How to make this stuff work.

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Posts 20
David Roth | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Mar 19 2016 12:02 PM

Does anybody actually use Logos?  I find it utterly impossible.  I took a class. No help   Watch videos, they say.  It shows me stuff I know.  And it is still useless.  Buy more stuff.  I have lots of stuff.

I have just quit.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 12:06 PM

Hi David - and welcome to the forums

David Roth:

Does anybody actually use Logos?  I find it utterly impossible.  I took a class. No help   Watch videos, they say.  It shows me stuff I know.  And it is still useless.  Buy more stuff.  I have lots of stuff.

I have just quit.

Sorry to hear this.

To answer one of your questions I use the software frequently. I was using it for several hours today preparing for some Easter sermons and found it hugely helpful.

But I am aware that there is a steep learning curve in getting to understand some of the functionality.

Are there some specific issues / questions we could help you with?

Graham

Posts 20
David Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 12:14 PM

Thank you, but I just don't know.   When I click on things instead of inserting the passage I am working on, it either brings up an old passage, or changes

the page of the stuff I did want.   It finds stuff, but never what I want or need, and I supposedly have 2800 books of something.   I don't know the specific problems or how to describe them.  

But I appreciate your offer.  I probably shouldn't have posted, since I can't tell the problem. 

Again.  Thank you very much.

Posts 919
David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 12:25 PM

You are obviously frustrated unfortunately.Sad

Are you familiar with the (free) 30 day training available at https://www.logos.com/30-day-training ? Just by spending 30 minutes a day for 30 days with the program will quickly teach you how to master the software

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 12:28 PM

David Roth:
I don't know the specific problems or how to describe them.  

Welcome David. Your comments remind me of sometimes how my body feels when I experience a health issue that is new. Words just seem inadequate but perhaps you could use a specific example of one thing that you tried but could not get to work.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 12:43 PM

David Roth:
Does anybody actually use Logos?

Welcome Big Smile

Yes.  Thankful for visual filter highlighting so can see "range" of Greek verbal expression in English, Greek, and Spanish Bibles with appropriate tagging.

David Roth:

When I click on things instead of inserting the passage I am working on, it either brings up an old passage, or changes the page of the stuff I did want. 

Picture is worth 1,000 words; Logos wiki has => https://wiki.logos.com/Screenshot so would like to try replicating frustration.

Personally remembering an old lesson learned with Logos 4 was click once followed by waiting since more clicks caused confusion.  Logos 6 responsiveness has improved plus Thankful for Solid State Disk (SSD).

Thankful for many friendly forum discussions; have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn.  Using Logos effectively takes practice and use.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 20
David Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 12:54 PM

Ok.  Just now I put Luke 23 in the Bible passage thing.   I was reading the text, and wanted to read the whole chapter.  I go to layouts to change to my ESV bible.  And after a second or two it does, but it opens to Genesis something.  Fortunately I knew the cite of the passage I want to read. But it just does goofy stuff like this.

Posts 8601
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 1:19 PM

David Roth:
Just now I put Luke 23 in the Bible passage thing.   I was reading the text, and wanted to read the whole chapter.  I go to layouts to change to my ESV bible. 

I understand.  Unfortunately you were attempting to use the wrong tool to accomplish your task.  You can't turn a bolt with a hammer, but that doesn't mean the hammer is broken.  

In order to add the ESV to what you were doing (reading Luke 23) you could click on the library icon (looks like an open book) at the top left of your screen, type ESV into the find dialog and open your bible.  There are at least three other ways of doing the same thing, but opening an additional book to match your current reference can be done with the library.  

Instead, by using layouts you asked the program to load a formerly saved layout which included the Genesis reference it was at when you last saved it.  

To be clear: Layouts will replace everything you are currently doing with a whole new layout according to where you saved it last.  The Library will add a book to what you are currently doing.

I will reiterate David Carter's great suggestion that you take the 30 day training:  https://www.logos.com/30-day-training .

That training will walk you through what the tools are and what they can do.

Additionally, please feel free to use these forums to ask a question, we'll try to answer it.

Truth Is Still Truth Even if You Don't Believe It

Check the Wiki

Warning: Sarcasm is my love language. I may inadvertently express my love to you.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 1:19 PM

David Roth:
Ok.  Just now I put Luke 23 in the Bible passage thing.   I was reading the text, and wanted to read the whole chapter.  I go to layouts to change to my ESV bible.  And after a second or two it does, but it opens to Genesis something.  Fortunately I knew the cite of the passage I want to read. But it just does goofy stuff like this.

Layouts are designed to capture your work so you can pick up exactly where you left off. So if you saved a layout at Genesis, that's where it returns.

You should go to the Library to open new books, or use the Parallel Resource menu to change Bible versions without opening a new resource.

I don't know what videos you've already watched, but as others have said, the 30 Day Training is great for beginners. Or try the QuickStart Guide that you've probably got in Logos.

Posts 20
David Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 1:32 PM

TCBlack:

David Roth:
Just now I put Luke 23 in the Bible passage thing.   I was reading the text, and wanted to read the whole chapter.  I go to layouts to change to my ESV bible. 

I understand.  Unfortunately you were attempting to use the wrong tool to accomplish your task.  You can't turn a bolt with a hammer, but that doesn't mean the hammer is broken.  

In order to add the ESV to what you were doing (reading Luke 23) you could click on the library icon (looks like an open book) at the top left of your screen, type ESV into the find dialog and open your bible.  There are at least three other ways of doing the same thing, but opening an additional book to match your current reference can be done with the library.  

Instead, by using layouts you asked the program to load a formerly saved layout which included the Genesis reference it was at when you last saved it.  

To be clear: Layouts will replace everything you are currently doing with a whole new layout according to where you saved it last.  The Library will add a book to what you are currently doing.

I will reiterate David Carter's great suggestion that you take the 30 day training:  https://www.logos.com/30-day-training .

That training will walk you through what the tools are and what they can do.

Additionally, please feel free to use these forums to ask a question, we'll try to answer it.

Thank you, TC.  That is most helpful.   Why in the world there is no manual, I don't know.  Thanks again.

Posts 20
David Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 1:38 PM

Mark Barnes:

David Roth:
Ok.  Just now I put Luke 23 in the Bible passage thing.   I was reading the text, and wanted to read the whole chapter.  I go to layouts to change to my ESV bible.  And after a second or two it does, but it opens to Genesis something.  Fortunately I knew the cite of the passage I want to read. But it just does goofy stuff like this.

Layouts are designed to capture your work so you can pick up exactly where you left off. So if you saved a layout at Genesis, that's where it returns.

You should go to the Library to open new books, or use the Parallel Resource menu to change Bible versions without opening a new resource.

I don't know what videos you've already watched, but as others have said, the 30 Day Training is great for beginners. Or try the QuickStart Guide that you've probably got in Logos.

I have quick started all I can stand.  But thank you for the kindness of your reply.  I will try the Library thing, although it usually give me stuff I don't want either.  Again, sincere thanks.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 3:10 PM

David Roth:
I will try the Library thing, although it usually give me stuff I don't want either

Library can be filtered to find relevant resource(s).  For example, filtering for manual

type:manual

includes Logos 6 Help

Logos 6 Help includes Library information plus much more:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 611
Dave Thawley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 3:48 PM

I can sympathise with you here. Logos is bewildering to start with but once you get using it you will see what it can really do. Its great for just reading books - with things like an information panel you can hover over any world and Logos searches the meaning for you. But it can do so so much more. All the data is interlinked so you can jump from one  book to another at the right place, you can search out original text meanings at a touch of a button, find details of phrases, search any commentaries you have from a specific place in your bible . For me logos is complex so the complexity has to attributes - it means you need to dedicate time to learn it but the time is an investment , once the time has been invested it will pay you back in orders of magnitudes.  I bought a set of videos from learnlogos.com which shows in baby steps how to fully use the software. I would really recommend this if yo are like I was because it taught me a load. Also I'll reiterate the reiteration about the 30 day course (free) from logos - this is fantastic and teaches how to use the software for in depth bible study. It really is good and well worth the time spent on it. Good luck 

Posts 2054
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 4:49 PM

My daddy had a Farmall A, the first tractor I learned to drive.  It was fairly easy to drive and I was fascinated by the throttle control, choke, brakes, clutch.  There were some hydraulic controls as well for the belly scraper.  I started out in first gear.  Daddy made me keep it there.  Eventually I got the hang of it.  Before long  I drove it like Jehu, furiously.  Popped wheelies.  Got it up on two wheels.     Dad didn't know that.  Still doesn't.  With some choke and throttle adjustment, it would even blow smoke rings.  My dad did teach me how to do that.

Once I proved I could maneuver backwards through some ponderosa stumps, with a trailer, dad graduated me to the International 606 and on from there.

Not long ago, after some training, my son let me drive his tractor--a huge Caterpillar.  I had no idea what to do with all those electronics.  No idea how to drive the tractor.  But with his help I could make it go a little.  Sadly I never progressed beyond that point (it isn't my line of work).

Logos is like that.  It isn't your Farmall A.  It is your Caterpillar.  It can do amazing things, so much you may never master all of it.  In time, you will get skilled with a lot of it--the parts that serve your needs.  The nice thing is that you aren't limited by what you already know.  You can just keep growing.

I actually gave up on Logos years ago a couple times.  It just seemed too hard, when I was in a hurry.  I still wish Logos would make a "Learners Mode."   My children all have Logos, but seldom use it.  They are all so busy and they just can't clear that first hurdle of quick-easy-find-what-you-want.  I think that is a pity.

Then a good friend kindly reminded me a few times that I really was missing something valuable.   So I started through forums and Wiki,  through Mark Barnes' and other's videos.  I discovered Mr. Fallahee at Learnlogos.com .  I was hooked.  Or maybe I should say "hitched."  Now Logos flows beautifully.  Without thinking my hands run over the console instinctively adjusting, tweaking, opening, closing, raising, lowering--oh, wait...this isn't the caterpiller.  And yet almost every day it seems I learn something new with Logos.

Wow!  That got long.  If you read all the way to here, you can tell how much I love Logos.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 5:10 PM

Gao Lu:
Logos is like that.  It isn't your Farmall A.  It is your Caterpillar.  It can do amazing things, so much you may never master all of it.  In time, you will get skilled with a lot of it--the parts that serve your needs.  The nice thing is that you aren't limited by what you already know.  You can just keep growing.

What a great illustration. Thanks for sharing your story.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 5:40 PM

Hi Mr. Roth

Keep working at it. A powerful tool.  I agree things could be simpler.  May God help us both to find time to learn to use Logos effectively.

The forums help me use it better but as I try to use the software myself I have found - even after years of occasional use and tinkering with it- it is clearly NOT tailored for the common soul in the pew or at a Group Bible study but more for original language intensive people and researchers (just my general impression).

I am praying they will overhaul Logos with some very basic functionality with some pre-designed layouts/content.  Dare I say it - we need a Simple Mode that works right when we turn it on for basic functions - including (gulp) a more useful homepage.

I would be simply adrift without the kind people in the forums.  May you be blessed in here as I have (and yes as you use this tool to share God's Word with others).

Posts 20
David Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 6:33 PM

Thanks for all the replies and helpful suggestions.  I will just have to not let frustration rule the day.

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Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 19 2016 6:48 PM

David Roth:
It finds stuff, but never what I want or need, and I supposedly have 2800 books of something.   I don't know the specific problems or how to describe them.  

Let's start back a bit ... part of your problem is that with many resources, Logos is showing you all sorts of things you don't yet want. I wish there was an easy way to get Logos to behave as if 6-8 resources were all you had ... and then add to that group in a disciplined manner so that you could learn additional functions at the same time you added the resource to support them. If we could do that, we could show you that Logos is not inherently difficult - our resources and lack of knowledge make it seem difficult.

But since we can't do that, may I offer plan B. Set aside 20 minutes 2-3 times a week to learn Logos. Each time when you sit don't decide what you want to do in your Bible Study. Each time you run into a problem that you don't know how to do in Logos, stop and post on the forums ... explain what you want to do and you'll usually get a prompt answer. Don't try to figure it out or click on things that you think might possibly be related ... if you don't know, ask. And as you will be asking about things you want to do (as opposed to the best guess of Quick Start as to what you want) you should be surprised as how quickly you can learn to do what you need ... later you can worry about what else Logos can do for you.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2851
Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 20 2016 3:02 AM

Good thing is to change your Homepage into a Help/Learn Side. I would just have these on:

So you can concentrate.

The Best Start for me was
http://www.logosbiblesoftwaretraining.com/

Even talks about Logos 4 it's a great Help. Also the 30 Day Bible Challenger. Here you learn to use Logos practical.

Sascha

Posts 61
Dean Stow | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 21 2016 12:43 PM

In my job, I often do computer training.  

I find that the biggest obstacle to learning how to use software is how easy software is to use.

People are frustrated when they can't intuitively know what to do.

This is a power tool.  This is like comparing a hand saw and carpenter's square (i.e. printed Bible & Concordance & Commentaries) to a fully sized table saw with knobs and levers and angled cut capability.  The table saw won't build the rafters for you, but once you learn how to use it, it will help you build more rafters in the same time.

It takes time to learn all of the twiddly bits.  Also, the twiddly bits you want are hidden by the other bits you don't want (at this time).  Break this into pieces representing the features you want to use most.  Pick two or three new things and become comfortable with them... then ad more.

Think of this learning strategy:

Step One : finding out what it will do (i.e. features)

Step Two : pick one to three of these features to start using and learn how to do them while ignoring the rest for now

Step Three : occasionally refresh yourself on Step One and ask yourself, are there any of these features that I am ready to add to my routine.

I, personally, am relatively new to Logos 6.  I am still working my way through Step One using the 30 Day bible challenge.  I am not doing every exercise but I am watching all of the videos, pausing occasionally to try it myself.  It really helps me to pause the video and then immediately go do the thing being demonstrated so I never have to wonder if it is a feature I don't have or if it is a resource I don't have or if I am doing it wrong.

Hang in there ... this will take time to master.  Be proud of incremental skill gains and willing to bite off small pieces.

Please know that I am in the same boat you are and am struggling along.  Please don't take anything I wrote as negative.  I am still finding myself back with my old routine to keep my Bible study habits in place as I am learning my way around.

Good Luck & God Bless

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