Linux version of Logos Bible Software

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 10:17 PM

David J. Ring, Jr.:
Does Faithlife now own Logos?

Thread => Logos Bible Software (the company) = Faithlife Corporation (coming soon!) explains Faithlife Corporation 

David J. Ring, Jr.:

The Wikipedia page you cite further down has Linux beating Mac. Further investigation to this shock showed Linux includes Android.

SourceDateMicrosoft Windows: 57.12% -1.15%Apple: 18.04% +0.84%Linux kernel based: 20.12% +0.56%Other[a] 4.74%

Also Apple includes iOS

Windows Phone & RT usage is less than GNU\Linux

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 30
Donald E. Shannon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 11:36 AM

Hi Bob

how will you know when youve reached 8%

do you mean 8% of your customers asking fo;r it,

or do you mean linux with 8% of the market share?

I've been asking for it for several years and just gave up on asking.

I hope its not a dead thought with you because I'd really like to get away from both Windows and MAC

The new machines are too expensive and I can build a nice linux system on older boxes that can be gotten pretty cheap.

But if I have to pay a grand for Logos, and still have to pay a grand for the box, then up grade windows, then get new boxes when they slow down....

Thanks for keeping linux an open topic.

Posts 61
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 11:58 AM

Logos is becoming less of an interest with me.

Two years ago I bought Logos 5 thinking I'd just stay current with Logos.

When I bought Logos 2.1 we were told that Logos engine would always be free to download, you just buy your books and they are yours forever.

The prices of the books has gone up severely.  I bought Early Church Fathers for $29.95 years ago, now the same books sell for $229.95.

Now Logos wants me to spend more money for another upgrade.  Few of the new books are anything I'm interested in.

It says the core engine of Logos 6 will be available after February 2015.

https://www.logos.com/product/46767/logos-6-core-engine

Who knows if that reduces the functionality of what I already have, but I don't want to spend $500 for  a program I rarely use when I have already invested thousands of dollars into it.  It looks like the "money hole" is never going to be patched over like a highway pot hole.

If I continued to use Windows, maybe.  But I'm not interested in paying and paying and paying forever.

Logos might be the best, but this is a big trade off for me.

David

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 12:03 PM

David, you will not lose functionality with L6. If you rarely use Logos it is unlikely that an additional $500 is a good investment. The real question is what functions do you need in order to make it more useful or have your circumstances simply changed to the point you need no Bible study program.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 61
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 12:39 PM

Hello MJ,

I'd like to be unconfused by the myriad of upgrade options - all about the same price, core upgrades, feature upgrades, Verbum upgrades.  It is just not simple.

I'd rather have a business model that new sales pay for the software updates and older owners just ride along.

Maybe I'll install Windows 7 in Virtual Box so I can run Logos.  I do enjoy using http://biblia.com.  

My need for bible software is the same, I just do not like or use Windows anymore and although I can boot into Windows, I consider it a hassle to do so because Windows is so buggy and slow compared to Linux.

If Logos could figure out how to safeguard their books in Linux - I don't want people to have books for free nor software for free that people wish to sell.  Often Windows people and Microsoft people (like the owner of Logos) misunderstand Linux users when it comes to proprietary programs and intellectual property rights.

I love a system that I never get trojans or virus, that is so stable that I can leave my computer (a low power unit of 7 watts) running for two and a half years constantly (it is a media server also).

Thanks for the info, I don't want to lose what I have now, and you're probably right that even though based on past experience the new features will be awesome, it's probably not worth $500 to upgrade.  I do like to financially support my favorite software people.

David

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 2:16 PM

If you wait, you will have a free upgrade option, but it will not update your text to take advantage of new features. If you are confused, just call them, and they will talk you through the differences.

I run this in a Windows 7 VM and Logos 6 on my VM has serious performance issues. May setup a new / different VM to see if it makes a difference since I think that not everyone sees the performance issue in scrolling and selecting text.

Posts 1893
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 3:51 PM

Regarding this thread, please see:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/121/671849.aspx#671849

;)

-Donnie

Posts 5251
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 4:49 PM

Donald E. Shannon:
The new machines are too expensive and I can build a nice linux system on older boxes that can be gotten pretty cheap.

You have to remember even if Logos came out in Linux format it would still likely require hardware similar to the Windows/Mac versions to run satisfactory.

-Dan

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 6:32 PM

What Donald is saying is that he is able to run Linux on Machines that are not sufficiently powerful to run Windows. I have seen this numerous times. A fully usable machine running programs with no issues that perform poorly on a Windows computer. That includes running the same applications (like LibreOffice or GImp).

Dan, I take your comments to be that Logos is sufficiently resource intensive that if you cannot run windows nicely, it won't work on Linux either. Could be. I have pretty souped up hardware and Logos 6 runs like a drunken pig in a Windows 7 Virtual Machine, even though it has memory to spare and does not appear to peg the CPU. Logos 5 was very fast in the same VM. I do not experience the slowdown on any of my other programs in that same VM (including three dimensional animated graphics). I suspect that the new version does something odd in the way that it handles a few specific tasks. I considered attaching a debugger or profiling tools to see what is happening, but that is overly time consuming; especially without debug information and source code. I suppose that if I made better use of the Logos tools I would be more inclined to do that. As it is, I don't use it as much more than a glorified Kindle reader.

Note that I also installed Logos 6 on a much less beefy machine with Windows 8 and it seemed to run well there. I don't really like windows 8, and I don't really care for that particular machine, but I purchased it with a purpose and I don't care to wipe it and install Linux since I rarely use it. If my wife complains about it often enough, I will do just that. Not looking forward to Windows 10; Microsoft claims to be adopting a subscription based model for using this operating system. Can't wait to see how that pans out.

It is unfortunate that when they wrote the Mac version of the software they did not opt for a cross platform application framework such as QT which would have allowed them to use a single primary code base for all of the different operating systems. As it stands now, they are supporting four distinct programs. They could have reduced that to one or two code basis depending on how they opted to deal with the reduced functionality versions.

I can't say that there is any economic reason for them to release a Linux version of the software, and I understand that some people do not want them to do so (wonder if they feel the same about any of the other existing versions of the software).

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 11:37 PM

I appreciate what you are saying Andrew.... just wanting to point out that the mac version is running on a UNIX kernel and is not requiring significantly less in hardware or massively better speed results. So my belief is any Linux version would be so poorly optimized that it would require as powerful a computer as a windows. It is a sad thing that Logos was not programmed differently but I doubt anything will change. If Logos 9 was a completely new build like Logos 4 I would not bet that it would be programmed in a way that was more friendly to different OS, but then again maybe at that time dropping windows support and adding linux support will make the most sense anything can happen... I hope some day you can get Logos to run under WINE at least.

-Dan

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 11:46 PM

Andrew:

It is unfortunate that when they wrote the Mac version of the software they did not opt for a cross platform application framework such as QT which would have allowed them to use a single primary code base for all of the different operating systems. As it stands now, they are supporting four distinct programs. They could have reduced that to one or two code basis depending on how they opted to deal with the reduced functionality versions.

You remember, I presume, that they first went down this route but could not get satisfactory performance. The type of application makes a significant difference in whether or not single primary code works well.

I believe the real question should be what features do you need and are you willing to change platforms for them ... guess who didn't even bother to look at Accordance years back ....

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 6:25 AM

Linux appears to require fewer resources just to run, which means that you have more resources left to run the application, even though the application itself would most likely have very similar usage characteristics. I would expect that given a base install that an application (all other things being equal) would have more resources available on Linux. Not all things are equal, so there are differences in video drivers and other things so it is hard to tell. I don't expect Logos to work with WINE or the commercial variant Crossover by code weavers since Logos uses very recent libraries in their Windows version, which is why a current version of Logos has not worked with Wine in years.

I don't expect that they will drop the Windows version, it is probably their number one money maker.

If I am ever board, I will toy with running the Android version under Linux, I have just not had sufficient motivation to do so.... Need to build some more furniture for the wife and something for my 9 year old (of course she wants me to use mahogany for her toy chest because it looks so nice on my computer desk that I built. Behind on updating OpenOffice documentation that I produce. Improve the interface on some hobby tracking software that I wrote,  etc.... Oh yeah, and spend time with the family. I don't understand people who are bored.

Blessings!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 7:01 AM

MJ. Smith:
You remember, I presume, that they first went down this route but could not get satisfactory performance.

The initial port of Libronix 3 to OS X had satisfactory performance, but lacked many features and took many years to develop.  The Safari 5 upgrade effectively changed "Logos for Mac 1" into an eBook reader.  Libronix 3 used the Internet Explorer display engine while "Logos for Mac 1" used the Safari 4 for display.  Faithlife corporation changed the software architecture for Logos 4 to use Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) and write a Native OS X interface for the presentation layer while using C# in .NET Framework and Open Source Mono that allows substantial code base sharing between Windows and OS X.

Andrew:
... I don't expect Logos to work with WINE or the commercial variant Crossover by code weavers since Logos uses very recent libraries in their Windows version, which is why a current version of Logos has not worked with Wine in years

Funding is lacking to create an open source alternative for WPF => http://www.infoq.com/news/2011/03/WPF-Mono and => http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/wpf/ WPF subset is Silverlight, which has Moonlight open source project.  Apologies: do not know if Silverlight has enough display capabilities for Logos application, especially Hebrew and highlighting.

Dan Francis:
just wanting to point out that the mac version is running on a UNIX kernel

Apple uses Darwin, which is a BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution) variant that is available for installation; wikipedia has => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Darwin

Apple includes and contributes to many Open Source projects => http://opensource.apple.com/

BSD licensing is permissive free use => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses

while Linux licensing is copyleft => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft

Android licensing is another permissive free use => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_License

Faithlife Corporation develops applications for OS X and apps for Android.

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Posts 1003
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 1:20 PM

.NET is due to be released as open source this year and made to run on linux by microsoft. I have no idea if this will help but... it would be nice if it does help;)

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 2:31 PM

John Goodman:

.NET is due to be released as open source this year and made to run on linux by microsoft. I have no idea if this will help but... it would be nice if it does help;)

Microsoft News => http://news.microsoft.com/2014/11/12/microsoft-takes-net-open-source-and-cross-platform-adds-new-development-capabilities-with-visual-studio-2015-net-2015-and-visual-studio-online/ (includes "Visual Studio Community 2013 is a free, fully featured edition of Visual Studio") and Openness Team blog => http://openness.microsoft.com/blog/2014/11/12/open-net-visual-studio/ 

Visual Studio Community 2013 only runs on Windows => http://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-community-vs.aspx

For Faithlife development that shares .NET code on Windows and OS X, the cross platform capabilities should be helpful.

Github has dotnet => https://github.com/Microsoft/dotnet with Open Source development projects => https://github.com/Microsoft/dotnet/blob/master/dotnet-developer-projects.md that includes WPF Application Framework (WAF) => http://waf.codeplex.com/ "lightweight Framework that helps you to create well structured WPF Applications" and Radical => https://github.com/RadicalFx/radical "infrastructure framework whose primary role is to help in the development of composite WPF/Silverlight/WP/WinRT applications based on the Model View ViewModel pattern."

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 161
David Roberts | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 10:27 PM

If you put out a poll, I suspect you'd get a lot more people wanting a Holographic version of Logos for Windows 10...

J.A.R.V.I.S I want the letter of Polycarp up on my wall thanks. :p

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 11:01 PM

I'll bet that if you put out a poll, people would not know about the holographic stuff MS is doing....

Since Windows 10 is slated to be a rental OS rather than a purchase and own, this could be a game changer. Can't wait to see what they charge and adoption rates. Finding people who actually like Windows 8.1 is rare enough that it is note worthy in my mind.... Most people don't see to care for the latest GUI on Ubuntu, the latest version of Gnome, the latest version of Windows..... KDE users seem to be happy as are the Mac people. Could be an interesting next couple of years to see where this is going.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 11:05 PM

Okay - give me some statistics that are not computer geek but a cross-section similar to the Logos base. Speculation as to what polls might say about an announced but not released product is a sad waste of mental energy.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 61
David J. Ring, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 25 2015 10:16 AM
Andrew, Do not be put off by any comments, I thought your comments, although incedental, to be very interesting. I moved from Ubuntu to Arch then to easier Manjaro and installed the easier to use updated GNOME and added gnome-panel which gives me the old menu based interface. Be well, David
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John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 25 2015 4:47 PM

Feel free to add your votes to the uservoice request for linux...

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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