Biblia Hebraica transcripta (BHt, aka "Richter Morphology"): Pending Release

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This post has 47 Replies | 7 Followers

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 7:11 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Try entering "update resources" in the command bar to see if that helps.

Solved! Thank You!

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 8:09 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Besides... it uses transliteration; do you really want it?

The user can hide the transliteration, but there is still one problem: the Hebrew text goes from left to right in BHt.

The user can increase the font size and make the column narrow, then it is almost all right.

You may also check my earlier suggestion in this thread and send a formally positive opinion about it Smile

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 435
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 8:33 AM

Steve Maling:

Thank you very much, Rick, and all who worked on this. It must be a huge relief to have it shipped!

Indeed, thanks to everyone who worked on the BHt and actually got it shipped out for use! It's been a long time coming! It looks like this resource will provide unique and useful data for searching and studying the Hebrew-Aramaic OT. Cheers!

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LogosEmployee

Veli Voipio:
The user can hide the transliteration, but there is still one problem: the Hebrew text goes from left to right in BHt.

This is intentional; it's how the resource was designed to be viewed (see original post in this thread).

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 9:39 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Veli Voipio:
The user can hide the transliteration, but there is still one problem: the Hebrew text goes from left to right in BHt.

This is intentional; it's how the resource was designed to be viewed (see original post in this thread).

Yes. This is because the primary interlinear line is transliteration, which is left-to-right oriented. The interlinear cells follow the language direction of the primary line, even if the primary line is hidden.

Rick Brannan
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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 9:58 AM

As I understand, it is totally possible to make software code that implements what I suggested, or something else that the users like.

The question is whether it is feasible (development_cost / number_of_potential_users)

Just wonder, are there also some legal restrictions?

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 10:31 AM

Veli Voipio:

As I understand, it is totally possible to make software code that implements what I suggested, or something else that the users like.

The question is whether it is feasible (development_cost / number_of_potential_users)

Just wonder, are there also some legal restrictions?

A colleague of mine is fond of saying, "Everywhere is walking distance, if you just have the time."

Supporting text directions for each individual interlinear line would be a significant, major change to the present interlinear model. So, to answer your second question, at present the cost is not feasible. Not saying it will never be, just answering for present. Maybe an item to suggest via User Voice?

Essentially, the non-primary interlinear lines are data associated with a word in the primary line; thus the primary line dictates display direction.

There are similar issues in other resources, such as the Tov MT-LXX alignment. In that resource, the primary line is Hebrew. There is a non-primary Greek text line. Would it be nice to re-order by Greek? Sure. But there is a lot of "walking distance" between there and where we presently are.

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 10:40 AM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):

Veli Voipio:

As I understand, it is totally possible to make software code that implements what I suggested, or something else that the users like.

The question is whether it is feasible (development_cost / number_of_potential_users)

Just wonder, are there also some legal restrictions?

A colleague of mine is fond of saying, "Everywhere is walking distance, if you just have the time."

Supporting text directions for each individual interlinear line would be a significant, major change to the present interlinear model. So, to answer your second question, at present the cost is not feasible. Not saying it will never be, just answering for present. Maybe an item to suggest via User Voice?

Essentially, the non-primary interlinear lines are data associated with a word in the primary line; thus the primary line dictates display direction.

There are similar issues in other resources, such as the Tov MT-LXX alignment. In that resource, the primary line is Hebrew. There is a non-primary Greek text line. Would it be nice to re-order by Greek? Sure. But there is a lot of "walking distance" between there and where we presently are.

You should warn the users that there is NO (!) relation between the text you provide in Hebrew characters and the "transliterated" BHt. Richter reconstructs BH vocalization and does not follow the Tiberian Masoretic vocalization. This is one of the main advantages of this project.  

Posts 912
David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 10:44 AM

Veli Voipio:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Besides... it uses transliteration; do you really want it?

The user can hide the transliteration, but there is still one problem: the Hebrew text goes from left to right in BHt.

The user can increase the font size and make the column narrow, then it is almost all right.

You may also check my earlier suggestion in this thread and send a formally positive opinion about it Smile

If the user prefers not to read transliterated text HE SHOULD NOT USE THIS PRODUCT. This product is a transliteration and the text in Hebrew characters which accompanies it, is not related to the transliterated text. There are plenty of other tagged Hebrew texts for those who resist transliterations and have no need for the sophisticated linguistic data. 

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2016 11:25 AM

David Knoll:
Richter reconstructs BH vocalization and does not follow the Tiberian Masoretic vocalization. This is one of the main advantages of this project.

Ok, this makes sense, I did not know it! Embarrassed

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2016 6:35 AM

David Knoll:
If the user prefers not to read transliterated text HE SHOULD NOT USE THIS PRODUCT.

That kind of attitude does not sell well, I think we should promote this product. Any improvements helps Logos in competition and serves also the existing users.

I can live with the transliterated text, but normally the software development continues until the users are happy, thus it is good to say how we feel now.

If I have to do a presentation for a demanding audience I can export a piece of the text and edit so that it looks as needed.

But as I earlier mentioned, it would be good to have a visual filter to show each interlinear cell in one line, and all the information of the cell in that line and perhaps some info from the links added to that same line. And to allow the user to hide selected fields.

That would solve the text flow problem and I think it would be relatively easy to implement.

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2016 6:45 AM

David Knoll:

You should warn the users that there is NO (!) relation between the text you provide in Hebrew characters and the "transliterated" BHt. Richter reconstructs BH vocalization and does not follow the Tiberian Masoretic vocalization. This is one of the main advantages of this project.  

David, et al.,

Do any of you by chance have a key to the transcription scheme that Richter follows that you would be willing to upload to this forum thread? I can't seem to find one in the resource guide, and have so far been unable to locate one online either. 

Posts 8051
LogosEmployee

Veli Voipio:
I can live with the transliterated text, but normally the software development continues until the users are happy, thus it is good to say how we feel now.

This ebook reproduces the existing database of Richter et al. It is not a "software development" feature that we will continually improve in response to user feedback.

Veli Voipio:
If I have to do a presentation for a demanding audience I can export a piece of the text and edit so that it looks as needed.

I'm not exactly sure what you're exporting, but I wonder if it would be better to export from the LHB (or some other Hebrew Bible), then optionally use the Text Converter interactive (if you need transliteration)?

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2016 7:52 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
This ebook reproduces the existing database of Richter et al. It is not a "software development" feature that we will continually improve in response to user feedback.

Yes, but I mean the visual filter is something that could be improved by Logos.

I think it could be useful also with other interlinear resources (particularly those having right-to-left and left-to-right info) when the primary line text flows from top to bottom, and all the cell info is on the same line beside it. It is like an interlinear rotated 90 degrees Cool

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2016 12:26 PM

Fr Devin Roza:

David Knoll:

You should warn the users that there is NO (!) relation between the text you provide in Hebrew characters and the "transliterated" BHt. Richter reconstructs BH vocalization and does not follow the Tiberian Masoretic vocalization. This is one of the main advantages of this project.  

David, et al.,

Do any of you by chance have a key to the transcription scheme that Richter follows that you would be willing to upload to this forum thread? I can't seem to find one in the resource guide, and have so far been unable to locate one online either. 

What you need is this:

http://eos-verlag.de/de_DE/transliteration-und-transkription/

which is copyrighted material. I seem to remember the Genesis volume had a table in the beginning but I am afraid I  probably won't be in the library until Sunday. If no one else has anything to offer in the meantime I'll tell you what I can find in the BHt printed series.

Posts 912
David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2016 12:47 PM

Why don't you hide the text in Hebrew characters, link the resource to LHB and look at the texts side by side? This is how this work was printed...

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 27 2016 1:20 PM

David Knoll:
Why don't you hide the text in Hebrew characters, link the resource to LHB and look at the texts side by side?

That's one way I've done and I also tried some related ideas.

The visual filter "corresponding words" works in LHI as an extra bonus, probably also with many other resources.

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 912
David Knoll | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2016 7:23 PM

Fr Devin Roza:

David Knoll:

You should warn the users that there is NO (!) relation between the text you provide in Hebrew characters and the "transliterated" BHt. Richter reconstructs BH vocalization and does not follow the Tiberian Masoretic vocalization. This is one of the main advantages of this project.  

David, et al.,

Do any of you by chance have a key to the transcription scheme that Richter follows that you would be willing to upload to this forum thread? I can't seem to find one in the resource guide, and have so far been unable to locate one online either. 

There you go. I suggest you also have a look at the full introduction which is only 10 pages long.

7506.Biblia Hebraica transcripta Zeichen-Inventar aus Genesis EOS Verlag St Ottilien 1991.pdf

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Steve Maling | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2016 7:31 PM

Thank you for the link, David.

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 31 2016 11:01 PM

David Knoll:
have a look at the full introduction which is only 10 pages long.

I may have missed something, I could not find exactly that in my files, Logos, or any link to that info - although I've found some other info in all those.

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

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