wish FL would lock it to prevent future comments.

Faithlife: Please do not spend a nanosecond on any effort to "port" Logos to Linux.

My $.02... Thank you.

Donnie

Posts 11
sjm | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 7:23 AM

Not sure why you take that stance.  I really wish/desire that they would.  It even seems like Microsoft itself is moving toward open source. 

But, even though this is what I desire, alas, I gave up hope of it ever happening a few years ago and decided to spend any more of my money elsewhere.

Posts 18
Jesse Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 7:52 AM

Kolen Cheung:
Trivial in terms of technical achievement. If one don't know how to do that, they are welcome to open a new thread asking for help.

Absolutely right on! He's not trying to be rude, only brief and thus useful.

VM is semi-obvious and semi-more-obviously a non-solution because...

In a software download area with: Windows | Linux | Mac one wouldn't download a VM solution from the "Linux" download link. That being a practical example of the purpose of this thread: to have some kind of thing or another that would rightly go under the "Linux" download link on a download page... or at have the link point to WINE install instructions.

Posts 18
Jesse Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 7:59 AM

Donnie Hale:
would lock it to prevent future comments.... Please do not spend a nanosecond on any effort to "port" Logos to Linux.

Why lock the forum when Linux people might be able to discuss here to do the dev themselves?

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 8:19 AM

I feel like I am seeing some very strict interpretations on what is appropriate for this thread. More specifically, the idea that discussing using a VM to run a non-linux version on a Linux machine is not appropriate. I do find it odd that a discussion related to running the Android version in an emulator is OK, even though there is likely not much difference between an Android Emulator and a product such as Virtual Box or VMWare; although I will admit that I have not looked at how the internals of the Android emulators differ from VMWare or Vitual Box. I do know how Wine works, and that essentially allows Windows applications to run natively, but they are way behind the curve since Logos is (or at least they were last I checked) using the newest latest features in Windows. 

If I want to be very legalistic, I might mention that this is a "suggestion" forum for people to make suggestions for Logos and clearly this thread has strayed far from that. If we really want a thread on how to use Logos from a Linux machine, perhaps we should start a new thread elsewhere. 

I do find it interesting how others choose to try and make things work inside of Linux. I have no expectation that a Linux version will be released unless they choose to move to a common application framework such as QT. The time to do that was when they created a version to run on Apple devices. I do have experience there, but I have limited exposure to multi-platform development from inside the Microsoft Visual Studio environment. 

Last I checked, they do have an interest in a Linux version of Logos, but I think that they are far from making that happen at this point. 

Posts 1934
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 8:42 AM

Donnie Hale:

Guess it's time for me to jump in to this thread (again)... I wish FL would lock it to prevent future comments.

Faithlife: Please do not spend a nanosecond on any effort to "port" Logos to Linux.

My $.02... Thank you.

Donnie

This is quite sad. You are welcome to your 2 cents.  But it is wrong to impose it on others.  There are people (and I am one of them) who would like to see Logos available in Linux.  There is nothing wrong in discussing it and coming up with possibilities.  If you are not interested, then simply ignore the thread. Linux is growing more popular.  There is only two reasons why I am not using Linux and one of those reasons is Logos.  This thread has been alive since 2009 and much has changed in the past 10 years. Let the discussion continue. It is not breaking any forum rules.

Posts 51
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 9:10 AM

Andrew,

Suggestions like dual boot Windows, run a virtual machine, install Windows, then install Logos are obviously not "Linux version of Logos Bible Software."

Or even "Buy a Windows computer" aren't the subject.

Discussions can get way off subject, and when you're trying to find answers by searching, it's important to have the topic match if possible.

We have some trolls on this thread who have sabotaged discussion from the start.

Regards,

David

Posts 225
Kevin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 11:04 AM

It would be a bad business descision to invest the money to produce it. Faithife has limited resources, and 99% of customers if asked would no doubt prefer those resources were used to produce a better product they can use.

I expect 99% of those who use Linux and Wine can use Virtualbox, but I will happily do a tutorial for those that dont if requested, as this is how I run Logos often.

Posts 1401
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 12:08 PM

This might be a stupid question  but I'll try it anyway.

I would like to run the Logos PC version on an Android tablet.

This Galaxy Tab S4 has a good screen and a good processor and I could add memory to it.

The next question is how to implement it, I mean is it theoretically possible?

Just some general advice or moderate opinion at this point. :) 

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 10107
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 12:31 PM

Veli Voipio:

This might be a stupid question  but I'll try it anyway.

I would like to run the Logos PC version on an Android tablet.

This Galaxy Tab S4 has a good screen and a good processor and I could add memory to it.

The next question is how to implement it, I mean is it theoretically possible?

Just some general advice or moderate opinion at this point. :) 

Veli, you're far smarter than me. And you know very well that PC coding and Android coding are different, so you'd need a Windows 'box' on your Android .... with Windows.

But you're in luck .... FL is porting (as we speak)  their web app to the desktop!   You can do your Logos on android.  All of this, smiling.


Posts 51
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 12:38 PM

Hi Veli,

That would be wonderful.  The problem is that Crossover - which is a polished and paid for version of WINE doesn't work on ARM processors that Android usually runs on. 

So were back to square one.  A Linux / Android version of Logos Bible Software - OR - compatibility to run WINE or Crossover run it on Linux / Android.

I have a Linux computer and I only use one program on the Windows part of the dual boot computer, that's solely for Logos.

Even if it was a Linux version with a vastly restricted feature set, it's far inexpensive to outfit missionaries and students with Linux laptops than Windows laptops.  

I for one find Linux much more stable -- perhaps with Windows 10 things have improved, but when I installed various programs, the DLL files started crashing on me.  This doesn't happen in Linux because Linux doesn't allow modification of library files.

Short answer - you probably won't see a full version of Logos on Android unless you can find a non ARM based phone or tablet and Logos offers a version that works with WINE or Crossover.

I am not opposed to paying for a version that would work with WINE.

Be well

David

Posts 5
Michael Lindner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 12:46 PM

I'd like to clarify a few things:

- Can you run Logos on Windows under a VM? NO!
  Well, you *can* physically do it, but you are violating your Windows license. As someone who reads the Bible you should know that the 10 Commandments include "thou shall not steal" and using software illegally is theft of property. Or if you don't want to look at it that way, you could say "thou shall not lie" and agreeing to a software license and then using it outside that agreement is lying. Either way you should not be running Windows under a VM (that's assuming you have a regular Windows license - if you purchase a license to run virtual machines, or use Microsoft Azure or Amazon AWS Windows instances you are covered).

- Can you run Logos under WINE? NO (at least I don't know of anyone who's successfully done it).

Also note that FL has officially announced they have no plans to support Logos on Linux. Instead, they will support a browser-based SaaS Logos, which will be OS independent. So the issue is really closed. So there is no need to grandstanding, name calling, etc.

If you have Linux, or any other non-Windows OS, use Logos as an online service. That is the solution going forward.

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 3:13 PM

Andrew:
I do find it odd that a discussion related to running the Android version in an emulator is OK, even though there is likely not much difference between an Android Emulator and a product such as Virtual Box or VMWare

That's where you've misunderstood. Learn about Anbox and if you still have questions we can continue to discuss. In the post I suggested running Android version of Logos on Linux I briefly mentioned it is a container technology, using the fact that Android and Linux shares the same Linux kernel, to run any Android application natively on the host.

May be I've made too much assumption on what knowledge Linux users should have. But this is the basic difference in running VM vs. else. Windows on VM requires a Windows license, WINE don't. VM requires its own virtual disk (although it is common now to reclaim spaces from it) and RAM hence inefficient in disk and RAM space use (i.e. you need to pre-allocate the space and stick to it.) VM has a penalty (not that compatibility layer doesn't, but they differs a lot that one is often negligible and one doesn't.) VM however is the most robust solution because every chain are officially support (e.g. Running VMWare on certain Linux distro as host is supported, Running Windows as guest on VMWare is officially supported, running Logos on Windows is officially supported. It is almost always the most stable solution, often not less stable than running Windows on bare metal. The reasons not to use it is often comes down to money (licensing of Windows), aesthetic (don't like a separate desktop having its own UI, etc.), performance (a more beefy computer is often needed), etc.

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 13 2019 3:15 PM

Michael Lindner:
- Can you run Logos on Windows under a VM? NO!
  Well, you *can* physically do it, but you are violating your Windows license. As someone who reads the Bible you should know that the 10 Commandments include "thou shall not steal" and using software illegally is theft of property. Or if you don't want to look at it that way, you could say "thou shall not lie" and agreeing to a software license and then using it outside that agreement is lying. Either way you should not be running Windows under a VM (that's assuming you have a regular Windows license - if you purchase a license to run virtual machines, or use Microsoft Azure or Amazon AWS Windows instances you are covered).

You can't be more mistaken. If you replace Windows by macOS, that's somewhat true (macOS can legitimately be virtualize as long as it is running on Apple hardware), but that's totally wrong for Windows.

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