Faithlife Now Selling Books that Mock God and Promote Atheism

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, May 8 2016 5:10 AM

I was browsing the new titles of Vyrso and ran across this book The Not-So-Intelligent Designer: Why Evolution Explains the Human Body and Intelligent Design Does Not by Abby; Hafer

https://vyrso.com/product/65502/the-not-so-intelligent-designer-why-evolution-explains-the-human-body-and-intelligent-design-does-not 

I understand the need for diverse views but I find it ironic that Logos Now has offered 2 books against Atheism and a Recent blog against atheist while selling a book that support Atheism.  I believe this certainly crosses a line as a Christian company. Maybe this is simply an oversight but I would like some answers.

Just read this overview and let me know if this is appropriate.  

Why do men's testicles hang outside the body? Why does our appendix sometimes explode and kill us? And who does the Designer like better, anyway--us or squid? These and other questions are addressed in The Not-So-Intelligent Designer: Why Evolution Explains the Human Body and Intelligent Design Does Not. Dr. Abby Hafer argues that the human body has many faulty design features that would never have been the choice of an intelligent creator. She also points out that there are other animals that got better body parts, which makes the Designer look a bit strange; discusses the history and politics of Intelligent Design and creationism; reveals animals that shouldn't exist according to Intelligent Design; and disposes of the idea of irreducible complexity. Her points are illustrated with pictures, wit, and erudition. 

This book has come in with the recent flood of Wipf and Stock materials which are very liberal in their theology but I needed to point out this book.  

 

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 5:56 AM

Hey, thanks, John, on the title. That's exactly what I wanted. Here in Sedona we have the geologists, and a strong intelligent design group. The problem is the first group thinks the second group is missing a screw, and the second group wants to out-science the first group (running into the same problems they're questioning).

You're thread title is not accurate if you're saying the books you don't like are a recent Logos entry. Logos is really one of the better places to deconstruct the Christian religion.  Everything from how Israel created their god (as the authors view it), to how the narritives were created. So, the horse is out of the barn, and basically now a large healthy herd.

In the last decade or so the Mormons have followed the same pattern ... publishing in high quality all the documentary weaknesses of their traditions. Why?  Because it strengthens people ... the weaknesses are strongest, when hidden, as you prefer.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 6:00 AM

If I were to get involved in a discussion advocating Intelligent Design it would be helpful to know what some who don't agree with it are saying.

For that reason I think it helpful that it is available 

i don't like the title and the overview is less than "respectful" but that may not mean that the book itself is not useful

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 6:30 AM

Why does the Title on their Website say Vyrso Christian Ebooks?  Maybe they should be honest and remove Christian from their Website.  I just thought this book was a mistake.      

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Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 7:15 AM

A discussion on this will go off topic fast. But there are many who do not find acceptance of Evolution as implying atheism. You may not. But there are many who do - including people who identify as Christian.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 9:55 AM

John Brumett:
I just thought this book was a mistake.

My guess? It was a mistake. It is a theological book (dealing with intelligent design) from an academic theological publisher. How did it end up in Vyrso? Well, I think the publisher isn't one to like "Logos Edition" licensing agreements, so their catalog (which would be better in Logos) ended up in Vyrso by default. When it comes to the books there, there is little oversight... the books are automatically converted. 

Although it was probably a mistake, and <might> get pulled, I am not opposed to the book being in the Logos ecosystem. It would probably be better in a different store than Vyrso... with that I will agree. 

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 11:28 AM

I for one hope it does not get pulled and have bought it just in case it does. The vast majority of Christians on earth have no problem with the Evolution and God's existence. This is not a place for debates of theological nature but most church bodies including the catholic church affirm Evolution does not need to be in opposition to God. This book to me seems more a defence of God than an affirmation of atheism. 

-Dan

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James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 11:39 AM

Dan Francis:

This book to me seems more a defence of God than an affirmation of atheism. 

I have no objection to the book being sold as I can see why it might be of interest to Christians, but I'm interested to know where you heard this. I've been (half-heartedly) googling as I was curious to find out if the author identifies as a Christian/discusses her faith and found nothing of use yet. I'm not doubting you at all - I'm just curious to see what she says.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 12:00 PM

I got the Vyrso one; the Kindle cost more (thank you, Logos!).

The book is actually dedicated to a priest. The author's PhD is on the science side from Oxford.  And some of the reviewers ( positive) are Christian, though not conservative.

The chapter titles are come-ons; conservative bait. Not sure why.

I like it, to see how strong the ID argument is. Being a literalist (Bible), I don't have a lot of patience for the ID'ers, since Jesus gets lost in the message. I prefer staying on message regarding EL (eternal life).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 12:25 PM

I have yet to read the book fully but if people were purposely designed by God and not the product of theistic directed evolution. Why do we have the appendix (remains of secondary stomach system) or why do we have external testicles when creatures like frogs have more protected internal testes. For that matter (not that I am sure of it being in the book) if humanity is the apex of God's design why is it virtually impossible for an Elephant to get cancer but our bodys have much poorer defences. She worked with theologians writing this book and goes to church, I do not have a long bio on her beliefs but I did glean that much out of quick look through the book.

-Dan

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 12:47 PM

John Brumett:
Why do men's testicles hang outside the body?

Seriously, an intelligent designer puts them outside to preserve fertility. And any intelligent doctor would know that. So my guess is either Dr. Abby is just an ignorant PhD or is a dishonest MD.

Any example given against intelligent design might well serve as an example against survival of the fittest. 

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James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 12:53 PM

Dan Francis:

She worked with theologians writing this book and goes to church, I do not have a long bio on her beliefs but I did glean that much out of quick look through the book.

Ah, fair enough. I'll keep looking.

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Randall Cue | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 1:02 PM

Dan Francis:

I have yet to read the book fully but if people were purposely designed by God and not the product of theistic directed evolution. Why do we have the appendix (remains of secondary stomach system) or why do we have external testicles when creatures like frogs have more protected internal testes. For that matter (not that I am sure of it being in the book) if humanity is the apex of God's design why is it virtually impossible for an Elephant to get cancer but our bodys have much poorer defences. She worked with theologians writing this book and goes to church, I do not have a long bio on her beliefs but I did glean that much out of quick look through the book.

-Dan

A better question is how do account for death. If man is the result of evolution (theistic or otherwise) then the Bible's teaching that death is the direct result of sin is in error.

Soli Deo Gloria

Randy

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 1:02 PM

AHA:

Abby Hafer is a speaker, writer and humorist who particularly loves taking on Intelligent Design, Creationism, the politics surrounding them, and science denialism in general.

A few years ago, she realized that Intelligent Design is a political pressure group, not a scientific issue. With this figured out, she realized that what we need are political-style arguments in defense of evolution. Her presentations contain bulletproof science, but are short, easy to understand, easy to repeat, and make the opposition look bad. She uses humor to puncture bad arguments. Crucial questions are raised, such as "Why do mens' testicles have such a bad location?" and "Who does God like better, us—or squid? Once she mentions testicles, everybody pays attention.

This thread convinced me to buy a book I would never have seen otherwise as I generally visit Vyrso for a very limited type of resource.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 1:06 PM

Matthew C Jones:
So my guess is either Dr. Abby is just an ignorant PhD or is a dishonest MD.

Please Matthew ... you are smart enough to normally check facts rather provide ill-informed guesses. Don't let your standards slip. [She is a PhD in zoology from Oxford interested in the topic from a epistemological and social perspective.]

alabama24:
My guess? It was a mistake. It is a theological book (dealing with intelligent design) from an academic theological publisher.

If you're saying intelligent design is theology not science .... Or should I say "My guess cancels your guess" Wink

And while we're here may I remind you that science is primarily abductive reasoning, reasoning to the best fit that humanity can devise to predict/explain their sensory data of the world. It has nothing to do - for or against - the untestable relevation of God. It is always provisional i.e. subject to change with the additional of additional information.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 1:09 PM

Matthew her argument is if we are a unique intelligent begin by God why did God not afford us the same level of protection he did with other creatures like frogs. Frogs are plenty fertile. Her argument is that our bodies show signs that God's creation utilized evolution to mould us into what we are. I am not trying to debate for or against ID, just trying to point out her book is poking at weaknesses to the ID claims. I just don't think her book should be rejected as anti-Christian when she holds the views that over a billion other Christians hold. I realize that there would be some who reject RC and others as not true Christians but this is not the place for debates of a theological nature, I was simply trying to point out this book is not an attack on faith, indeed it is an attack on a set of beliefs held dear by sincere brothers and sisters in Christ. But FL is full of books doing the same I know you can find anti-catholic and anti this and that in Logos (and I would guess Vyrso). Faithlife sells books from many sources often attacking different positions. I would hope people would be tolerant enough to not wish a book is banned just because it subscribes to a philosophical/theological view you do not support.

-dan

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 1:25 PM

Randall Cue:
A better question is how do account for death. If man is the result of evolution (theistic or otherwise) then the Bible's teaching that death is the direct result of sin is in error.

This will spiral into going against forum rules so very fast if we go there. I take the Bible as truth, Jesus parables were true even though they were to the best of our knowledge just that stories that told truth. The Garden of Eden story has been referred to by some as a myth to believe in. A story that tells the truth in ways we can understand it. As Barth said "It is not important if the snake actually spoke, it is important what the snake said." I hold to the truth that death and decay are a result of sin I just personally think the eden story is truth told in a way we can grasp it and realize how far we are from God's original goal. I am willing to say I could be wrong, I willing to respect a literal view of Eden but my mind cannot grasp the nature of how creation or the garden would have worked without eventual death of animals and insects and plants for that matter. Nor do I wish to debate it here since this forum is not meant for theological discussions.

-Dan

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 2:05 PM

Dan Francis:
Matthew her argument is if we are a unique intelligent begin by God why did God not afford us the same level of protection he did with other creatures like frogs. Frogs are plenty fertile.

He did. My wife has conceived 19 times (Happy Mother's Day)

Dan Francis:
Her argument is that our bodies show signs that God's creation utilized evolution to mould us into what we are. I am not trying to debate for or against ID, just trying to point out her book is poking at weaknesses to the ID claims.

God knew humans are hot blooded creatures and different from cold blooded frogs.That is why he intelligently designed the testicles to hang outside the body where heat won't damage them. We can not expect every PhD in zoology to know this.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 2:17 PM

Matthew C Jones:
God knew humans are hot blooded creatures and different from cold blooded frogs.That is why he intelligently designed the testicles to hang outside the body where heat won't damage them. We can not expect every PhD in zoology to know this.

God couldn't have designed a cooling system or thermal protection?Confused

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 8 2016 2:43 PM

I guess Paul was mistaken when he said 

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), 1 Ti 1:17.

If you don't believe in a God who is all wise then he doesn't know how to make man and makes mistakes.   

I think we also have to bring into account the effect of the fall on the body and not accuse God for lack of wisdom.   

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