Louis Berkhof writing style?

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Posts 166
Anthony | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Apr 8 2016 7:17 AM

Why does Louis write Roman Catholic/Catholicism in this way? Is he so passionately against them to write this way, or is it something else? 

Posts 166
Anthony | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 7:32 AM

LOL - well, R---- C--- is the name of the character in Archibald's book. Redacted for privacy I assume. 

I see my error now,,,EmbarrassedEmbarrassedEmbarrassedEmbarrassedEmbarrassed

This post can be deleted, or left for humor. 

Posts 234
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 7:39 AM

Hi Anthony, 

If you read the context closely, he is not in fact speaking about Roman Catholicism. Instead he is speaking about a person identified only by the initials R.C. in the book by Archibald Alexander - Thoughts on Religious Experience. R.C. is certainly not Roman Catholic, since he is reading solid reformed literature and seeking assurance of faith, also known as assurance of salvation. Assurance of salvation is not possible within Roman Catholicism!  

I always remember my Systematic Theology lecturer asking us which Protestant doctrine of the first Reformers was condemned in the most terrible terms by Roman Caatholics. We all guessed justification by faith alone, or sola scriptura but it was in fact assurance of salvation!

Colin.    

~edit - I see you saw your mistake! I didn't realise it had taken me so long to type. 

Posts 166
Anthony | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 7:48 AM

Ha, yes; if I had spent more than 5 seconds on my assessment I think it may have came to light. Geeked My fiance had a chuckle when I shared it with her. Thanks for the response. 

Colin:
I always remember my Systematic Theology lecturer asking us which Protestant doctrine of the first Reformers was condemned in the most terrible terms by Roman Catholics. We all guessed justification by faith alone, or sola scriptura but it was in fact assurance of salvation!

I find this interesting! I thought this book would be more focused on 'obtaining' an assurance of faith (re-assurance), which it does address; but it is more focused on the question 'is it necessary to/a part of salvation' - and it has been a wholesome read. It does lightly go over the Roman Catholic position in the beginning chapters. I should note he does spell out the words "Roman Catholic" there. Stick out tongue

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 7:54 AM

I laugh at this because when I first read this some time ago I had the same reaction until I read further.

Posts 6401
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 8:12 AM

Colin:

Assurance of salvation is not possible within Roman Catholicism!  

Watch what you say MJ might use her fallacy detective dog to hound you down and prove you wrong πŸ˜‚πŸΆπŸ˜œ

Posts 234
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 8:29 AM

Lol Dal! 

MJ certainly knows much more about Roman Catholicism than I do!

A quick search online turned up this from the Council of Trent.  

"If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema. (Sixth session, Canon XVI)

Posts 6401
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 8:51 AM

Colin:

Lol Dal! 

MJ certainly knows much more about Roman Catholicism than I do!

A quick search online turned up this from the Council of Trent.  

"If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema. (Sixth session, Canon XVI)

LOL I guess 1 John 5:13 hadn't been written yet (special revelation)...πŸ˜πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‡

Posts 26457
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 12:01 PM

From TIP of the day (logic): Knowing - the first step of apologetics

MJ. Smith:

Absolutely everything I say is denied and present in an alternative way by other theorists.

1. Let's start with a Venn diagram "defining" knowledge:

wikipedia: belief:

In this view, knowledge is the intersection of what you believe and what is actually true. However, this allows things that happen to be true that you believe for totally incorrect reasons to be treated as "knowledge" It allows for absurdities such as "I know God exists because I read it in my tea leaves on April 1, 2000." This is obviously not what we want to use with a New Atheist.

So Edmund Gettier in a paper titled 'Is Justified True Belief Knowledge?' modified the diagram to this:

wikipedia: belief:

This limits our knowledge to the portion of the intersection between our beliefs and truth that we can justify.

Which sense of knowing is applicable to 1 John 5:13 and which sense is applicable to "absolute and infallible certainty"?  ... no, I won't even follow the linguistics associated with your statement. Would you prefer a hound or a snarky statement?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 12:05 PM

Colin:
Assurance of salvation is not possible within Roman Catholicism!  
Along with a number of other churches - based as much upon epistemology as theology. You might frame the question by a comparison of the attributes of divine knowledge vs. human knowledge.

The author of a standard dogmatics reference book puts it this way "Ludwig Ott argues that a high moral, human certainty of having sanctifying grace is possible, ... but by no means faith which is believing with divine certainty ..."

End of discussion on grounds it is outside parameters of the forum. But I do have Ott in Verbum - got it before it was pulled due to licensing issues so I could take a shot of search results ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 234
Colin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 8 2016 3:22 PM

Thanks for that MJ - clear and logical as ever. You're right, this is not the place for a discussion but I do find your explanation very interesting and I'm glad the subject came up!  

Shalom,

Colin

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