Rate This App - Tell the World What a Great Company Logos Is

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Posts 91
Anthony Grubb | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Mar 8 2016 5:10 AM

This morning, needing some inspiration to peel back the covers, I turned on my Logos "Bible" and a splash screen came up asking me to rate the app, to let the world know what a great company Logos is, or if there is an issue, to call customer service and let them know.  

My mind was immediately flooded with several thoughts--not exactly what I had hoped would happen when I went to the "Bible"--and so chalk up another point for the neo-Luddites who encourage the use of an Old School hardcopy Bible for most uses.  Nevertheless, I can do one better than calling customer service (who cannot seem to fix the problem with other divisions of the company), so here in written form are my thoughts about Logos and the Logos family of Apps:

1) First of all, it is Logos. It's not Libronix, nor Faithlife.  It was originally Logos, that's how it is referred to by users, and I'm not sure what culture exists that thought another name change would be helpful, or why this is even something I care to or feel compelled to mention.

2) The Logos program for Desktops is amazing, wonderful, everything it is intended to be.  Need I go on? Five stars!

3) Customer service is wonderful, helpful, friendly.  The only time I have found them less than helpful is in resolving a library issue created by the Android App developers and marketing, which keeps trying to market the "King James" to me, which I have already purchased four or five times over in different packages.  Four Stars!

4) In my experience and in my opinion, the Developers of the Android Apps are far less innovative, helpful, and responsive than the rest of the company.  I don't know if I'm on the fringe, but since I always run a search before posting a new topic, I know from what has come up that I have not been alone in most of the the issues I've sought to address, including;

a) as mentioned above in #3, the apps take up my screen trying to get me to purchase the King James Version.  I already own this 4 or 5 times over according to the product labeling.  However, it is in my Library as "Authorized Version."  It now works in my "Bible" app, even lets me download it, but not in Faithlife Study Bible (which I just removed for its own various issues--https://community.logos.com/forums/t/123807.aspx).  As mentioned above, I called Customer Service to get the issue resolved so it would work smoothly and without this in my face each time I use certain apps, but it has not been resolved to my satisfaction. 

b)  the use of a common library directory all Logos-family apps can use to share downloaded resources to preserve precious storage and precious bandwidth for mobile devices.  Several users have addressed this, preferring to load and use several apps for different purposes (Bible for Bible, Vyrso for novels, Noet for Classics, etc.) and as "innovative" as Development is they hold to some ethereal standard that, in effect, means we must use much more storage and bandwidth.  Alternately, Development could have looked beyond the problem as expressed and found another solution: what these users want may not be more apps to save their place in different resources, they want something like the "Layouts" feature from their desktop.  This way they save not only the storage space for the resources, but also for loading multiple apps onto their devices, and still have the functionality they desire.  However, the Development department for the apps does not seem to be as innovative and helpful as the rest of the company.

c) highly destructive elements like allowing the innocuous swipe motion--which is how a user turns pages in this and other apps--to become a weapon of mass destruction in "Notes", immediately deleting them.  In a low light situation, this user unknowingly flipped through several notes and did not see the "Note Deleted - Undo" message, and it took some doing to repair the losses.  Also, it seems clear that the default would not be to immediately delete a note, but to first bring up a dialog like "Delete note?  Are you sure?" and then follow with the "Note Deleted - Undo" dialog--and all this after some event quite different than the standard swipe motion.  Development did respond by allowing us to navigate our other resources up and down instead of swipe, but the fact swipe is harmless and even easy to do accidentally should have meant it was fixed long ago when they were petitioned to fix it.  Instead, I feel they play petty, passive-aggressive games with the expressed needs of the public, and seeking to "win" the argument in these ways, keeping the program the way they want it instead of the way the public needs it, they lose.  

For these reasons, I do not feel the Development department for the apps is as innovative and helpful as the rest of the company, and as such, bring down the grade for the company as a whole--and if I were to rate these apps, for Faithlife Study Bible, it would be 2, and for all others, it would be 3.

Posts 933
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 5:28 AM

Anthony Grubb:
highly destructive elements like allowing the innocuous swipe motion--which is how a user turns pages in this and other apps--to become a weapon of mass destruction in "Notes", immediately deleting them.  In a low light situation, this user unknowingly flipped through several notes and did not see the "Note Deleted - Undo" message, and it took some doing to repair the losses.  Also, it seems clear that the default would not be to immediately delete a note, but to first bring up a dialog like "Delete note?  Are you sure?" and then follow with the "Note Deleted - Undo" dialog--and all this after some event quite different than the standard swipe motion.

I agree. This seems both dangerous and poorly thought out. You might consider starting a new thread in the suggestions forum to highlight exactly what you said here.

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 6:03 AM

I used to dig thru the trail to an app's contact to report bugs. I don't anymore. I'm on the iOS side ... every since the last major update, the bugs demonstrate the user is the new beta team.  Job's demise or coincidence ... even iOS has obvious bugs.

After Logos put their apps into maintenance mode with a bit of this or that, I also put them in maintenance mode. If I see a bug, I don't want to have to deal with Kevin ... better to keep one Logos app not updated.

I will say the Kindle is becoming a disaster, between the versions. I think I use 5 of them  ... what a mess.  Olivetree remains the quiet backwater of good stable design.


Posts 1861
LogosEmployee
Tom Philpot (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 10:25 AM

Anthony Grubb:
2) The Logos program for Desktops is amazing, wonderful, everything it is intended to be.  Need I go on? Five stars!

Anthony Grubb:
Customer service is wonderful, helpful, friendly.

Thanks for those kind words.

Anthony Grubb:
the Developers of the Android Apps are far less innovative, helpful, and responsive than the rest of the company.

Anthony Grubb:
as mentioned above in #3, the apps take up my screen trying to get me to purchase the King James Version.

It is possible to hide the Featured Bibles portion of the home page: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/123807/808716.aspx#808716

That said, we'll look at ways we can make this feature better…

Anthony Grubb:
c) highly destructive elements like allowing the innocuous swipe motion--which is how a user turns pages in this and other apps--to become a weapon of mass destruction in "Notes", immediately deleting them.  

I'll open a case for that. For documents, you can always go to documents.logos.com and undelete them. For individual notes though, there's no user-accessible way to get them back, so that's something we will fix.

Anthony Grubb:
I do not feel the Development department for the apps is as innovative and helpful as the rest of the company

I hope we can work to change your opinion.

Tom

Mobile Development Team Lead

Posts 3044
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 11:44 AM

Tom Philpot (Faithlife):
For documents, you can always go to documents.logos.com and undelete them. For individual notes though, there's no user-accessible way to get them back, so that's something we will fix.

I think that this idea is worth extending to deletions of parts of other user-created documents as well, if practically feasible.

Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 12:10 PM

I never rate it anymore. I get frustrated by it's lack of progress. Or I should say slow progress... They keep it operating within it's parameter's some new features do get added (prayer lists for instance). But at it;s core it;s design for me is far less than ideal for it not offering better offline support, I am told I am in the minority wanting it, but it has me going elsewhere most often when I am on my iPhone or iPad. I had hoped for great strides to be made in the functionality of mobile apps but it seems to be a lower priority (it is on the radar but just under consideration now as it has been for many years). While as mentioned above the desktop is a top notch program it's mobile apps fall closer to the lower end of scale. Some companies have been better at both but most have a far stronger one or other. One I use a lot on my phone/tablet is nearly ideal there... but when you get it to it's desktop it is virtually useless beyond a basic reader. So I do not rate it because I hope it to get better and do not wish to give a rating leaving others to search elsewhere without giving it a chance.

-Dan

Posts 180
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 12:37 PM

Dan Francis:
But at it;s core it;s design for me is far less than ideal for it not offering better offline support, I am told I am in the minority wanting it, but it has me going elsewhere most often when I am on my iPhone or iPad.
I was gonna abstain from whining, since they obviously have little to no interest in addressing this issue. I too require access to my library offline, on a portable machine. I chose a windows based tablet because, as you mentioned, The desktop software is far better, and can be run on these devices. Albeit with unsatisfactory touch capability. They won't even allow a separate forum for Windows tablet users, so members could address these issues on their own. Keep in mind they still have a Windows app  forum. (Even though they have discontinued support for that app.) Now i know this does not address your concern directly, but if the touch issues were fixed, it would offer another viable option for portable offline access.

Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 4:24 PM

Paul C:
]I was gonna abstain from whining

And you are likely the wiser for it.... but I cannot help tilt at windmills... I know FL looses customers because of it. FL still has the largest library but others are catching up and have better mobile options. I know it likely will not make a difference but there is always the hope that minds may change.

-Dan

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 4:47 PM

Paul C:
I too require access to my library offline, on a portable machine.

Just to clarify, access to your library offline is already supported if you download your library locally.  What isn't supported offline are the Guides and Word Lookup.

Please vote on UserVoice for what you'd like to see in the app: https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/filters/top 

Posts 180
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 7:04 PM

Kevin Byford (Faithlife):
Just to clarify, access to your library offline is already supported if you download your library locally.  What isn't supported offline are the Guides and Word Lookup.
Thanks for your reply. However, in my view, it just supports my assertion that a Windows based tablet is more useful since one can utilize guides and lookups. Again,  I appreciate your input, but you didn't comment on the touch functionality, or a separate forum. I see Faithlife employees committing to improve mobile apps, but no one seems to even acknowledge the issues when attempting to use Logos on Windows based tablets.
Tom Philpot (Faithlife):
I hope we can work to change your opinion.
So much for me not whining. Stick out tongue

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 7:18 PM

Paul C:

Kevin Byford (Faithlife):
Just to clarify, access to your library offline is already supported if you download your library locally.  What isn't supported offline are the Guides and Word Lookup.
Thanks for your reply. However, in my view, it just supports my assertion that a Windows based tablet is more useful since one can utilize guides and lookups. Again,  I appreciate your input, but you didn't comment on the touch functionality, or a separate forum. I see Faithlife employees committing to mobile apps, but no one seems to even acknowledge the issues with Windows based tablets.
Tom Philpot (Faithlife):
I hope we can work to change your opinion.

Paul, I didn't comment on Windows touch issues or a separate forum because I am on the iOS/Android mobile team and I don't have the authority to create a new forum.  The only reason I'm responding here in this General forum is that the complaints were related to the mobile Android app.  

Have you tried creating a new post either in the Suggestions forum or in the Logos 6 forum (since the version of Logos that runs on Windows Tablets is Logos 6 Desktop)?

Posts 8006
LogosEmployee

Paul C:
I chose a windows based tablet because, as you mentioned, The desktop software is far better, and can be run on these devices. Albeit with unsatisfactory touch capability. They won't even allow a separate forum for Windows tablet users, so members could address these issues on their own.

We're aware of touch limitations and frustrations in Logos 6 on Windows tablets. The UserVoice suggestion at https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-6/suggestions/619605-focus-on-tablet-and-touchscreen-features will be updated when there are updates.

At the moment, we think that discussion of Logos 6 on a Windows tablet still fits best in the Logos 6 forum.

Posts 4264
LogosEmployee
Kevin Byford (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 8:16 PM

The Mobile Dev team uses this Mobile UserVoice Site to help us understand customer suggestions and needs regarding the iOS/Android apps.  We try to listen, be helpful and responsive but sometimes issues fall through the cracks so I went through UserVoice tonight just to check up on customer suggestions.

Completed: 43 - https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/status/885855 

Started: 10 - https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/status/885854 

Planned: 1 - https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/status/885853 

Under Review: 15 - https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/status/885852 

Declined: 19 - https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/status/885856 

     Reasons for suggestions being "declined":
      - Duplicate suggestions: 8
      - Bug reports (instead of suggestions): 3
      - Already available in the app: 2
      - Reports based on user error: 4
      - Actually declined: 2

If there's a mobile app bug or something you think is simply wrong, please let us know about it on the Android or iOS forums and/or through Customer Support.

We'll try to do better but communication is key, so please post on the forums if possible.  Anthony, I haven't seen any mobile issues mentioned by you on the forums in over a year; I would encourage you to please post right away if there are any issues you might find deserving of a post.  If we don't know about it, it's really hard for us to fix it.

Posts 5249
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 9:07 PM

Thank you for the update. I know that I make noise about the same thing, but I do try to also acknowledge improvements are there some larger than others, I am thankful for all your hard work and realize that my main request is a major under the hood thing, and not something your teams good release tomorrow if you really wanted. We live in an instant world, as I pointed out in another forum 6.5 years may seem like a long time to wait but in the grand scheme it not. The direction of the mobile apps will go in directions that are obviously best for FL, and as you pointed out there may be a small vocal group looking for offline lookup/simple passage guides I know if everyone like me placed 3 votes there it could be as few as 130... making up the over 400 requests. 

-Dan

Posts 180
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 8 2016 9:24 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
We're aware of touch limitations and frustrations in Logos 6 on Windows tablets.
Thanks for at least acknowledging the problem and making your priorities clear. The 2010 uservoice suggestion shows the lack of urgency.

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 9 2016 9:25 AM

Anthony Grubb:
1) First of all, it is Logos. It's not Libronix, nor Faithlife.  It was originally Logos, that's how it is referred to by users, and I'm not sure what culture exists that thought another name change would be helpful, or why this is even something I care to or feel compelled to mention.

I couldn't agree more.  The brand shift to Faithlife is foolish and a mistake, in my opinion.  Do you think Coca Cola is going to change its name?

What I want from Logos is to become more touch screen friendly on my Surface Pro. 

In addition, I want everything important to work off line. 

I am more interested in the resources offered than other new features.

 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 3044
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 9 2016 10:11 AM

Michael Childs:
Anthony Grubb:
1) First of all, it is Logos. It's not Libronix, nor Faithlife.  It was originally Logos, that's how it is referred to by users, and I'm not sure what culture exists that thought another name change would be helpful, or why this is even something I care to or feel compelled to mention.
I couldn't agree more.  The brand shift to Faithlife is foolish and a mistake, in my opinion.

If you were a Verbum user, or a Noet user, or a Vyrso user, or a Proclaim user, or a Bible Study Magazine subscriber, or a ChristianDiscourse user, or a Lexham Press physical book customer, calling Faithlife "Logos" wouldn't make sense to you. Faithlife isn't just Logos anymore, and you would be very aware of that. 

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