There are 4 King James Version in Logos: 1769, 1873, 1900 (repeated). So, which one is "the standard of King James Version"?
See this post from Bob Pritchett (although the whole thread is interesting): http://community.logos.com/forums/p/5359/42002.aspx#42002
(Although I only have 3 KJVs. Not sure what the 4th one is you're seeing, unless it's the apocrypha)
Thanks so much. This is helpful.
yup, I mean the apocrypha.
I KNOW THIS POST WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT THE MODERN "Logos" software does not have the 1769, 1873 available. Also they have changed the KJV 1900 to match the "New Translations" layout. For instance, the "Song of Deborah" in Judges 5 is laid out by the new translations as if it is poetry. Logos has made the KJV 1900 to look the same. No KJV Bible has ever had that scripture laid out as a poem. It is clearly prophecy. Maybe they are trying to condition KJV users to accept the new translations.
LLS:WS_0_12021-05-21T17:00:27ZWS_0_1.logos4 is the 1769
LLS:1.0.32016-11-23T21:52:22ZKJV.logos4 is the 1769
LLS:AV18732020-08-14T18:13:00ZAV1873.logos4RVI:AV1873NT2020-08-14T17:55:25ZAV1873NT.lbsrviRVI:AV1873OT2020-08-14T17:55:25ZAV1873OT.lbsrvi are the 1873
So, which one is "the standard of King James Version"?
You mean the current version authorized by the Church of England? outside that, there is no standard version. The answer is none.
Versions of the Bible and of the Psalms The Church of England does not authorise particular translations of the Bible. For a list of translations that have been judged suitable for reading in church during the course of public worship see the Church of England website.
The Church of England does not authorise particular translations of the Bible. For a list of translations that have been judged suitable for reading in church during the course of public worship see the Church of England website.
For instance, the "Song of Deborah" in Judges 5 is laid out by the new translations as if it is poetry. Logos has made the KJV 1900 to look the same. No KJV Bible has ever had that scripture laid out as a poem. It is clearly prophecy
Please coudl you expand on what you mean here?
The only paper version of the KJV I have access to is a Schofield Bible produced in 1967 which claims to be based on the 1611 text
As far as I can see in that book, there is no "genre formatting" at all - distinguishing between prophecy and poetry (or anything else)
What are you expecting to see to distinguish poetry and prophecy?
Please provide screenshots using the paperclip icon if you can.
Online as my paper copies are packed away: Judges 5 | KJV Bible | YouVersion has the song formated as poetry.
No KJV Bible has ever had that scripture laid out as a poem.
Well, that's not exactly true. Cambridge (citing the original KJV copyright patents) paper-formats the early songs (Moses, Judges, etc). As MJ mentions, likely it's publisher dependent.
But the formatting appears to be a 'when' issue. Up through the 1700s, the above poetry/prophesy were not formatted in Logos (including the 1769 KJV). Starting in the 1800s, they generalky are formatted, even the paragraph editions (not versified).
Here is what I mean. This is from the KJV 1900 (Logos Bible Software). I put it in a MSWord file because I do not know how to insert a "Print Screen" document. If you cannot open it I will try some other way. Thank you . 1581.KJV 1900 Logos Bible Software.docx
One more thing. If you compare the inserted page with the Scofield and then look at some of the New Translations (NIV, ESV, NASB et al in the Logos software) you will see that they formatted this as if it is poetry. You will see the same phenomenon in Exodus 15 which is the "Song of Moses." If you look at the Psalm 1, 2, 3 in the New Translations they are set out as if they were written in verse format of a poem. For instance here is the way Psalm 3:1-6 is formatted in the ESV:
1 O LORD, how many are my foes! Many are rising against me; 2 many are saying of my soul, “There is no salvation for him in God.” Selah
3 But you, O LORD, are a shield about me, my glory, and the lifter of my head. 4 I cried aloud to the LORD, and he answered me from his holy hill. Selah
5 I lay down and slept; I woke again, for the LORD sustained me. 6 I will not be afraid of many thousands of people who have set themselves against me all around
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Ps 3:1–6.
The KJV has it this way:
1how are they increased that trouble me! many are they that rise up against me. 2 Many there be which say of my soul, There is no help for him in God. Selah. 3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head. 4 I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and he heard me out of his holy hill. Selah. 5 I laid me down and slept; I awaked; for the LORD sustained me. 6 I will not be afraid of ten thousands of people, that have set themselves against me round about.
King James Version (WORDsearch Edition) (WORDsearch, n.d.), Ps 3:1–6.
We are not talking about the earlier editions but the KJV 1900 produced by Logos
There are much better experts than I on all the editions of the KJV. But the print editions I have seen, with exception of the Cambridge Paragraph edition, have had a new line for every verse. And so, in general, the "problem" is not that certain passages are printed as poetry, but rather that EVERYTHING is printed as poetry, including passages that are almost certainly prose.
I KNOW THIS POST WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT THE MODERN "Logos" software does not have the 1769, 1873 available.
Concur Benjamin Blayney's 1769 Authorized Version is currently not available for purchase. Thankful for my purchase years ago.
1873 AV is available for purchase => The Authorized English Version (1873) with Reverse Interlinear
Also NCPB was published after this thread started => The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible with the Apocrypha, rev. ed. (NCPB)
AMG offers a Word Study KJV Bible => The Complete Word Study: Old & New Testament (2 vols.)
No KJV Bible has ever had that scripture laid out as a poem. Well, that's not exactly true. Cambridge (citing the original KJV copyright patents) paper-formats the early songs (Moses, Judges, etc). As MJ mentions, likely it's publisher dependent.
Thomas Nelson published The Open Bible edition of KJV in 1975 having print convention of verse numbers always being left most in a column, with poetry formatting in Exodus 15 & Judges 5 (line breaks within numbered verses). Thomas Nelson also has 1975 copyright for Regency Publishing House: Freedom Edition of King James Version, which does not have poetry formatting (has verse number alignment being left most). In 1948, New Standard Reference Bible published by The John A. Hertel Co. in Chicago has left most verse # without poetry formatting.
FWIW: my 1975 Open Bible has manually added Bible Tabs so can open to page 835 with Tabs to the right being: "MALACHI", "NEW TEST", "MATTHEW", "ZEPHANIAH", "HAGGAI", "ZECHARIAH" (my oops for placing "ZEPHANIAH" tab two spots down from "HABBAKKUK" allowed me to write & highlight in this Bible => later found my highlighting obscured text when revisiting passages as had more to learn from & about God). Thankful for Visual Filter highlighting and Notes in Logos & Verbum that can be displayed as desired.
Keep Smiling [:)]
Here is what I mean. This is from the KJV 1900 (Logos Bible Software).
Jerry, I think we all agree that there are editions of the KJV that are not in poetic format. The point is that there are also editions of the KJV that do use the poetic forms. There is no single format that is "the KJV" format. Unfortunately, I'm feeling too lazy to track down the early edition in poetic form.
That is my point. The publishers do what they want to with the text of the KJV. There have been word changes and other alterations. The complaint I have with Logos is that they do not provide a KJV text that is free from their editing. The KJV 1900 does is a case in point. The paragraph Cambridge text is available by other publishers in one verse per line format. I am not convinced that Logos is not a little "anti" KJV. I have communicated with one of their editors and I am confident he is not favorable toward the KJV. My question is to Logos why can they not provide KJV text in formats that have been used historically. The first electronic Bible software I used was the e-sword by Rick Meyers. He provided the 1769 Cambridge which is not in paragraph format. Logos has it in paragraph format and I have not found a way to make it one verse per line. As best I know now is that Logos has the KJV in three formats: KJV 1900, KJV (WS) and KJV Cambridge Paragraph.
The music industry is the same way. Songs are released and then arrangers have their way with them.
Logos has it in paragraph format and I have not found a way to make it one verse per line.
Visual Filter menu (three dots) includes "One verse per line" in Resource formatting (so paragraph 1769 AV can appear one verse per line)
Inverted screen shot image of paragraph formatted 1769 AV as One Verse per line:
I am not convinced that Logos is not a little "anti" KJV. I have communicated with one of their editors and I am confident he is not favorable toward the KJV.
Well, now, I'd agree with that, pretty much. Though anything 'majority text' is generally held in ill-repute. Unless it's linked to the Eastern Orthodox. Then, it's fine.
I'm a majority-texter, but only because the alternative is even worse.
Thank you my friend but I do not have access (nor is it found for sale) to the 1769: Authorized Version. I did not acquire Logos until January 2021 when WordSearch (WS) sold their software to Logos. At first I had access to another edition of the KJV but that no longer exists. The only KJV Bible I have access to is the KJV 1900, KJV (WS) and the KJV Cambridge Paragraph. I tried to find a place to make it "one line per verse" but that too does not exist. To be honest with you I am getting a bit disgusted with Logos. It is almost like they are treating WS customers differently. They were to bring all the resources I had in WS and there are still some that have not been converted although I was told they had completed the conversion process. Thanks for your help. If you have a copy of the 1769: Authorized Version for sale I am a good potential customer.
The publishers do what they want to with the text of the KJV. There have been word changes and other alterations
This has been true from the beginning which is why there is no ur-text Authorized version. Not to mention all those without the apocrypha.deuterocanonicals is untrue to the original.
The only KJV Bible I have access to is the KJV 1900, KJV (WS) and the KJV Cambridge Paragraph. I tried to find a place to make it "one line per verse" but that too does not exist.
The KJV (WS) can be made into a single verse per line, however I do not when this is done, the chapter numbers disappear in the example below of Psalms for chapters 3 onwards.
I have been a TR advocate because I have compared the "Majority Text" of Hodges and Farstad and they take a lot of liberties and even have some Critical Text readings that are not easy to find. At one time Zane Hodges was a "Majority Text" advocate and at that time it was a reference to the TR. That was changed when he and Farstad published the Greek Testament According to the Majority Text with Thomas Nelson. As far as I am concerned it is an eclectic text of the Greek NT. Hodges goal was to produce a Byzantine text with a critical apparatus which he accomplished but if one checks the apparatus they will find some of the Critical text readings creeping in. Just a thought. I am glad you use the Majority Text and hope your tribe increases. There are not many around and that probably explains Thomas Nelson not producing any further editions. Also, the two editors are both deceased.
But it DOES EXIST and you already have it!
Although the KJV (WS) does not identify itself as a 1769. A few months back somebody did a comparison of different KJVs and the WordSearch edition appears to be the 1769. As I show below, the KJV (WS) CAN be displayed in a one verse per line.
I do not know which of these are currently available. Some were included in earlier Logos bundles and the WS is not available for purchase, but came over in the transition. I CONCUR that it is difficult to find many of these in the Logos Website [sometimes I have to search for KJV, King James, Cambridge, Authorized, etc.) But to accuse Faithlife of an anti-TR bias when I have 7 different resources in this translation family seems (in my opinion) a little harsh.
Additionally, I found an English KJV that is included in a bundle from the Brazil Bible Society - Authorized King James Version | Logos Bible Software
I'm smiling. First, using the FL site, you describe your concurance with the chaotic KJV situation. Then, describe 7 different resources, of which most(?) can't be purchased ... which ones kind of demands already having them. And this conversation goes back .... way, way back. Some participants are already in Heaven reaping their rewards. And lastly (as with most older resources; Bibles, OL), it's quite difficult to determine what FL is using as a source (doesn't just pick on KJV, whew). Then ... there's the FL blog ... and ... the FL forum.
Thanks for reviving a ~11.5 yrs old post! It is interesting to see my own naïve questions that long ago (and having others addressing them nicely anyway.)
Others has said a lot already. Just to sum up
1. Regardless the "specially formatted version" of Bible you have, Logos ultimately gave the end user the power to format it the way you want. This is a very useful feature, especially combined with something like discourse analysis, etc. that you may find multiple different "visual filter" useful in different situations.
2. It is simple to speculate Logos somehow is evil and trying to impose their bias on you. But trust us they have no ill intent. And if you give them the benefits of doubt first and you'll find it easier to resolve/understand the problem you're dealing with. Claiming Logos is "anti-JKV", "treating WS customers differently", etc. may sounds like an easy answer to an apparent situation. But in the real world Logos is a business and what you said is anti-business. It will be hard to understand, in terms of business, how Logos can becomes such a large Bible software company if they are doing that. In the end, it is hard to be completely bias-free. I'm certain they are trying hard to be bias-free and please everyone. If only all the users are doing just that (to be bias-free) though.
IMHO, anyone who cling to the past and think JKV is somehow the best; Authorized version is somehow "the only authorized version", Majority is the best, TR is the best, whatever, is a huge bias limiting their potential growth. To be bias-free, I think it is fair to say that all Bible translations has their pros and cons (each has their own unintentional bias, some are limited by the knowledge of their time), all manuscripts should be judged by what it is (certainly text types should be one of the factor but not the final one.) For those who believe otherwise, I think it is their responsibility to argue why such believe is not a bias.
P.S. there's now 6 different JKVs in my library. Some said 7 and I'm not sure which one I'm missing. May be the only actual "new version" is the recent conversion from WordSearch:
Shall we now debated the TR vs. PATr?
It could be tricky to stay within the forum guidelines. That said, Logos does offer both editions of TR and an edition of PATr, so you can compare their differences
This is going to be my final post on this issue. A couple of the participants speak of having 6 or 7 editions of the KJV and I do not doubt that. They probably have if from being a long time user of Logos. I am new to the program and find that only three editions of the KJV are available to me. Because I am a Word Search customer being transported to Logos I have access to the KJV (WS), the KJV 1900 (evidently formatted by Logos staff) and the Cambridge Paragraph edition. The only question to Logos is why do you not want to provide KJV editions that the customer has a desire to use, especially if they had copies of it earlier? Thank all of you who have tried to help me with the problems I have with Logos and those who have helped me with operating the software. God bless you and have a good day.
There are 1,069 items available listed under king james. You might find something here.
https://www.logos.com/search?query=king%20james&sortBy=Relevance&limit=15&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=availableToMe
I feel your pain. It is not a problem specific to King James Version. E.g. consider different versions of a version, say, NASB. They have revisions, and people cannot buy older revisions or original version. That's a bigger problem (beyond formatting) that they cannot e.g. research how the different revisions has evolve over time. A quick search shows all 3 revisions of NASB are currently available here, but the same probably is not true for other translations.
Another example is Peter O'Brien's books. We can't buy them anymore.
Those I mentioned is basically a problem from the publishers—they do not wish to sell them anymore due to various reasons.
For those KJVs, I'm not sure why. But there are reasons behind it. Again, calling it "anti-KJV" is one (conspiracy) theory, but on the other hand, especially given the context (that this post 11.5 yrs ago is asking why they are so many copies of seemingly the same version), another possible reason is just that they want to deduplicate (and trust that their "visual filter" feature is good enough to replicate other formats.
But who knows, and why should you care about it? At least you have the one from WordSearch that you have been using and works for you.
There are 1,069 items available listed under king james. You might find something here. https://www.logos.com/search?query=king%20james&sortBy=Relevance&limit=15&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=availableToMe
This is (unintentionally) deceptive as NKJV is included.
Faithlife has provided to you what you had in Wordsearch, both myself and others have demonstrated how to change the formatting to what you desire. So I and others don’t understand your issue.
He does mention
The only question to Logos is why do you not want to provide KJV editions that the customer has a desire to use, especially if they had copies of it earlier?
which is not entirely unreasonable. (And I hope I‘ve answer that in some way.)
Yes, to be fair to the OP, visual display is not so straightforward. I tried getting Judges 5 (one of the passages mentioned) to be displayed as it would in a verse-per-line print version, and I can only do it with the Wordsearch KJV text, not the KJV1900 one. In the latter, the poetic line breaks remain. I think a proper verse-by-verse edition should be made available as it is with the NASB1995, which comes in two downloads.
But it does exist in Logos.…
He does mention The only question to Logos is why do you not want to provide KJV editions that the customer has a desire to use, especially if they had copies of it earlier? which is not entirely unreasonable. (And I hope I‘ve answer that in some way.)
For the same reason that people wanting the Knox Bible can't get it, or wanting the Community Translation can't get it, or wanting the original Jerusalem Bible can't get it (and they need it for liturgy), or ... you get the picture.
