4 King James Version in Logos

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This post has 36 Replies | 2 Followers

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Feb 22 2010 12:10 AM

There are 4 King James Version in Logos: 1769, 1873, 1900 (repeated). So, which one is "the standard of King James Version"?

Posts 5637
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 22 2010 12:41 AM

Kolen Cheung:

There are 4 King James Version in Logos: 1769, 1873, 1900 (repeated). So, which one is "the standard of King James Version"?

See this post from Bob Pritchett (although the whole thread is interesting): http://community.logos.com/forums/p/5359/42002.aspx#42002

(Although I only have 3 KJVs.  Not sure what the 4th one is you're seeing, unless it's the apocrypha)

 

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Posts 1055
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 22 2010 1:19 AM

Thanks so much. This is helpful.

yup, I mean the apocrypha.

Posts 11
Jerry Rockwell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2021 5:28 AM

I KNOW THIS POST WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT THE MODERN "Logos" software does not have the 1769, 1873 available. Also they have changed the KJV 1900 to match the "New Translations" layout. For instance, the "Song of Deborah" in Judges 5 is laid out by the new translations as if it is poetry. Logos has made the KJV 1900 to look the same. No KJV Bible has ever had that scripture laid out as a poem. It is clearly prophecy. Maybe they are trying to condition KJV users to accept the new translations.

Posts 2728
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2021 12:17 PM

LLS:WS_0_1
2021-05-21T17:00:27Z
WS_0_1.logos4  is the 1769

LLS:1.0.3
2016-11-23T21:52:22Z
KJV.logos4   is the 1769

LLS:AV1873
2020-08-14T18:13:00Z
AV1873.logos4
RVI:AV1873NT
2020-08-14T17:55:25Z
AV1873NT.lbsrvi
RVI:AV1873OT
2020-08-14T17:55:25Z
AV1873OT.lbsrvi  are the 1873

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 5 2021 2:21 PM

Kolen Cheung:
So, which one is "the standard of King James Version"?

You mean the current version authorized by the Church of England? outside that, there is no standard version. The answer is none.

Diocese of London:

Versions of the Bible and of the Psalms

The Church of England does not authorise particular translations of the Bible. For a list of translations that have been judged suitable for reading in church during the course of public worship see the Church of England website.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 7:01 AM

Jerry Rockwell:
For instance, the "Song of Deborah" in Judges 5 is laid out by the new translations as if it is poetry. Logos has made the KJV 1900 to look the same. No KJV Bible has ever had that scripture laid out as a poem. It is clearly prophecy

Please coudl you expand on what you mean here?

The only paper version of the KJV I have access to is a Schofield Bible produced in 1967 which claims to be based on the 1611 text

As far as I can see in that book, there is no "genre formatting" at all - distinguishing between prophecy and poetry (or anything else)

What are you expecting to see to distinguish poetry and prophecy?

Please provide screenshots using the paperclip icon if you can.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 7:15 AM

Online as my paper copies are packed away: Judges 5 | KJV Bible | YouVersion has the song formated as poetry.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1428
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 8:24 AM

Jerry Rockwell:
No KJV Bible has ever had that scripture laid out as a poem.

Well, that's not exactly true. Cambridge (citing the original KJV copyright patents) paper-formats the early songs (Moses, Judges, etc). As MJ mentions, likely it's publisher dependent.

But the formatting appears to be a 'when' issue. Up through the 1700s, the above poetry/prophesy were not formatted in Logos (including the 1769 KJV). Starting in the 1800s, they generalky are formatted, even the paragraph editions (not versified).

Posts 11
Jerry Rockwell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 11:32 AM

Here is what I mean. This is from the KJV 1900 (Logos Bible Software). I put it in a MSWord file because I do not know how to insert a "Print Screen" document. If you cannot open it I will try some other way. Thank you . 1581.KJV 1900 Logos Bible Software.docx

Posts 11
Jerry Rockwell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 11:47 AM

One more thing. If you compare the inserted page with the Scofield and then look at some of the New Translations (NIV, ESV, NASB et al in the Logos software) you will see that they formatted this as if it is poetry. You will see the same phenomenon in Exodus 15 which is the "Song of Moses." If you look at the Psalm 1, 2, 3 in the New Translations they are set out as if they were written in verse format of a poem. For instance here is the way Psalm 3:1-6 is formatted in the ESV:


1  O LORD,  how many are my foes!
Many are rising against me;
2  many are saying of my soul,
“There is no salvation for him in God.” Selah

3  But you, O LORD, are a shield about me,
my glory, and the lifter of my head.
4  I cried aloud to the LORD,
and he answered me from his holy hill. Selah

5  I lay down and slept;
I woke again, for the LORD sustained me.
6  I will not be afraid of many thousands of people
who have set themselves against me all around

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Ps 3:1–6.

The KJV has it this way:

1how are they increased that trouble me! many are they that rise up against me.
2 Many there be which say of my soul, There is no help for him in God. Selah.
3 But thou, O LORD, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.
4 I cried unto the LORD with my voice, and he heard me out of his holy hill. Selah.
5 I laid me down and slept; I awaked; for the LORD sustained me.
6 I will not be afraid of ten thousands of people, that have set themselves against me round about.


King James Version (WORDsearch Edition) (WORDsearch, n.d.), Ps 3:1–6.

Posts 11
Jerry Rockwell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 11:48 AM

We are not talking about the earlier editions but the KJV 1900 produced by Logos

Posts 1927
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 1:19 PM

There are much better experts than I on all the editions of the KJV. But the print editions I have seen, with exception of the Cambridge Paragraph edition, have had a new line for every verse. And so, in general, the "problem" is not that certain passages are printed as poetry, but rather that EVERYTHING is printed as poetry, including passages that are almost certainly prose.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 1:25 PM

Jerry Rockwell:
I KNOW THIS POST WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT THE MODERN "Logos" software does not have the 1769, 1873 available.

Concur Benjamin Blayney's 1769 Authorized Version is currently not available for purchase. Thankful for my purchase years ago.

1873 AV is available for purchase => The Authorized English Version (1873) with Reverse Interlinear

Also NCPB was published after this thread started => The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible with the Apocrypha, rev. ed. (NCPB)

AMG offers a Word Study KJV Bible => The Complete Word Study: Old & New Testament (2 vols.)

DMB:

Jerry Rockwell:
No KJV Bible has ever had that scripture laid out as a poem.

Well, that's not exactly true. Cambridge (citing the original KJV copyright patents) paper-formats the early songs (Moses, Judges, etc). As MJ mentions, likely it's publisher dependent.

Thomas Nelson published The Open Bible edition of KJV in 1975 having print convention of verse numbers always being left most in a column, with poetry formatting in Exodus 15 & Judges 5 (line breaks within numbered verses). Thomas Nelson also has 1975 copyright for Regency Publishing House: Freedom Edition of King James Version, which does not have poetry formatting (has verse number alignment being left most). In 1948, New Standard Reference Bible published by The John A. Hertel Co. in Chicago has left most verse # without poetry formatting.

FWIW: my 1975 Open Bible has manually added Bible Tabs so can open to page 835 with Tabs to the right being: "MALACHI", "NEW TEST", "MATTHEW", "ZEPHANIAH", "HAGGAI", "ZECHARIAH" (my oops for placing "ZEPHANIAH" tab two spots down from "HABBAKKUK" allowed me to write & highlight in this Bible => later found my highlighting obscured text when revisiting passages as had more to learn from & about God). Thankful for Visual Filter highlighting and Notes in Logos & Verbum that can be displayed as desired. 

Keep Smiling Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 4:25 PM

Jerry Rockwell:
Here is what I mean. This is from the KJV 1900 (Logos Bible Software).

Jerry, I think we all agree that there are editions of the KJV that are not in poetic format. The point is that there are also editions of the KJV that do use the poetic forms. There is no single format that is "the KJV" format. Unfortunately, I'm feeling too lazy to track down the early edition in poetic form.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 11
Jerry Rockwell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 4:43 PM

That is my point. The publishers do what they want to with the text of the KJV. There have been word changes and other alterations. The complaint I have with Logos is that they do not provide a KJV text that is free from their editing. The KJV 1900 does is a case in point. The paragraph Cambridge text is available by other publishers in one verse per line format. I am not convinced that Logos is not a little "anti" KJV. I have communicated with one of their editors and I am confident he is not favorable toward the KJV. My question is to Logos why can they not provide KJV text in formats that have been used historically. The first electronic Bible software I used was the e-sword by Rick Meyers. He provided the 1769 Cambridge which is not in paragraph format. Logos has it in paragraph format and I have not found a way to make it one verse per line. As best I know now is that Logos has the KJV in three formats: KJV 1900, KJV (WS) and KJV Cambridge Paragraph. 

 

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Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 5:01 PM

The music industry is the same way. Songs are released and then arrangers have their way with them.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 5:08 PM

Jerry Rockwell:
Logos has it in paragraph format and I have not found a way to make it one verse per line.

Visual Filter menu (three dots) includes "One verse per line" in Resource formatting (so paragraph 1769 AV can appear one verse per line)

Inverted screen shot image of paragraph formatted 1769 AV as One Verse per line:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1428
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 5:35 PM

Jerry Rockwell:
I am not convinced that Logos is not a little "anti" KJV. I have communicated with one of their editors and I am confident he is not favorable toward the KJV.

Well, now, I'd agree with that, pretty much. Though anything 'majority text' is generally held in ill-repute. Unless it's linked to the Eastern Orthodox. Then, it's fine.

I'm a majority-texter, but only because the alternative is even worse.

Posts 11
Jerry Rockwell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 6 2021 7:05 PM

Thank you my friend but I do not have access (nor is it found for sale) to the 1769: Authorized Version. I did not acquire Logos until January 2021 when WordSearch (WS) sold their software to Logos. At first I had access to another edition of the KJV but that no longer exists. The only KJV Bible I have access to is the KJV 1900, KJV (WS) and the KJV Cambridge Paragraph. I tried to find a place to make it "one line per verse" but that too does not exist. To be honest with you I am getting a bit disgusted with Logos. It is almost like they are treating WS customers differently. They were to bring all the resources I had in WS and there are still some that have not been converted although I was told they had completed the conversion process. Thanks for your help. If you have a copy of the 1769: Authorized Version for sale I am a good potential customer. 

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