Study Bibles

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Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 22 2016 7:46 PM

Sam West:
But I am too old to learn Greek and Hebrew like some have suggested.

I disagree with this statement Sam. It's been proven one is never too old to workout and exercise. I will go one further and say one is never too old to learn new concepts. The adage you can't teach an old dog new tricks is just false.

Posts 989
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 7:03 AM

Dan Francis:
I am going to give you samples from all 3 of the resources I mentioned so you can see how the can complement each other.

You make your case VERY effectively!! I appreciate your suggestions very much.

They very clearly take full advantage of not having to make a specific comment on each text. Impressed!

Posts 989
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 7:31 AM

Matt Hamrick:
The adage you can't teach an old dog new tricks is just false.

I strongly agree with you about that!

When I stop learning my wife will measure me up for my box!!  However life 'aint that simple. When you arrive at the stage in life when not only are your parents generation gone but your friends are beginning to suffer classic problems of old age (and some have already departed) you realize just HOW short our time is here and just HOW many things there are that one would like to do before one is incapable of doing them.

It concentrates ones mind wondrously and one has to consider just how much one can achieve in the time left and one has to make judgements on what is very important and what just important!!

Yes, I do wish I had been disciplined enough to learn Greek & Hebrew in my younger years - but I also wish I had learned Spanish so I could have nattered to local people in the lift or shops or when just walking the dog while staying with a friend in Callao, Lima last November - and of course been able to join in with the discussion in the bible study class in the local church.     Crying 

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 1:26 PM

Sam West:

Looking at several study bibles and can’t make up my mind which one. I have logos 6 portfolio and would like to know if the resources in it would do just as good a job? Are study bibles just a commentary? Are they a good theological tool? 

I'd also like to recommend the Faithlife Study Bible that you already have, if you have Logos 6. I usually have that one open, in addition to commentaries. Study Bibles give a quick look, and as Martha said, keep you more in the text than reading about it. Good ones can also alert you to issues that may merit further study.

You ask: "Are they a good theological tool?" To which I answer "No." Study Bibles are designed to give a quick note about something in the text worth mentioning. Because of space they don't always provide alternative explanations/interpretations that may also be valid. For example, one of the study Bibles mentioned in these responses is quite one-sided in its interpretation of certain, often debated texts regard the role of women in ministry. Other study Bibles may offer multiple views on those texts with a brief explanation or summary of each. If you were to be studying that theological issue with just one study Bible, you'd get an inadequate treatment of the textual and theological issues involved. All that to say, study Bibles have limited value in developing or deepening one's theology. At best, they point out issues that could encourage more in depth study in more reliable Biblical and  theological tools.

My favorite study Bible isn't in Logos yet (the NIV Study Bible - not to be confused with the Zondervan NIV Study Bible, which is in Logos). Maybe Logos will get permission to publish it some day. I hope so.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 259
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 2:22 PM

Hi, Rich:  You like the ''NIV Study Bible.''  Can you go into its positives.  Thank you.

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 2:41 PM

scooter:

Hi, Rich:  You like the ''NIV Study Bible.''  Can you go into its positives.  Thank you.

The NIV Study Bible is not available in Logos. Though published by Zondervan, it is not the same as the Zondervan NIV Study Bible.

What I like about the NIV Study Bible are the great maps and timelines, the introductions to each book of the Bible, the extensive notes on the Psalms. The balanced and inclusive approach to to many controversial or divisive topics (women in ministry, believers/infant baptism, etc.). Charts of different sorts (e.g., qualifications for elders and deacons in Timothy and Titus). Besides general notations on the text, it has other types of notes indicated by different icons: a trowel, which indicates a note containing archaeological information; a plant (AKA "seedling"), indicating a note containing something for personal application; and a person; indicating a note with a brief character summary.

I used the NIV Study Bible in my NIV84 for almost 20 years. I now also have the NIV Study Bible for the NIV2011, which has even more notes, and color pictures of many places and objects, nicer maps (and more of them). The only downside is that it's about 2 inches thick!

I don't always agree with it, but then again the only person I always agree with is me. Wink

I would love to have this in Logos!

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 259
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 2:56 PM

I would purchase it from Logos as well.  Appreciate the detailed reply, Rich.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 3:06 PM

Rich DeRuiter:
The NIV Study Bible is not available in Logos. Though published by Zondervan, it is not the same as the Zondervan NIV Study Bible.

It's "nearly" in Logos: the https://www.logos.com/product/21069/concordia-self-study-bible is a Lutheran edition of it. The instances where its Lutheran publishers edited the original to further their denominational agenda are marked with a dagger symbol - and for most of the books of the bible, the editing can be traced in a Faithlife group's Community Notes.  

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 989
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 4:07 PM

Rich DeRuiter:
one of the study Bibles mentioned in these responses is quite one-sided in its interpretation of certain, often debated texts regard the role of women in ministry.

You wouldn't care to drop a hint as to which one would you? and which way? My money is on the one with a Scottish sounding name.

Dan did make the point that he felt that the ones he suggested were complimentary implying one to depend only on one was not ideal. I always like to know the theological bias in commentary type books, not so I will avoid them but so that I can balance them with other ones.   

Posts 5253
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 4:29 PM

He may have meant that Fortress is fairly progressive (liberal bent some would say)... ECBa is fairly conservative bent and may have meant that. FSB is perhaps more balanced than the others, I have heard enough on both sides complain it is too liberal or too conservative.

-Dan

Posts 6575
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 4:55 PM

I love my Study Bibles and made a collection of those and all my one volume Bible commentaries to supplement them. I've done quite a few lessons using those without the help of the big guns (i.e. Full Bible commentaries, lexicons and what not).  Get a few SB's you don't have to buy them all. FL Study Bible is free  as mentioned previously :)

DAL

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 6:44 PM

Rich DeRuiter:

Sam West:

Looking at several study bibles and can’t make up my mind which one. I have logos 6 portfolio and would like to know if the resources in it would do just as good a job? Are study bibles just a commentary? Are they a good theological tool? 

I'd also like to recommend the Faithlife Study Bible that you already have, if you have Logos 6. I usually have that one open, in addition to commentaries. Study Bibles give a quick look, and as Martha said, keep you more in the text than reading about it. Good ones can also alert you to issues that may merit further study.

You ask: "Are they a good theological tool?" To which I answer "No." Study Bibles are designed to give a quick note about something in the text worth mentioning. Because of space they don't always provide alternative explanations/interpretations that may also be valid. For example, one of the study Bibles mentioned in these responses is quite one-sided in its interpretation of certain, often debated texts regard the role of women in ministry. Other study Bibles may offer multiple views on those texts with a brief explanation or summary of each. If you were to be studying that theological issue with just one study Bible, you'd get an inadequate treatment of the textual and theological issues involved. All that to say, study Bibles have limited value in developing or deepening one's theology. At best, they point out issues that could encourage more in depth study in more reliable Biblical and  theological tools.

My favorite study Bible isn't in Logos yet (the NIV Study Bible - not to be confused with the Zondervan NIV Study Bible, which is in Logos). Maybe Logos will get permission to publish it some day. I hope so.

"Are they a good theological tool?" To which I answer "No."

Rick been working hard for several months trying to learn what thy call digging deeper, trying  to learn to let the text speak to me, to ask good questions of the text, marking the text which makes no sense to me to have  all this to come up with a good exegesis of the text but still the text to me looks the same. i would pay a good tutor good money just to help me get started if i could find one in my area and i have looked.that's what this means to me. i am 81 years old and bible study has been my hobby for 30 years. no Hebrew or Greek just a 12 grade education.and a lot of good common sense. i don't give up. a couple of years of having the satisfaction of saying man that's it would send me to my grave and Heaven a happy camper

SAM WEST

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 7:31 PM

Sam - May I suggest that you get

The Biblical Hebrew Companion for Bible Software Users: Grammatical Terms Explained for Exegesis  Williams, Michael Work through it slowly and you will gain an ability to understand many of the discussions about the Hebrew. Sorry I don't know an equivalent for Greek but someone may.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 23 2016 7:53 PM

Sam West:

"Are they a good theological tool?" To which I answer "No."

Rick been working hard for several months trying to learn what thy call digging deeper, trying  to learn to let the text speak to me, to ask good questions of the text, marking the text which makes no sense to me to have  all this to come up with a good exegesis of the text but still the text to me looks the same.

Theology depends on exegesis, but it isn't exegesis. Exegesis understands a text, where theology tries to understand what the bigger message of Scripture is. For example, we might study baptism and look at all the texts that say something about it and still not be able to decide what the central purpose of it was in Scripture, who is allowed to be baptized, and whether or not it is a NT fulfillment of OT circumcision (for example). To dig deeper, we'd have to look at the meaning, function and purpose of circumcision in the OT (and possibly compare it with circumcision practices by other surrounding peoples - the Egyptians, for example). We might study what is meant by a household, when the prison guard and his whole household are baptized.  We might also want to look at other washing practices in Judea at the time of Christ (including the purpose of the mikvas around the temple), understanding that the writers and first readers of the New Testament had a common experience of these things. Having looked at all of that, we might begin to ask questions about the purpose of baptism as it's talked about in the New Testament. Sometimes it seems to be an initiation rite, other times a cleansing rite. Is it both? Something else? Does one seem to have priority. You may want to look at how Baptists and Reformed theologians themselves deal with these texts (but not by reading what their opponents say that they say - if you know what I mean).

To do that honestly means setting aside for a while what we've always been told and look at the whole of Scripture to see if there's more to this than what we've been told. Sometimes we get stuck just because we don't realize that we even have assumptions that color our reading of Scripture. That's why it's helpful to read what others have also seen as they read Scripture.

Obviously, I'm using one example that is in many camps a highly controversial one. Some on this forum may even object to some of these possible understandings of baptism I suggested. You might object. But in doing theology you have to suspend your assumptions and consider and study other possibilities. You can't do theology without asking questions, and without questioning your assumptions. We live in world very, very different from the one the Bible was written in. We can expect to get it wrong, or at least not quite right, once in a while.

If you want another challenge, you could take on the the cessationist vs continuationist debate (regarding spiritual gifts like tongues and prophecy, healing, etc.). You could look at how grace and moral law intersect and diverge, and how they relate to each other. I've spent quite a bit of time reflecting on the nature of faith in the New Testament and have come to the conclusion that we shouldn't think of faith as primarily an intellectual thing, but as a whole life kind of thing. I wonder what you would find as you studied how that word is used.

I'm giving a kind of long response, but I hope you understand that I'm trying to stimulate you to think more theologically and not just exegetically. As I said, you need careful exegesis to do theology, but theology is what happens when you've finished exegeting and start asking how the truths you've discovered fit with the rest of the Truth of Scripture.

I hope I'm making sense to you.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 24 2016 2:53 AM

Rich DeRuiter:

Sam West:

"Are they a good theological tool?" To which I answer "No."

Rick been working hard for several months trying to learn what thy call digging deeper, trying  to learn to let the text speak to me, to ask good questions of the text, marking the text which makes no sense to me to have  all this to come up with a good exegesis of the text but still the text to me looks the same.

Theology depends on exegesis, but it isn't exegesis. Exegesis understands a text, where theology tries to understand what the bigger message of Scripture is. For example, we might study baptism and look at all the texts that say something about it and still not be able to decide what the central purpose of it was in Scripture, who is allowed to be baptized, and whether or not it is a NT fulfillment of OT circumcision (for example). To dig deeper, we'd have to look at the meaning, function and purpose of circumcision in the OT (and possibly compare it with circumcision practices by other surrounding peoples - the Egyptians, for example). We might study what is meant by a household, when the prison guard and his whole household are baptized.  We might also want to look at other washing practices in Judea at the time of Christ (including the purpose of the mikvas around the temple), understanding that the writers and first readers of the New Testament had a common experience of these things. Having looked at all of that, we might begin to ask questions about the purpose of baptism as it's talked about in the New Testament. Sometimes it seems to be an initiation rite, other times a cleansing rite. Is it both? Something else? Does one seem to have priority. You may want to look at how Baptists and Reformed theologians themselves deal with these texts (but not by reading what their opponents say that they say - if you know what I mean).

To do that honestly means setting aside for a while what we've always been told and look at the whole of Scripture to see if there's more to this than what we've been told. Sometimes we get stuck just because we don't realize that we even have assumptions that color our reading of Scripture. That's why it's helpful to read what others have also seen as they read Scripture.

Obviously, I'm using one example that is in many camps a highly controversial one. Some on this forum may even object to some of these possible understandings of baptism I suggested. You might object. But in doing theology you have to suspend your assumptions and consider and study other possibilities. You can't do theology without asking questions, and without questioning your assumptions. We live in world very, very different from the one the Bible was written in. We can expect to get it wrong, or at least not quite right, once in a while.

If you want another challenge, you could take on the the cessationist vs continuationist debate (regarding spiritual gifts like tongues and prophecy, healing, etc.). You could look at how grace and moral law intersect and diverge, and how they relate to each other. I've spent quite a bit of time reflecting on the nature of faith in the New Testament and have come to the conclusion that we shouldn't think of faith as primarily an intellectual thing, but as a whole life kind of thing. I wonder what you would find as you studied how that word is used.

I'm giving a kind of long response, but I hope you understand that I'm trying to stimulate you to think more theologically and not just exegetically. As I said, you need careful exegesis to do theology, but theology is what happens when you've finished exegeting and start asking how the truths you've discovered fit with the rest of the Truth of Scripture.

I hope I'm making sense to you.

Rick i love all that. well said and you gave me some ideas i can go with thanks a million.

Posts 401
Sam West | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 24 2016 3:05 AM

MJ. Smith:

Sam - May I suggest that you get

The Biblical Hebrew Companion for Bible Software Users: Grammatical Terms Explained for Exegesis  Williams, Michael Work through it slowly and you will gain an ability to understand many of the discussions about the Hebrew. Sorry I don't know an equivalent for Greek but someone may.

 

MJ ordered the book from Amazon. also i bought the other one you recommend "Grasping Gods Word" and love it also. in fact im trying to get our church to use "Grasping Gods word in our Wednesday night bible study. I Think going through it as a group would be the way to go and give others a chance to learn Gods Word. 

Posts 3313
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 24 2016 7:04 AM

I've always enjoyed MacArthur's SB. If I need a quick short answer I go there.

https://www.logos.com/product/1298/the-macarthur-study-bible 

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