NAC Sale, Except 1 Corinthians?

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Posts 8142
DAL | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jan 21 2016 6:58 PM

 Come on, really?  Seems like all the NAC volumes are on sale for $7.99 except the first Corinthian's volume.   Is this a huge mistake or is it really not on sale; if not on sale, then why not?  This is not a complaint but I'm just wondering why all the volumes, except for 1 Corinthians, are on sale? It makes no sense. Maybe an oversight as usual. I hope it is because I'm only missing that volume. I'd rather pay $7.99 than $19.99 per dynamic pricing :)

DAL

Posts 238
Charles | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 7:00 PM

Revelation is also missing.  

In Christ,

Charles

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Posts 20
Jerry Foster | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 7:03 PM

Hmm, I got Revelation for $7.99.  Like the original poster said, the only one I see not on sale is 1  Corinthians.  Odd.

Posts 602
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 7:07 PM

I see Revelation for $7.99 even though I already have it and the whole set except 1 Corinthians. If I buy the whole set, I get a dynamic price of $19.99 for 1 Corinthians. If I buy it separately, the price is $25.99. 

41 of the volumes in the set are on sale at $7.99 individually. That's $327.59. Add in 1 Corinthians for $25.99 and the total comes to $353.58. When I logged out of my account, the total to buy the 42 volumes as a set was $529.99. So, unless this is an error, it is better to purchase the individual volumes separately and not as a set.

Posts 1580
Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 7:29 PM

Yes it is very weird that the NAC 1 Corinthians is not on sale for $7.99 like all of the rest Hmm very weird indeed !

Posts 2123
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 7:32 PM

DAL:

 Come on, really?  Seems like all the NAC volumes are on sale for $7.99 except the first Corinthian's volume.   Is this a huge mistake or is it really not on sale; if not on sale, then why not?  This is not a complaint but I'm just wondering why all the volumes, except for 1 Corinthians, are on sale? It makes no sense. Maybe an oversight as usual. I hope it is because I'm only missing that volume. I'd rather pay $7.99 than $19.99 per dynamic pricing :)

DAL

1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose. It recently shipped off Pre-Pub, and we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program.

Posts 461
Robert Harner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 8:06 PM

I just saw the email for this sale and clicked on "Library of New Testament Studies" - it changed Logos.com to some other language than English, not sure what. It took a while to get it back. Turns out I have everything in the 3 series except . . . the usual suspect

Posts 173
Kevin Olson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 21 2016 8:28 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose. It recently shipped off Pre-Pub, and we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program.

Thanks for clarifying.  I wish it was on sale,  but understand protecting the people who purchased pre-pub.  

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 4:37 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose. It recently shipped off Pre-Pub, and we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program.

That totally makes sense, although I was personally disappointed to see that it wasn't included as it is the only one I am missing.

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Posts 8142
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 6:15 AM

Don't worry, I'll come back and elaborate on this picture when I get home and turn my laptop on :D Meanwhile, can anybody answer when was NAC 1 Cor. Released? I need a date, please.

Posts 391
Geo Philips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 6:31 AM

DAL,

It was released Oct 1. I was on the prepub so I got it for 19.99.

I understand Logos' motivation for not putting this on sale, since it would completely devalue getting it on Prepub if waiting for three months nets you an even bigger discount.

No point needling Logos with the Amazon screenshot. We all have had this discussion before. I have many Kindle monographs but I find most Kindle commentaries I have do not get used.

Posts 948
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 7:16 AM

Is three months not long enough to now make it available at the sale price?  None of us are clairvoyant enough to know when something might go on sale in the future, that's why we do sales like the PP when we do.  1 Cor. is my last remaining one, but I won't jump for $19, or $27 now.  I would at $7.99.

Posts 391
Geo Philips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 7:25 AM

I don't know what the right time is, but I do think 3 months is too short for a pre-pub to be devalued.

Again, this is in the Logos context. Its a result of their business model. The closest analogy I can think of is perhaps digital games or movies, where you pay a discounted preorder price, then it jumps to retail price on release and then gets massively discounted below even pre-order, sometimes 2 or 3 months later depending on commercial success.

I think the issue with commentaries is that no one is really sitting and reading them cover to cover, plus it is not exactly going to rock the bestseller charts anyway. So Logos, in my opinion, is doing the right thing by ensuring those who subscribe to its prepubs enjoy a longer period of price exclusivity.

Posts 1585
Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 7:52 AM

The problem with these sales for commentary junkies is deciding when to stop spending!

Does anyone want to persuade me that I'm wrong to not have any of the following from the NAC series in my Logos library, as I now have the rest:

Deuteronomy

Job (have in Kindle when it was $1.99 - doubt I'll preach much from Job)

Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, SofS - seems too brief and doubt I'll preach much from these books

Ezekiel - seems to be too brief a commentary for a long book

Daniel

1, 2 Thessalonians - rated as accessible, but not penetrating only by DA Carson

1, 2 Timothy & Titus - rated as competent but bland by DA Carson

James - poor exegesis according to DA Carson

Revelation (have in Kindle when it was $1.99; plus I have over a dozen Rev commentaries in Logos)

I do have plenty of commentaries on all these books, so I'm interested if anyone has found any of the above indispensable.

Posts 391
Geo Philips | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 8:37 AM

Generally, I do not find the NAC to be a go-to for any indepth study. They are always competent, and many of them are exceptionally readable.

I would say pick the volumes where you are lacking in coverage otherwise and maybe add on my strategy of getting volumes written by those I have a fondness for.

Now, the NAC series on theology is a great series but that is offtopic!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 8:50 AM

Everett Headley:

Is three months not long enough to now make it available at the sale price?  None of us are clairvoyant enough to know when something might go on sale in the future, that's why we do sales like the PP when we do.  1 Cor. is my last remaining one, but I won't jump for $19, or $27 now.  I would at $7.99.

I think it is a tough situation for FL because they will "get it" no matter what they decide... however, I am in agreement with you. Smile

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Posts 8142
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 10:42 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose. It recently shipped off Pre-Pub, and we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program.

 

Alright, I'm home!

First, I want to make clear I'm not attacking anybody or demanding anything from Faithlife (so those who are too sensitive, make sure you understand this before you continue reading, because you might just ignore the point and let your sensitivity get in the way and start unnecessary arguments).

Anyway, Phil, would you please explain what the value of the Pre-pub program is? I ask because as far as I know, there is no value to it.  According to the website, the purpose of the prepub program is to help a resource get converted to Logos format.  All FL is doing is giving a minor discount to attract users and sometimes, depending on the publisher, not even a discount is offered.  At other times, the price starts out low for prepublications and then it goes up before it releases, and then it goes up even more after it releases.  So what value are you talking about? The only value FL put in prepublications was the unrealistic statement made in the past, mainly the one about the "prepub price being the lowest price ever." Of course, we all know that went flying out the window, because it was unrealistic and there was no way for Logos to honor it in a consistent and truthful way.

Now let me explain to you briefly why there is no value in the prepublication program: 1) You have to pay upfront when the resource "ships" without a chance to add it to a payment plan, so even with the "discount" you're no different than the others who buy the resource later after it ships at "regular price." (Though, we all know most of the time there's always a discount anyway and the chance to put it on payment plan after it releases).  So in a way, prepub it's worse than getting it later (Yes, there are some exceptions, but they're not enough to justify mentioning them). 2) You don't even get early access to the resource.  There are times when those who buy a base package get early access to a resource that is on prepub than those who didn't buy the base package and just ordered the resource on prepub.  So what's the value if there is no early access? Everybody can get the resource the same day it ships, regardless of whether they placed a prepub or not.  3) There is no such thing as "longer price exclusivity" for placing a prepub.  Geo has been lead to believe he should have a "longer price exclusivity" before a prepub that releases it's allowed to go on sale at a lower price than the prepub price (Sorry Geo, not attacking you, just using your comment to make a point because it seems you believe there should be a "longer price exclusivity" when there's none).  I believe FL got rid of that baseless notion when they dumped the unrealistic statement "prepub price is the lowest price ever." It just made them put their foot in their mouth when some publishers started having all these great sales (e.g. Zondervan and the current publisher of the NAC series among others) and customers started giving FL heat for the falsehood of that statement.  I could mention more reasons that will totally overwhelm whatever reason you could give and you still wouldn't be able to prove that there is a "value" that needs to be protected in the prepub program.  You know what really has a value that should be protected but not over protected, Community Pricing, because we, in a sense, get to set the price.  The more prepubs we place never brings the price down.  In fact, if people bail out the resource goes back to "gathering interest" or "almost there", where as the more bids we place in CP the lower the price gets.  The purpose of both prepub and CP is to get a resource converted to Logos Format.  Now, CP does have value, where as Prepub, if you're honest, doesn't have any value to protect.  As someone stated, we're not clairvoyants to know the future and know that a resource is gonna drastically drop in price and will upset those who bought it at a higher price during prepub.  Is not our fault the Publisher decided to have a sale that marked the price lower than the prepub price for a few days.  Think about it, there is no value to protect here.  In fact, you tell us customers we won't get charge until the resource ships and that we will get a notice letting us know we will get charge soon, but that if we want to cancel, we can do so at any time.  But what happens when a lot of people cancel, we all know the resource doesn't get released, it goes back to production because you couldn't cover the costs.

Bottom line, according to FL, the purpose of the prepublication program is not to have some "special privileges" but rather it is to help bring a resource and convert it to Logos Format.  Those who sign up for a prepub are just helping get that resource converted to Logos Format and they should understand that that's all they're doing "help a resource get converted to Logos Format." That's it, nothing more, no extra privileges.  I think 31 days after a resource ships out of prepub, it should be allowed to go on sale if the Publisher wants to have a sale that lowers the price more than the prepub price.  I'm suggesting 31 days because that way FL is "protected" from those who will return the resource, just to re-buy it at a lower sale price (30 days being the "trial/return" period).  I was also thinking 3 months tops, but there are some that think 3 months is too soon, but then again, that is pretty much subjective.  Who's to say what's too soon or too long before allowing a resource to go on sale at a price that's below the prepup price.  After all, I have placed prepubs in the past, just to  see that same resource go on sale at lower prices in the future and it didn't bother me one bit.  Tough luck, I can't have it all.

Now I'm gonna tell you what bothers me, Phil.  What bothers me is the implication of your statement, "1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose." That implies that the resource IS in deed on sale, but you chose to exclude it on purpose! Your reasons for doing so don't hold any weight.  1) "It recently shipped off Pre-Pub," -- well, so what? It's been 3 months, that does not equal to "recently" in everybody's way of counting time.  As I mentioned before, it's a very subjective way of counting time.  And 2) "...we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program." Again, I ask you, "What value are you talking about?" There's none, zero! You probably had in mind the old deceiving quote, "prepub price is the lowest price ever," but that doesn't apply and it never really applied.  It's been 3 months since the 1 Corinthians volume on the NAC series shipped and now can be the time to sell a lot of copies because it's on sale, yet you (FL) excluded it on purpose when even Kindle is offering it at a lower price than their regular price! And I'm not bringing Kindle to compare the "tagging" and "features," no, Logos is superior, but the point is that Kindle is offering NAC 1 Corinthians on sale too.

You can do whatever you want with your business, but it was a bad idea on your part to say you excluded (on purpose!) the 1 Corinthians volume for the "reasons" you gave.

Anyway, that's all, but just know, you will sell a lot if you allow the volume to be on sale as it should be, instead of preventing it on purpose to go on sale.

And again, not trying to offend anybody or make demands, I'm just trying to make a fair point here.  There's really no value in the prepub program and there's no justifiable reason to prevent the 1 Cor. NAC volume to be on sale as the other volumes in the same series.

Blessings!

DAL

Ps. Here's a suggestion if you really want to give value to the prepub program.  Offer $10 bucks coupon every time someone places a prepub and keeps it instead of returning it during the 30 day "trial/return" period.  That will ensure you get more people to sign up and keep them from returning their prepub, because they really want those $10 bucks to spend later on.  Also, try to establish a fair time frame to allow a previous prepub to go on sale at a lower price.  I think 3 months tops is fair, if not sooner (31 days).  Have a nice day!

Posts 948
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 11:09 AM

DAL:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose. It recently shipped off Pre-Pub, and we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program.

 

Alright, I'm home!

First, I want to make clear I'm not attacking anybody or demanding anything from Faithlife (so those who are too sensitive, make sure you understand this before you continue reading, because you might just ignore the point and let your sensitivity get in the way and start unnecessary arguments).

Anyway, Phil, would you please explain what the value of the Pre-pub program is? I ask because as far as I know, there is no value to it.  According to the website, the purpose of the prepub program is to help a resource get converted to Logos format.  All FL is doing is giving a minor discount to attract users and sometimes, depending on the publisher, not even a discount is offered.  At other times, the price starts out low for prepublications and then it goes up before it releases, and then it goes up even more after it releases.  So what value are you talking about? The only value FL put in prepublications was the unrealistic statement made in the past, mainly the one about the "prepub price being the lowest price ever." Of course, we all know that went flying out the window, because it was unrealistic and there was no way for Logos to honor it in a consistent and truthful way.

Now let me explain to you briefly why there is no value in the prepublication program: 1) You have to pay upfront when the resource "ships" without a chance to add it to a payment plan, so even with the "discount" you're no different than the others who buy the resource later after it ships at "regular price." (Though, we all know most of the time there's always a discount anyway and the chance to put it on payment plan after it releases).  So in a way, prepub it's worse than getting it later (Yes, there are some exceptions, but they're not enough to justify mentioning them). 2) You don't even get early access to the resource.  There are times when those who buy a base package get early access to a resource that is on prepub than those who didn't buy the base package and just ordered the resource on prepub.  So what's the value if there is no early access? Everybody can get the resource the same day it ships, regardless of whether they placed a prepub or not.  3) There is no such thing as "longer price exclusivity" for placing a prepub.  Geo has been lead to believe he should have a "longer price exclusivity" before a prepub that releases it's allowed to go on sale at a lower price than the prepub price (Sorry Geo, not attacking you, just using your comment to make a point because it seems you believe there should be a "longer price exclusivity" when there's none).  I believe FL got rid of that baseless notion when they dumped the unrealistic statement "prepub price is the lowest price ever." It just made them put their foot in their mouth when some publishers started having all these great sales (e.g. Zondervan and the current publisher of the NAC series among others) and customers started giving FL heat for the falsehood of that statement.  I could mention more reasons that will totally overwhelm whatever reason you could give and you still wouldn't be able to prove that there is a "value" that needs to be protected in the prepub program.  You know what really has a value that should be protected but not over protected, Community Pricing, because we, in a sense, get to set the price.  The more prepubs we place never brings the price down.  In fact, if people bail out the resource goes back to "gathering interest" or "almost there", where as the more bids we place in CP the lower the price gets.  The purpose of both prepub and CP is to get a resource converted to Logos Format.  Now, CP does have value, where as Prepub, if you're honest, doesn't have any value to protect.  As someone stated, we're not clairvoyants to know the future and know that a resource is gonna drastically drop in price and will upset those who bought it at a higher price during prepub.  Is not our fault the Publisher decided to have a sale that marked the price lower than the prepub price for a few days.  Think about it, there is no value to protect here.  In fact, you tell us customers we won't get charge until the resource ships and that we will get a notice letting us know we will get charge soon, but that if we want to cancel, we can do so at any time.  But what happens when a lot of people cancel, we all know the resource doesn't get released, it goes back to production because you couldn't cover the costs.

Bottom line, according to FL, the purpose of the prepublication program is not to have some "special privileges" but rather it is to help bring a resource and convert it to Logos Format.  Those who sign up for a prepub are just helping get that resource converted to Logos Format and they should understand that that's all they're doing "help a resource get converted to Logos Format." That's it, nothing more, no extra privileges.  I think 31 days after a resource ships out of prepub, it should be allowed to go on sale if the Publisher wants to have a sale that lowers the price more than the prepub price.  I'm suggesting 31 days because that way FL is "protected" from those who will return the resource, just to re-buy it at a lower sale price (30 days being the "trial/return" period).  I was also thinking 3 months tops, but there are some that think 3 months is too soon, but then again, that is pretty much subjective.  Who's to say what's too soon or too long before allowing a resource to go on sale at a price that's below the prepup price.  After all, I have placed prepubs in the past, just to  see that same resource go on sale at lower prices in the future and it didn't bother me one bit.  Tough luck, I can't have it all.

Now I'm gonna tell you what bothers me, Phil.  What bothers me is the implication of your statement, "1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose." That implies that the resource IS in deed on sale, but you chose to exclude it on purpose! Your reasons for doing so don't hold any weight.  1) "It recently shipped off Pre-Pub," -- well, so what? It's been 3 months, that does not equal to "recently" in everybody's way of counting time.  As I mentioned before, it's a very subjective way of counting time.  And 2) "...we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program." Again, I ask you, "What value are you talking about?" There's none, zero! You probably had in mind the old deceiving quote, "prepub price is the lowest price ever," but that doesn't apply and it never really applied.  It's been 3 months since the 1 Corinthians volume on the NAC series shipped and now can be the time to sell a lot of copies because it's on sale, yet you (FL) excluded it on purpose when even Kindle is offering it at a lower price than their regular price! And I'm not bringing Kindle to compare the "tagging" and "features," no, Logos is superior, but the point is that Kindle is offering NAC 1 Corinthians on sale too.

You can do whatever you want with your business, but it was a bad idea on your part to say you excluded (on purpose!) the 1 Corinthians volume for the "reasons" you gave.

Anyway, that's all, but just know, you will sell a lot if you allow the volume to be on sale as it should be, instead of preventing it on purpose to go on sale.

And again, not trying to offend anybody or make demands, I'm just trying to make a fair point here.  There's really no value in the prepub program and there's no justifiable reason to prevent the 1 Cor. NAC volume to be on sale as the other volumes in the same series.

Blessings!

DAL

Ps. Here's a suggestion if you really want to give value to the prepub program.  Offer $10 bucks coupon every time someone places a prepub and keeps it instead of returning it during the 30 day "trial/return" period.  That will ensure you get more people to sign up and keep them from returning their prepub, because they really want those $10 bucks to spend later on.  Also, try to establish a fair time frame to allow a previous prepub to go on sale at a lower price.  I think 3 months tops is fair, if not sooner (31 days).  Have a nice day!

Ditto.

Posts 3742
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 11:15 AM

Content deleted, non-relevant any more.

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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Posts 1216
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 11:27 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

DAL:

 Come on, really?  Seems like all the NAC volumes are on sale for $7.99 except the first Corinthian's volume.   Is this a huge mistake or is it really not on sale; if not on sale, then why not?  This is not a complaint but I'm just wondering why all the volumes, except for 1 Corinthians, are on sale? It makes no sense. Maybe an oversight as usual. I hope it is because I'm only missing that volume. I'd rather pay $7.99 than $19.99 per dynamic pricing :)

DAL

1 Corinthians was excluded on purpose. It recently shipped off Pre-Pub, and we do our best to protect the value of the Pre-Pub program.

Then why can it not be on sale for the prepub price?

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